Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

Through it all you just can't see, explain, justify or even accept why on earth the EU is so keen to keep us.

Untrue, I've already done so more than once.

They are keen to keep us for the same reasons we Remainers are keen to stay. Greater political and economic strength and influence for each and all.

Brexit loses us any of that, opting to be a minnow in a very large lake filled with pike and surrounded by kingfishers.
.

 

[oldtom]

Previously, in response to suggestions that we can import all that we need from far-flung places around the world, I mentioned that to do so would be to ignore our commitment to reducing the UK's carbon footprint.

The UK signed up to the Paris Agreement in 2016 yet those who talk of sunny uplands, unicorns and promise a better tomorrow are clearly prepared to hasten the planet's destruction by lying to the other countries (about 200) that we will do our bit by reducing our carbon footprint.

In Poland this week, the effects of climate change, greenhouse gases and global warming will once again be discussed while in the UK, we have people desperately seeking to trade with those far-off countries I mentioned instead of our nearest neighbours for selfish reasons.

climate-change-why-are-governments-taking-so-long-to-take-action

Tom

 

[Zlatan]

IDS and others keep going on about control of our money,but surely with the £ ,we already have control of our money.
KudosDave

Yes at moment. Remember all the naysayers when we refused to remain in ERM... Yes, we went bankrupt...(edit, no we didn't)
If we do not leave the Federalisation of EU will simply grow.. Common fiscal policies are absolutely essential as are common tax and benefits. Do your homework Kudos and examine what comes into play in States that can't in EU... For EU to survive another 20 years it must adopt the things mentioned. They must develop more control and common economic policies to stop what happened in Greece. (examine what happens in states when say Otowa struggle) All national stratagies will be doomed, along with ours and Sterling. Fact.
EU must develop into a massive Federal state... or eventually die. At moment Junkers and Co are actually fighting for the very survival of EU.. A point completely missed by present fools, and why? Because May is and always was a remainer at heart. Which is as I predicted 2 years ago. Yes, Leave would win, but we will never get it. We have May's deal... Or remain. A shame, and lost opportunity.
This is not leaving even if May's deal gets through. Which it will not.
Remain, I, m afraid have won. They have fought a nasty, insulting campaign, typified on here with more BS than Farage ever spouted. They have used every trick in book to destroy a golden chance.
Remainers have bought into such a load of propoganda. For goodness sake, get out have a look around EU. Look what's happening. Then look further afield.. The growth of emerging markets is simply staggering. We will have access to that after EU has cherry picked, taken best, sent money to where they want firms... We have no chance now. We have never been popular in EU, we will never be trusted now. In words of Frazer... WE Are Doomed... In EU not out of it.

Kudos
Where do your bikes come from? What happened to Raleigh ?Just remind us.

 

[oldgroaner]

We can get 'fresh' food from as far away as New Zealand - refrigerated transport and all that. Plus just wait for all the wine we can get without those EU tariffs. Hic.

There are rather a lot of people here who can't afford wine,and the notion of refrigerated food being used from the far side of the world when we had it locally supplied in the EU does demonstrate the stupidity of the sort of expediency that Brexit will require.

 

[oldgroaner]

I am happy to agree with the proposition that we are living in what is probably the most golden age....
Reflect why poverty has reduced ,and thank China for it. Their brutal, by our standards 1 child policy stabilised their population base, . The United States of China ,for that is what it is.. with its single market, a single Parliament....
Next it will the United States of India , what then for an island isolated in the NW of Europe, deliberately and by its inhabitants?. Withdrawing from its neighbours, by the narrowest of margins in a dishonest poll?.

Is obviously stupid.

 

[Woosh]

her liberalising of investment and keynian policies more than likely stopped us going bankrupt.

a typo there.
Thatcher's economics was a short term fix. Close government owned loss making businesses, sell state monopolies, welcome foreign money (no question asked where the money came from) during the 'big bang' years and use planning law to push up property price. If you own a 5-bed house in London, you are an instant millionaire.
The result? high level of household endebtedness. It was during her time that I heard for the first time the word 'negative equity'.

 

[flecc]

If we do not leave the Federalisation of EU will simply grow.. Common fiscal policies are absolutely essential as are common tax and benefits. - - - - - All national stratagies will be doomed, along with ours and Sterling. EU must develop into a massive Federal state...

Yes indeed, sooner the better.

Can't you understand how silly it is to threaten us with what we want?

It's like a boss threatening a pay rise if we don't perform better.
.

 

[Danidl]

So you searched and searched Google until you found this pic!

Of a terrorist IRA bomber who planted a bomb in a fish n chip shop, killing himself and murdering 9 innocent men women and children in 1993..

So your point is ????

Maybe you need to look at Paris, Nice etc, etc ??

The country is a cesspit of terrorism!

View attachment 28077

Terrorist incidents map of France 1970-2015. Paris, Corsica and Southwestern France are major places of incidents. A total of 2,616 incidents are plotted

Yep, you take your own advice lol, people in glasshouses blah, blah, blah..

Tommie, I cannot follow the reasoning here,and I would have hoped that you like myself would be very concerned about fueling this meme.
I have difficulty in using the word terrorist for reasons I have previously explained,while still abhorring the deeds.
But there would have been as many incidents in Ireland in the same years and the vast majority inside an area which would have fitted comfortably within any of the French Departments. And within a population base 1/70 the size.. So references to pots and kettles is unhealthy.
I have seen with my own eyes how effective external agitators can be in stirring up a crowd of legitimate protestors into a frenzied killing mob. I have little doubt that that is what is now happening in the Paris streets.

 

[oldgroaner]

The silent majority as I like to say. Who would have thought - before the vote - that it would have been won by 'Leave'? Not me! I was utterly convinced it would go to 'Remain'. I even put some money on it. Which I was happy to lose.

Like the silent majority of people who think the police are right to ram stolen moped riders off their bikes. The silent majority who think its not OK for anybody to be able to decide what sex they are on their passport. You know? That silent majority.

In the meantime - here we deal with the very NOT-silent minority.

You know who you are.

Actually I did expect leave to win and by a bigger margin and forecast that on here before the referendum, as it was obvious that if you feed the population with lies about the EU for forty years and blame failures of Government policy on the EU preventing the Government doing right by the people then that can become the majority view.
Why didn't you come to so obvious a conclusion?

And sure enough you fell for it as did a sufficient number of voters to ensure a marginal win for leave, despite the fact that all the claims made that the EU is at fault can be debunked by reference here

https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/

You do not belong to a "Silent majority" but rather to a "Majority that didn't trouble itself to bother to check the facts"
And then managed to develop a defensive "Victim persona" when challenged with "They didn't know what they were doing"
Few people in the country could claim to have actually done so, including myself, but we actually bothered to check and educate ourselves before, during and after the Referendum, rather than pretending to knowledge we didn't actually have.
And the result of those efforts? No amount of searching has turned up even a shred of evidence to support Brexit as having any prospect of being other than an error of massive proportions.
Please feel free to advance your evidence to contradict that view less the wishful thinking and incorrect facts that usually show up

 

[oldgroaner]

Her social policies perhaps, her struggle against miners perhaps yes but her liberalising of investment and keynian policies more than likely stopped us going bankrupt.
Yes, we had boon and bust but the massive increase in ftse, house prices, and increase in standard of living during her years will never be repeated. Loathe her or hate her, she dragged our economy out of recession caused by labour.(you remember the 3 day week flecc, whilst we were in your beloved EU..) . Labour isn't working was easiest campaign in history for Tories yet leavers put all the increase in our standard of living down to EU. Utter tripe. And you know it is.
How many times do you tell us EU can't be blamed for all our wrongs (just the major ones) yet any improvement you attribute to them. Utter and absolute hypocrisy caused by you buying into the propaganda you accuse leavers of buying.
Our not leaving EU or adopting May's Brino is without doubt the biggest missed opportunity this country has ever had.
Through it all you just can't see, explain, justify or even accept why on earth the EU is so keen to keep us. Leavers know why.
In EU we will simply be that country near France, Germany etc etc. Its a crying shame but on your heads be it when we have zero manufacturing and zero chance of creating one under EU competition rules.. We willsimply be a small helpful contributor to the doomed EU experiment with little say in the complex biased and corrupt EU and no Sterling...

More of the old saying
"If wishes were fishes
All men would dine"
No one is willing or able to make your dream come true. are they?

 

[Zlatan]

Says the poster who disregards the now closed Templehof airport refurbished by the nazis in the 1930s which many architects since have described as the greatest example of airport design and a city airport too!

Not many people know this but our very own Stansted airport was once adjudged to merit a prize from the EU for the designer of the new terminal building, Norman Foster. That was the EU Prize for Contemporary Architecture in 1990.

Tom

Says the poster who rarely posts without insult.

 

[oldgroaner]

Untrue, I've already done so more than once.

They are keen to keep us for the same reasons we Remainers are keen to stay. Greater political and economic strength and influence for each and all.

Brexit loses us any of that, opting to be a minnow in a very large lake filled with pike and surrounded by kingfishers.
.

And with a Conservative government busily prising the plug up that makes the pond hold water so they can sell it off too

 

[oldgroaner]

Says the poster who rarely posts without insult.

Zlatan that post is nothing more than a personal attack, why did you feel you had to make it?

 

[Zlatan]

Untrue, I've already done so more than once.

They are keen to keep us for the same reasons we Remainers are keen to stay. Greater political and economic strength and influence for each and all.

Brexit loses us any of that, opting to be a minnow in a very large lake filled with pike and surrounded by kingfishers.
.

Well we are going to be a minnow controlled by folk with more interest in getting central Europe higher on rich list. They don't care a jot about UK. Look back in history. Read comments on here. We are some backwash other side of LaManche. Listen what Macron thinks. And you call leavers gullable. Good god.
Have a drive around EU and look what has been helped, by whom and to what extent. We are.turning our backs on folk clamouring for a link to UK. (India, Vietnam, and others) But no, we must jump into bed with good old safe France Germany, Luxembourg. They look after us. Utter BS.

 

[oldgroaner]

So you searched and searched Google until you found this pic!

Of a terrorist IRA bomber who planted a bomb in a fish n chip shop, killing himself and murdering 9 innocent men women and children in 1993..

So your point is ????

Maybe you need to look at Paris, Nice etc, etc ??

The country is a cesspit of terrorism!

View attachment 28077

Terrorist incidents map of France 1970-2015. Paris, Corsica and Southwestern France are major places of incidents. A total of 2,616 incidents are plotted

Yep, you take your own advice lol, people in glasshouses blah, blah, blah..

Tommie what is the point of this post, just what is the target and meaning of it? are you saying for instance the French are people we should not want friendly relationships with?
Come on now, lets see you do that, but do it with care..

 

[Woosh]

You do not belong to a "Silent majority" but rather to a "Majority that didn't trouble itself to bother to check the facts"

Leave won partly because of the internet, more specifically, Facebook's technology.
The tech does not particularly favour any political party nor take side, what it does is to create echo chambers where members of a group is fed what the group likes best thus re-enforcing the effectiveness of short, sharp, to the point marketing messages. Thus what is originally a marketing message quickly becomes accepted truth within the group, all caveats disregarded.

As one of the Yellow Vests protesters said so eloquently: with the internet, who needs parliament?

 

[Jennifer Jenkins]

Her social policies perhaps, her struggle against miners perhaps yes but her liberalising of investment and keynian policies more than likely stopped us going bankrupt.
Yes, we had boon and bust but the massive increase in ftse, house prices, and increase in standard of living during her years will never be repeated. Loathe her or hate her, she dragged our economy out of recession caused by labour.(you remember the 3 day week flecc, whilst we were in your beloved EU..) . Labour isn't working was easiest campaign in history for Tories yet leavers put all the increase in our standard of living down to EU. Utter tripe. And you know it is.
How many times do you tell us EU can't be blamed for all our wrongs (just the major ones) yet any improvement you attribute to them. Utter and absolute hypocrisy caused by you buying into the propaganda you accuse leavers of buying.
Our not leaving EU or adopting May's Brino is without doubt the biggest missed opportunity this country has ever had.
Through it all you just can't see, explain, justify or even accept why on earth the EU is so keen to keep us. Leavers know why.
In EU we will simply be that country near France, Germany etc etc. Its a crying shame but on your heads be it when we have zero manufacturing and zero chance of creating one under EU competition rules.. We willsimply be a small helpful contributor to the doomed EU experiment with little say in the complex biased and corrupt EU and no Sterling...

I'm having that wonderful feeling you get when you consider the possibility that you're not alone in the universe.

 

[Jennifer Jenkins]

Brexit doen't come with wages increases as part of the package, does it?

Probably - seeing as we won't be importing cheap labour like we used to.

 

[oldgroaner]

Well we are going to be a minnow controlled by folk with more interest in getting central Europe higher on rich list. They don't care a jot about UK. Look back in history. Read comments on here. We are some backwash other side of LaManche. Listen what Macron thinks. And you call leavers gullable. Good god.
Have a drive around EU and look what has been helped, by whom and to what extent. We are.turning our backs on folk clamouring for a link to UK. (India, Vietnam, and others) But no, we must jump into bed with good old safe France Germany, Luxembourg. They look after us. Utter BS.

No Zlatan, the BS is coming from you, but it does reinforce my point where you insisted that remainers should attempt to convince leavers to come on side, and I maintained that it was a waste of point as they are not willing to see reason.
And in fact this is your second change of mind on the subject, which clearly is only something to argue over from your point of view.
You forget that some of us can look back on changes in Europe from a longer perspective than yours and know what progress has been made since the Second World War.

Let's face it your lifestyle is that of someone wandering around these societies trying to pull a few juicy deals , make a few quick Euros here and there and nothing to do with understanding the fate of ordinary working class people in those societies living normal lives.
You are in fact the epitome of the thing you pretend to despise a "Champagne Socialist"
Every posting you make evidences that point of view

 

[Zlatan]

I'm having that wonderful feeling you get when you consider the possibility that you're not alone in the universe.

Me 2.There are lots of us.. Just keeping quiet at moment.