Brexit, for once some facts.

[oyster]

It’s so often the case that you don’t see the good until it’s taken away.
KudosDave

Someone once put that rather, umm, lyrically:
Big Yellow Taxi
by Joni Mitchell



They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
With a pink hotel *, a boutique
And a swinging hot spot

Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot

 

[oldtom]

did those who voted to stay know what they were voting for. Closer integration/ European Army etc. They will keep taking more and more until wed are just a region and not a country

In my case, I most certainly did. There's a lot of sense in an EU army and closer integration is hugely desirable…..unless one is a nasty racist who just hates to see foreign-born people in their own country.

Every country has some of those but the world is slowly coming to terms with various facets of human nature that were previously despised, frequently criminalised, yet now accepted by greater and greater numbers.

Tom

 

[Fingers]

In my case, I most certainly did. There's a lot of sense in an EU army and closer integration is hugely desirable…..unless one is a nasty racist who just hates to see foreign-born people in their own country.

Every country has some of those but the world is slowly coming to terms with various facets of human nature that were previously despised, frequently criminalised, yet now accepted by greater and greater numbers.

Tom

Hitler wanted a unified Europe too.

 

[oldtom]

Hitler wanted a unified Europe too.

Look, just because you're the famous author of this essential guide to 'Brexit' doesn't mean much around these parts!



I couldn't see how to erase your name from the bottom right corner so you'll just have to live with that…..and your Hitler fantasies.

£7.99 is very reasonable for a paperback, I'm bound to say, but Amazon are generally reasonable in that regard.

Tom

 

[oldtom]

Big Yellow Taxi
by Joni Mitchell

I wish you hadn't mentioned that as I can't get the blasted song out of my head now!

Tom

 

[wheeler]

Hitler wanted a unified Europe too.

As did Churchill, your point is?

wheeler

 

[Kudoscycles]

Hitler wanted a unified Europe too.

Do you realise that many of the ERG group are descendants from the 200 club ,who in 1939 wanted to appease Hitler,these included our King at the time...it was Churchill who realised that Hitler could not be trusted and stood up to Hitler.
Do some homework and Google ‘Central Provident Fund,Singapore’,this is where JRM and Co wants to take us,it will turn the clock back to the 1930’s and workers will be no better than serfs,Amazon is the future!
KudosDave

 

[oyster]

I wish you hadn't mentioned that as I can't get the blasted song out of my head now!

Tom

It will go soon enough. Then you'll realise that you didn't know what you'd got 'till it'd gone.

 

[oyster]

Vote Leave loses legal challenge over Brexit spending breach
Judicial review dismisses attempt to have Electoral Commission ruling thrown out

Dan Sabbagh


Matthew Elliott, the former chief executive of Vote Leave, has claimed the commission was driven by a political agenda. Photograph: Dominic Lipinski/PA
The official pro-Brexit campaign group has lost a judicial review aimed at trying to get an Electoral Commission ruling that it breached spending limits thrown out.

Vote Leave was challenging the findings of a report issued in July that it had exceeded the prescribed £7m limit by channeling funds via another campaign group, but the high court concluded on Wednesday that its case was groundless.

A judgment by Mrs Justice Yip said: “I do not consider that the claimant’s grounds are arguable.” She also dismissed an attempt to claim that the commission did not have the power to investigate the alleged overspending.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/21/vote-leave-loses-legal-challenge-over-brexit-spending-breach

 

[oldgroaner]

did those who voted to stay know what they were voting for. Closer integration/ European Army etc. They will keep taking more and more until wed are just a region and not a country

Very much so! look back for the thread and you will find some of us are not merely keen on the idea of a United States of Europe but regard Brexit as nothing more than a temporary and damaging setback by a malicious political faction, that will simply delay our membership of it and rob us of being a powerful influence within it
A United States of Europe is inevitable, so what the hell are we doing prancing about making fools of ourselves to please a greedy Elite who parasite off the public of this country?
Your logic falls flat on it's face, we are not a country are we, we are a union of countries that is simply on a smaller scale than Europe.

How does your logic deal with that,on the one hand you complain that you don't want to be part of a union of countries, and yet we have belonged to one for hundreds of years.
And within that union we are in fact simply a region, where we can drive from one country to another and move where we live.

Don't you see how utterly ludicrous that makes your statement
"They will keep taking more and more until wed are just a region and not a country"
Have we somehow lost out by belonging to the United Kingdom?

The real tragedy of Brexit is this
Leave voters didn't merely have no idea what they voted for
They also had no idea of how the EU operates, nor even the nature of the Union of Countries they were born in and live in.

 

[oldgroaner]

Matthew Elliott, the former chief executive of Vote Leave, has claimed the commission was driven by a political agenda.

Oh that is a classic, and makes one ask,and why did you spend all that illegal money on a political agenda, you pillock?

 

[oldgroaner]

For those of you who know of Harry Leslie Smith and equally for those who may never have heard of the man, he was admitted to hospital yesterday and is not doing too well.

Here is a report from The Morning Star':

harry-leslie-smith-admitted-into-hospital

A later bulletin said this about his condition:View attachment 27809
Tom

lets hope he pulls through

 

[oldgroaner]

You're like a flat earther. Conspiracy everywhere!

There was absolutely nothing in what Pienarr said that was biased you utter bellend. He's reporting with a UK point of view because guess what. He's reporting to people in the UK.

He's not reporting to some retired traveling sales rep in Spain.

It's as I said before. The 27 are starting to split. Local elections in Spain mean Gibraltar is an issue. Fishing waters have become a new wrinkle. Denmark are concerned UK businesses don't have an advantage over theirs etc.

Try and get news from places that are not here. And stop lying.

Tom.

Click Bait: still attempting to stir up pointless argument

 

[Fingers]

As did Churchill, your point is?

wheeler

A common misconception amongst the true believers.

https://www.ft.com/content/3d6bbabc-7122-11e6-a0c9-1365ce54b926

 

[Fingers]

Do you realise that many of the ERG group are descendants from the 200 club ,who in 1939 wanted to appease Hitler,these included our King at the time...it was Churchill who realised that Hitler could not be trusted and stood up to Hitler.
Do some homework and Google ‘Central Provident Fund,Singapore’,this is where JRM and Co wants to take us,it will turn the clock back to the 1930’s and workers will be no better than serfs,Amazon is the future!
KudosDave

There’s more chance of Tom not lying than Rees Mogg being anything other than the punchline of politics.

 

[Fingers]

There are times I find it very difficult to care about "fair". The rotten referendum was itself unfair. Don't get me wrong, I want everything to be scrupulously fair at all times. But when it isn't on one occasion, it is more difficult to uphold the need for fairness when the reverse could happen.

It does make me chuckle when you lot whinge on and on about unfairness in the referendum. When will the penny drop....Don’t answer that. It never will.

You had EVERY single major political party bar the batshit looneys of UKIP rooting for you. Past prime ministers, celebrity endorsements a leaflet delivered to every single household in Britain saying vote remain.

We had a few nutters and a bus.

And still smashed you! How embarrassing.

 

[flecc]

did those who voted to stay know what they were voting for. Closer integration/ European Army etc. They will keep taking more and more until wed are just a region and not a country

Yes, we knew what we had and wanted to continue with it, and many of us welcomed those possible changes. In my case I wanted the whole package, confident it couldn't be worse than the utterly incompetent and uncaring governments we'd suffered for far too long.

In fact there was every indication we'd be better protected by the EU, amply shown by the many times the EU courts overruled the undoubted wrongs perpetrated by UK government. Also every indication UK governments intended to abuse us further, the insistence on getting rid of our protection of the Human Rights Act being an obvious example.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

A common misconception amongst the true believers.

https://www.ft.com/content/3d6bbabc-7122-11e6-a0c9-1365ce54b926

And an even bigger one of yours as usual

"After all, it was Prime Minister Churchill who announced in June 1940 the ‘Declaration of Union’ between Great Britain and France. With the full backing of his Cabinet, Churchill stated, ‘The two governments declare that France and Great Britain shall no longer be two nations, but one Franco-British Union… Every citizen of France will enjoy immediately citizenship of Great Britain; every British subject will become a citizen of France.’
Mr Farage added, ‘Churchill once said, “If Britain must choose between Europe and the open sea, she must always choose the open sea”. Hardly encouraging words for the Commission.’

(What Mr Farage doesn’t say is that Churchill shouted this remark to the French leader, General Charles de Gaulle, in a raging row on the eve of the Normandy landings in 1944. Churchill loathed de Gaulle and wanted to show loyalty to the US President, Franklin Roosevelt. Churchill also angrily added, ‘Every time I have to choose between you and Roosevelt, I will always choose Roosevelt.’ Also see, ‘D-Day: The Battle for Normandy’ by Antony Beevoir.)

Hundreds of mostly anonymous eurosceptics flocked to the reader’s columns of The Telegraph and other UK newspapers to claim that Churchill would have been on their side, and he would have voted UKIP.

So who’s right?

Well Sir Winston Churchill isn’t here to say, and it’s impossible to know what he would think of the world as it is now, 50 years after his death. But I believe that Nigel Farage is not correct in stating that Churchill’s call for a ‘United States of Europe’ was taken out of context by Barroso; or that Churchill would not have been a fan of political union in Europe. Neither do I believe for a moment that Churchill would vote UKIP, or that he was in any way a ‘eurosceptic’.

 

[flecc]

Hitler wanted a unified Europe too.

Shows nobody is all bad or always wrong.

Only that his methodology was unsuitable.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

It does make me chuckle when you lot whinge on and on about unfairness in the referendum. When will the penny drop....Don’t answer that. It never will.

You had EVERY single major political party bar the batshit looneys of UKIP rooting for you. Past prime ministers, celebrity endorsements a leaflet delivered to every single household in Britain saying vote remain.

We had a few nutters and a bus.

And still smashed you! How embarrassing.

Click Bait: no point in trying to explain things beyond your ability to understand