Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
A bit too cynical, the position has been improving as I posted. Although both still far too high, overall and youth unemployment have considerably fallen and are still improving.
Climbing a ladder isn't using only the bottom and top rungs, those in between have to be used and that takes time.
It's now estimated that it will take until 2030 for Greece to get back the the pre 2008 international slump position, meaning a long period of gradually improving standards. It's now also accepted that they were wise to stay in the eurozone and not revert to the drachma.
We in the UK are now taking the reverse direction in effect by leaving the EU and already expect a long period of decline before things get better.
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And for such a Damned Fool reason too:the whim of the Public
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It is just that I have friends who just got back from a 2 week holiday. They are more into the alternative lifestyle so were not looking at Greece from a 3 star hotel room and they were shocked by how bad things are for ordinary people.
We all know the debt was created by govt. over borrowing (helped by an American Bank), corruption (practised at all levels of society) and the refusal by the mega rich to pay any tax, at all. The banks rushed to loan money that they knew the country was unable to pay back. Ordinary businesses not paying VAT did not help much either. At the moment they are struggling to pay interest on debt and common thought is that the capital of the debt will never be repaid. 100m € has already been written off.
I know, all true and the debt will eventually be written off. But the situation is improving and is much better now, depite being very bad still to outside eyes. That's the important thing, that the Greeks themselves see continuous gradual improvement. What outsiders think is of no importance.
I've lived through this, from the very poor poverty level standards in WW2 and the long steady growth out of that. That was good, seeing things always gradually getting better, it gives hope.
Much better that than starting from a high standard and seeing that continuously draining away. That brings despair.
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I've never read it, gave up on newspapers many decades ago.You've been reading The Guardian again...
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The biggest idiot is at it again in the Telegraph
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Boris JohnsonThe state of Greece shows us why it is crucial to chuck Chequers"
No Boris Greece is recovering from the actions of imbeciles like you!
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Boris JohnsonThe state of Greece shows us why it is crucial to chuck Chequers"
No Boris Greece is recovering from the actions of imbeciles like you!
And from the Express
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BREXIT TROJAN HORSE: Brexiteers launch Tory membership 'BLUE WAVE' in bid to CONTROL May
MORE than half of local Tory associations have been flooded with new members including many thought to be Euro-sceptics critical of Theresa May's Brexit plans, a survey revealed yesterday.
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BREXIT TROJAN HORSE: Brexiteers launch Tory membership 'BLUE WAVE' in bid to CONTROL May
MORE than half of local Tory associations have been flooded with new members including many thought to be Euro-sceptics critical of Theresa May's Brexit plans, a survey revealed yesterday.
While on the other side, yet another "obvious" point (but obviously necessary to make):
No-deal Brexit thrusts UK into 'legal vacuum', warns Keir Starmer
Exclusive: shadow Brexit secretary says Theresa May would face race to pass laws
Theresa May and the government would face a race against time to pass a slew of new laws, or risk creating an “unsustainable legal vacuum”, if Britain plunged out of the EU without a deal, Labour’s Keir Starmer has warned.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/26/no-deal-brexit-uk-legal-vacuum-keir-starmer-theresa-may
Further down:
Joe Owen, of thinktank the Institute for Government, said that in theory parliament could pass legislation rapidly in an emergency; but it is unclear whether MPs would cooperate.
Of course, we just love poorly drafted legislation on issues that have been inadequately investigated, being passed without time for proper oversight.
No-deal Brexit thrusts UK into 'legal vacuum', warns Keir Starmer
Exclusive: shadow Brexit secretary says Theresa May would face race to pass laws
Theresa May and the government would face a race against time to pass a slew of new laws, or risk creating an “unsustainable legal vacuum”, if Britain plunged out of the EU without a deal, Labour’s Keir Starmer has warned.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/26/no-deal-brexit-uk-legal-vacuum-keir-starmer-theresa-may
Further down:
Joe Owen, of thinktank the Institute for Government, said that in theory parliament could pass legislation rapidly in an emergency; but it is unclear whether MPs would cooperate.
Of course, we just love poorly drafted legislation on issues that have been inadequately investigated, being passed without time for proper oversight.
No change then! Poorly Drafted gave us Brexit
The American senator John McCain who once tried and failed to become the US President died two days ago.
Representing the British people, the woman acting as PM until a proper one can be elected, immediatelylied eulogised about him in this tweet, in spite of the fact that McCain was no 'man of peace', advocating military intervention against all of the countries on this list:
Bosnia, Kosovo, Georgia, North Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Syria, Kuwait, Libya, Nigeria, and Mali.
Is it any wonder that the UK is hated by the peoples of various countries around the globe when our government repeatedly announces our support for warmongering states such as the USA, Israel and Saudi Arabia. There is a common thread runs through so many of the problems the UK has experienced and it has everything to do with our hasty adherence to the military and geo-political aspirations of the countries we claim are our friends and with whom we have a special relationship.
This is what May had to say about McCain:
So, it is an honour to have a major warmonger as a friend. I have a problem with that.
Tom
Representing the British people, the woman acting as PM until a proper one can be elected, immediately
Bosnia, Kosovo, Georgia, North Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Syria, Kuwait, Libya, Nigeria, and Mali.
Is it any wonder that the UK is hated by the peoples of various countries around the globe when our government repeatedly announces our support for warmongering states such as the USA, Israel and Saudi Arabia. There is a common thread runs through so many of the problems the UK has experienced and it has everything to do with our hasty adherence to the military and geo-political aspirations of the countries we claim are our friends and with whom we have a special relationship.
This is what May had to say about McCain:
So, it is an honour to have a major warmonger as a friend. I have a problem with that.
Tom
Howard Zinn, an American born of poor, Jewish-immigrant parents in the USA, who lived through the great depression, fought in WW2 and whose life is captured fairly accurately in Wikipedia, said many important things by way of social commentary during his life and this is one:
A lot of people, not just Americans, would do well to recognise the truth in those words.
Tom
A lot of people, not just Americans, would do well to recognise the truth in those words.
Tom
That has always seemed the natural interpretation to me. The difficulty, of course, being in identifying when disobedience is necessary and keeping to principles even under pressure. It is very easy to have qualms and be unsure about the activities of our government but much harder not to close eyes, assume all is well, etc.
The priciple involved is quite simple when you think about it, it's all about the right wing passion for Empire Building
America deliberately bled us white and toppled us from the "Top of the Pile"
during the first world war.
Once that principle was understood, the possibility of profit from being a client state of the USA (oops! Ally) by taking part in building their Empire to replace ours was too good to miss.
The snag was that they bled us white by being late for the Second World War as well, which rather spoiled our fun.
For a brief while membership of the EU, despite our "best" efforts restored some balance.
Now when the time comes we are out of the EU we will be the USA's scrapyard dogs again.
And hopes turn high in many Tory hearts that Gun running for them will save the day, while they protect us from our folly.
If the EU had been as rabid at Empire building, there would be no right wing desire to leave it.
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the days of the old model British Empire are truly over. Capitalistic empires are multinational companies, the likes of Apple, Oracle, FB, RBS. Political empires are more likely built by socialists, Russia and China today, India and South Africa tomorrow.
The USA is agressively anti-Empire as a result of being part of one originally and they don't have one. That's why they atacked the Spanish Empire early in the 20th cebtury and liberated its countries, then planning to do the same to us.
Our bankrupt outcome of WW2 meant they were in a position to insist we gave our empire countries their freedom without having to attack us.
America's version of empire is an empire of the mind, trying to get the rest of the world to adopt their culture in its entirety. Where Coca Cola, McDonalds and jeans are concerned, they've won.
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nowhere more obvious than the power of Hollywood, science fiction films.
They also make the world learn English through karaoke.
Then there is the dollar that dominates the world of banking and commerce.
The EU threatens that empire.
That learning English through karaoke and Hollywood films I regard as a thoroughly good thing, a step towards a future of only one language. Serious war between nations who speak the same language is very rare, probably due to greater understanding being easier to reach.
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