no and i can see that - if i were a street child in damascus who lost my parents in a russian bombing - i might not either.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
as far as the facts are established, she wants to hand herself in to the authorities because she wishes her unborn child to grow up here. It is a valid aim as a mother and a person.
Her political conviction and religious beliefs are not necessarily proven.
Last edited:
you live in france, so this doesnt apply, but: many of the rest of this forum happily lived in a country with blair as prime minster. we all know what he did. we were - if you permit me some poetic freedom - "married" to blair. we were as complicit in his decisions as the isis bride was in whoever she was married to.
What?
How much proof do you want ffs?
Has she got to slaughter a squaddie to prove she ISIS in your eyes? In front of you?
a little more than what is advanced here.
I am pretty certain that if the Home Office brings her home, she will be met by the police.
A choice she voluntarily relinquished, see below.
She's proven them twice, first by going to join IS, fully knowing their nature, second by still believing in their cause. These also preclude her making choices about her future or that of her child in the UK. Since she believes in the IS cause and that form of Islam, shouldn't she have her child brought up according to her beliefs?
.
Not so, a clear 70% of this country were strongly opposed to going to war in Iraq and they held an all time record breaking march against it.
That was emphatically not our choice, Begum's was.
.
This depends on how a child is defined and when they can make decisions. In this respect we are out of step with most of the rest of the world, even with our European neighbours.
Take the age of consent, seven European countries have it at 15, seven others at 14, and one major country at 13. There's even one at 12 and used to be two. Even in the USA three states have it at 14.
And we are two faced on this issue of when important decisions can be made. Our criminal liability commences at 10, and at 14 there is a major step up in liability for criminal actions. At all those young ages very long terms can be and have been spent in prison.
.
her beliefs are hers, she knows what's best for her child and she can well imagine that her child's beliefs will be different from hers.
As she said to the reporter, she'll do whatever is required for her child to be born here.
I take it that she will take her punishment if it comes to that.
We should all respect due process.
For what its worth, I reckon she should be allowed back but face penalty. Thought we stopped sending criminals abroad years ago... but glad I,m not deciding...
This woman has been a member of ISIS for 4 long years, she is showing zero remorse and hasn`t even uttered a word of their condemnation.
This isn`t a holiday camp for the Girl Guides as some in here seem to think. The only reason she is coming crawling back `home` is because that`s her only option.
If ISIS wasn`t getting hammered militarily she would be more than happy to stay put.
These are the type of people that enter the country, indoctrinate the weak-minded and gullible to grab a Transit Van and end the lives of 20 innocents in a London street.
All in the name of Islam.
Yes, lets open the doors and let them all back in.
btw, where were their parents when they were packing their bags - in the 4 years did they attempt to get them back home??
This isn`t a holiday camp for the Girl Guides as some in here seem to think. The only reason she is coming crawling back `home` is because that`s her only option.
If ISIS wasn`t getting hammered militarily she would be more than happy to stay put.
These are the type of people that enter the country, indoctrinate the weak-minded and gullible to grab a Transit Van and end the lives of 20 innocents in a London street.
All in the name of Islam.
Yes, lets open the doors and let them all back in.
btw, where were their parents when they were packing their bags - in the 4 years did they attempt to get them back home??
I think this case is not just about the right of the mother to return to the UK (that's well established, she has the right to come home, subject to TEO, temporary exclusion orders) but also the right of the unborn child.
Does anyone still think that the child should bear responsibilities for the sins of the father?
I was on that march for the good it did.
But Blair and Bush prayed together at camp David. Not Walliams. and God told them it was right thing to do.
So I was wrong.
That isn't at issue, being born in the Middle East isn't a punishment. Where we are born and the circumstances in which we are born are matters of chance, for Begum's child as it was for all of us.
.
well, her choice is clear: if she stays in the refugee camp, her child will be born a refugee.
If she comes home, it does not matter that the Home Office seeks to deport her later, her child will be looked after by her family.
It's a no brainer really, from her point of view.
My view is that she was and possibly still is one of the indoctrinated weak minded and gullible. She would not have been in a position to engage in the erudite and considered analysis on this thread for instance.
You were morally right, and if their God did tell them it was right, then their God was as immoral as they were and are both still.
.
i also went on the march. but that was it. i stayed in the country, didn't do anything further, despite knowing of the wrongs that were being committed. How many of us passively colluded with blair and bush in the same way? That's what i mean with complicit. I'm repeating some of the later posts here - but isis no doubt represent a range of views, which did she agree with and to what degree did she become captive to more extreme views? Much as we happy self indulged middle class sods continued our self serving lives without too much murmur in the heady days of good economic growth (booby trapped as it was) and corrupt destructive foreign policy during the new labour years? we don't know the degree of her collusion. we are prejudging her on the basis of assumptions. That's before we get to the degree to which a muddled fifteen year old can really truly make an informed decision.