Brexit, for once some facts.

[vidtek]

I should desist from posting if I were you. You are in a hole you dug for yourself and you know the advice that applies to people in that situation!

The people who wish to remain in the EU know what we have, know what to expect for the foreseeable future and have no illusions as to which side of our bread is buttered.

You have made a fool of yourself with your previous posts but you just can't leave it alone, can you? So, that being the case, please furnish the readers here with the reasons why 'Brexit' will be good for the people of the UK. I, for one, am happy to listen to any persuasive argument but I haven't heard one over the last two and a bit years.

Please tell us how we will be better off, when that will happen, which parts of the UK are likely to see or feel these tangible benefits or, if you can't do any of that, perhaps you could explain exactly why you are here, condemning decent people who want the best for their country now and in the future by being part of a harmonious group of nations able to stand up for itself in a global marketplace?

Keep in mind that the thread is entitled, 'Brexit, for once some facts'.

Tom

Tom- My opinion is as valid as anyone else's. I would not presume to tell anyone to desist from posting on any forum just because I happen to disagree with their point of view. I respect your viewpoint, but you are obviously so narrow-minded that you think no-one is entitled to a contrary view. We all know where that sort of thinking leads, after having the remembrance ceremonies last week.

 

[flecc]

Wrightington, Wigan and Leigh Foundation Trust has begun recruiting hundreds of doctors from India and Pakistan

Well done Brexiters, so this is your version of the mythical £360 millions a week to the NHS:

We stop paying into the EU and spend the money on salaries bringing in the immigrants you want to keep out.
.

 

[Fingers]

Tom- My opinion is as valid as anyone else's. I would not presume to tell anyone to desist from posting on any forum just because I happen to disagree with their point of view. I respect your viewpoint, but you are obviously so narrow-minded that you think no-one is entitled to a contrary view. We all know where that sort of thinking leads, after having the remembrance ceremonies last week.

Don't take this old boy too seriously. He's living in the past. Bless him.

Poor old feller. At least him on here typing out pages and pages of insults and nonsense keeps him off the streets and away from folk in the real world.

 

[Fingers]

Well done Brexiters, so this is your version of the mythical £360 millions a week to the NHS:

We stop paying into the EU and spend the money on salaries bringing in the immigrants you want to keep out.
.

Who said we wanted to keep Doctors and nurses out?

Thats a stupid thing to say. I can't believe anyone would say that.

You true believers will spin anything into a negative to suit your narrow viewpoint.

 

[flecc]

Who said we wanted to keep Doctors and nurses out?

I didn't say you did.

Brexiters were overwhelmingly for cutting immigration. You are the one now spinning by being selective about their occupations.

Immigrants are still immigrants, whatever their occupation.

And as for narrow viewpoint, that's rich coming from a Brexiter, the very embodiment of narrow mindedness. It's my open mindedness that welcomes the breadth implicit in EU membership and immigration.
.

 

[daveboy]

I didn't say you did.

Brexiters were overwhelmingly for cutting immigration. That's stupid. You are the one spinning by being selective about their occupations.

Immigrants are still immigrants, whatever their occupation.

And as for narrow viewpoint, that's rich coming from a Brexiter, the very embodiment of narrow mindedness. It's my open mindedness that welcomes the breadth implicit in EU membership and immigration.
.

Selective about their occupations, What like Doctors YES and Romanian pickpockets NO .

 

[Fingers]

I didn't say you did.

Brexiters were overwhelmingly for cutting immigration. You are the one now spinning by being selective about their occupations.

Immigrants are still immigrants, whatever their occupation.

And as for narrow viewpoint, that's rich coming from a Brexiter, the very embodiment of narrow mindedness. It's my open mindedness that welcomes the breadth implicit in EU membership and immigration.
.

Balderdash.

There's a huge difference between 15 thousand Polish plumbers arriving in Peterborough and sending child benefit home and 5 thousand Romanian labourers turning up in Lincoln over a 12 month period to 500 trained Phillipino nurses going to a hospital trust and 150 trained Indian jumior doctors coming over.

There is a huge difference and you know it.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Selective about their occupations, What like Doctors YES and Romanian pickpockets NO .

That would be Albanian pickpockets these days. Times change!

 

[oldtom]

I can't reveal the source, though it is an MP, but I just heard from a mutual friend that the Vauxhall plant at Luton will close in the new year. Perhaps not too many know this but GM, the owner of Opel & Vauxhall for about a hundred years, sold it to the PSA group last year. PSA, of course, are very much a European outfit.

Perhaps that is no big surprise but it is certainly going to spoil Christmas for a whole lot of people in an area not exactly overloaded with employment opportunities.

An early bounty from 'Brexit'?

Tom

 

[anotherkiwi]

Balderdash.

There's a huge difference between 15 thousand Polish plumbers arriving in Peterborough and sending child benefit home and 5 thousand Romanian labourers turning up in Lincoln over a 12 month period to 500 trained Phillipino nurses going to a hospital trust and 150 trained Indian jumior doctors coming over.

There is a huge difference and you know it.

In fact they don't send the child benefit home, they live off that and send wages home...

How come you don't have enough English plumbers and nurses? Or should that be Irish plumbers and Welsh nurses?

 

[Fingers]

In fact they don't send the child benefit home, they live off that and send wages home...

How come you don't have enough English plumbers and nurses? Or should that be Irish plumbers and Welsh nurses?

We do. Slowly their wages are coming back to a liveable level now.

The undercutting was extreme.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I can't reveal the source, though it is an MP, but I just heard from a mutual friend that the Vauxhall plant at Luton will close in the new year. Perhaps not too many know this but GM, the owner of Opel & Vauxhall for about a hundred years, sold it to the PSA group last year. PSA, of course, are very much a European outfit.

Perhaps that is no big surprise but it is certainly going to spoil Christmas for a whole lot of people in an area not exactly overloaded with employment opportunities.

An early bounty from 'Brexit'?

Tom

They are also fixing xmas for German workers at the Opel factory apparently. Bloody French! And Chinese...

 

[Fingers]

I can't reveal the source, though it is an MP, but I just heard from a mutual friend that the Vauxhall plant at Luton will close in the new year. Perhaps not too many know this but GM, the owner of Opel & Vauxhall for about a hundred years, sold it to the PSA group last year. PSA, of course, are very much a European outfit.

Perhaps that is no big surprise but it is certainly going to spoil Christmas for a whole lot of people in an area not exactly overloaded with employment opportunities.

An early bounty from 'Brexit'?

Tom

You really are a massive liar arn't you Tom.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-5577673/Vauxhalls-van-plant-Luton-substantial-production-boost.html

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/apr/04/vauxhall-luton-plant-to-increase-production-despite-brexit-fears

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/vauxhall/101651/vauxhall-s-luton-plant-to-build-the-next-vivaro-van-plus-its-peugeot-and-citroen

What do you get out of it?

 

[daveboy]

At the risk of repeating myself.
Local to me we have one of the biggest carrot farms in the country and you are right most of the people that work there are Polish.
They are all on minimum wage and zero hours contracts. If it rains he sends them home without pay. If a machine breaks down he sends them home without pay. He owns most of the houses nearby and rents them back to the
Polish workers (half a dozen adults in one house) Do you blame British
workers for not wanting jobs under these conditions ?
The only workers on full time contracts are the fitters and Electricians, He treats them ok because he has to.
He treats the Polish workers like crap because he can.

 

[anotherkiwi]

You really are a massive liar arn't you Tom.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-5577673/Vauxhalls-van-plant-Luton-substantial-production-boost.html

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/apr/04/vauxhall-luton-plant-to-increase-production-despite-brexit-fears

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/vauxhall/101651/vauxhall-s-luton-plant-to-build-the-next-vivaro-van-plus-its-peugeot-and-citroen

What do you get out of it?

Dates:

4 Apr, 2018

Things have moved on since then. PSA promised the German government no jobs would be lost in Germany too...

 

[oldgroaner]

Tom- My opinion is as valid as anyone else's. I would not presume to tell anyone to desist from posting on any forum just because I happen to disagree with their point of view. I respect your viewpoint, but you are obviously so narrow-minded that you think no-one is entitled to a contrary view. We all know where that sort of thinking leads, after having the remembrance ceremonies last week.

Was Tom responding to this previous post of yours?
"Most of you rabid remainers claiming to know what will happen-you are the deluded ones"
Would you care to explain why you object to being vilified but see nothing wrong in dishing it out, rather than provide an argument to support the leave faction.

What is the point of posting on the forum if you don't intend to do that?

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

 

[oldgroaner]

Don't take this old boy too seriously. He's living in the past. Bless him.

Poor old feller. At least him on here typing out pages and pages of insults and nonsense keeps him off the streets and away from folk in the real world.

Still unable to post in support of brexit?
Poor old you, when in the absence of being able to argue convincingly you are reduced to resorting to simple bluster?

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

 

[oldgroaner]

We do. Slowly their wages are coming back to a liveable level now.

The undercutting was extreme.

No it wasn't and where did you get this notion from?

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

 

[Wicky]

No.

Did you read all the article?

I did - and this quote stood out from Delaney > "I was, by then, aware of RT’s reputation. The channel is part-funded by the Russian state"

Delaney / his production company was paid by RT to produce programmes and in turn folk were paid an appearance fee. So Delaney while independant in choosing the skits, wasn't financially "totally independent" from RT > Russian State. Not sure what your definition is of totally but you seem to be back tracking.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Don't normally like cut n paste but this article says all.....

This much we know: whatever the stories of the millions of people who ended up backing it, Brexit originated in the failure of successive Conservative leaders to adequately deal with a tribe of uncontrollable Tory ideologues, and in the ingrained tendency of post-Thatcher Conservatives to play fast and loose with the livelihoods and security of the rest of us. In an awful instance of irony, the misery and resentment sown by the deindustralisation the Tories accelerated in the 1980s and the austerity they pushed on the country 30 years later were big reasons why so many people decided to vote leave. What also helped was a surreal campaign of lies and disinformation, both during and after the referendum campaign, waged by entitled people with their eyes only on the main chance.

These things are part of a vast charge sheet not only against the modern Conservative party, but an alliance of old and new money that has set the basic terms of British politics for the past 40 years. Jacob Rees-Mogg and Boris Johnson were educated at the same exclusive school as the prime minister whose idiotic decision to hold a referendum gave them their opportunity. Nigel Farage and Arron Banks are archetypal examples of the kind of spivs who were given licence to do as they pleased in the 80s. For all their absurd bleating about “elites”, we all know what these people represent: the two faces of the modern English ruling class, who have long combined to be nothing but trouble.


While some of us have been spitting feathers about the deceptions perpetrated by rightwing leavers, Jeremy Corbyn has seemed barely interested. Is there some kind of awful equivalence between the rightwing Brexiteers, who see national crisis as the ideal seedbed for a free-market utopia, and leftwingers who think socialism is similarly best assisted by disaster? Whatever the explanation, and whatever the levels of support for leave among Labour voters, a supposed party of opposition – and a leftwing one at that – accepting a project birthed and then sustained in the worst kind of rightwing political circles is a very odd spectacle indeed. This, surely, will also be the verdict of history.

KudosDave