Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

Yesterday we had this in the Guardian
"
Jeremy Hunt hits back at Airbus over Brexit warnings on jobs
Minister says comments from businesses risk undermining Theresa May in talks with EU

And I just had to post this great reader comment
"
Cicadoidea Miamijim
17h ago

89 90
He's come a long way from being a questionable culture secretary with a legacy of putting through News Corp's takeover bid of BSkyB no questions asked to being a disgraced Health secretary, residing over the dismantling of the NHS. Now he's angling to become the next PM. Is there no beginning to his talents?

You could fit that epithet to the vast majority of the inmates in the palace of Westminster

 

[oldgroaner]

View attachment 25484
And
View attachment 25485
They are meaningless.? Crazy.

Time for a giggle ...I found this
""Clear red water" refers to the party colour (Labour's colour is red) but loses the use of an established phrase and the obvious water analogy, and so would appear puzzling unless you were aware of the party colours and the previous Conservative Party usage. A search on uk pages using google will reveal reference to "clear red water" with the specific meaning of Labour Party supporters advocating a more left-wing policy. You can also find by the same means a few references to "clear yellow water", yellow being the colour of the Liberal Democrats party, referring to attempts by the Liberal Democrats to put across a set of policies making them more distinctive from the other two parties.
Matthew Huntbach "

How appropriate, but I think someone is taking the proverbial by identifying the Liberal Democrats with "clear yellow water"

On reflection.....perhaps not!

 

[oldgroaner]

You mean Romans as in migrants? Or, gasp... conquering invaders? And in those days it was the Picts - family of mine apparently, on crest of arms.

Picts with a crest of arms? well I never knew that!

 

[flecc]

What your analysis fails to recognise is that the population in NI more evenly split.

I'm well aware of that from my days in business in Northern Ireland (Whiteabbey, Belfast), also dealing with customers from all over Ireland.

But my proposition possibility was a long way into the future. Of course the common view has long been the opposite, that the nationalist population growth will make them the dominant force in N.I. eventually. Tony Blair's promise of a a free vote on the future of Ireland could then lead to unity.

But times change, nothing stays the same for ever, so I have an open mind on what could happen.
.

 

[tillson]

Yesterday we had this in the Guardian
"
Jeremy Hunt hits back at Airbus over Brexit warnings on jobs
Minister says comments from businesses risk undermining Theresa May in talks with EU

And I just had to post this great reader comment
"
Cicadoidea Miamijim
17h ago

89 90
He's come a long way from being a questionable culture secretary with a legacy of putting through News Corp's takeover bid of BSkyB no questions asked to being a disgraced Health secretary, residing over the dismantling of the NHS. Now he's angling to become the next PM. Is there no beginning to his talents?

You could fit that epithet to the vast majority of the inmates in the palace of Westminster

In fairness, Airbus do manufacture in the USA so that raises the question of how important EU membership is to the company.

I forget who it was, but last week a prominent figure (ass-hole) suggested that we tell Airbus to get stuffed and that we build our own aircraft in this country. For me this sums up the British attitude towards engineers and skilled manufacturing workers. They clearly believe that this kind of knowledge and skill is so easy and simple to learn that it can be turned on an off like a tap. There is no way this country will ever have an independent, large scale aircraft manufacturing industry again. It’s been destroyed by the get rich quickly sector and it will never return. China will dominate aircraft production very soon which will probably sink Airbus, leaving Boeing as a US defence side-show.

 

[Danidl]

Agreed, and by the way that's a very fine word you have introduced to the language.
"twarted"
presumably a combination of "Twat and Tart"
How apt when describing Brexit and it's ill begotten lot of Political sponsors!

.. I was trying to gain kudos,with the London crowd, by dropping my h s .. Ah well thwarted again!

 

[flecc]

In fairness, Airbus do manufacture in the USA so that raises the question of how important EU membership is to the company.
China will dominate aircraft production very soon which will probably sink Airbus, leaving Boeing as a US defence side-show.

I think EU membership will remain for a long time very important to Airbus for the support it gives, but it could eventually shrink back to it's origin as only a French aircraft maker.

But on the other hand much depends on the world political future. If China becomes an enemy of the West as it well could over time, Airbus and Boeing would continue to be major aircraft producers in the divided market.
.

 

[flecc]

.. I was trying to gain kudos,with the London crowd, by dropping my h s ..

That's well over half a century out of date! They nearly all left London long ago, many of them moving abroad to avoid foreigners.
.

 

[Danidl]

In fairness, Airbus do manufacture in the USA so that raises the question of how important EU membership is to the company.

I forget who it was, but last week a prominent figure (ass-hole) suggested that we tell Airbus to get stuffed and that we build our own aircraft in this country. For me this sums up the British attitude towards engineers and skilled manufacturing workers. They clearly believe that this kind of knowledge and skill is so easy and simple to learn that it can be turned on an off like a tap. There is no way this country will ever have an independent, large scale aircraft manufacturing industry again. It’s been destroyed by the get rich quickly sector and it will never return. China will dominate aircraft production very soon which will probably sink Airbus, leaving Boeing as a US defence side-show.

I think the situation is that no country can afford to create an aerospace industry or a large scale semiconductor industry any more. These have now become continental industries, if not global. The R&D involved surpasses the capability of any single country. .. the USA is not a country, it is a continent, china is not a country either, but a continent in all but name.

 

[Kudoscycles]

The EU and the UK have said they want to reach an agreement on future trade, but leading Brexiteers say failing to reach a deal would not be disastrous. They have said the UK could revert to rules set by the WTO, and have claimed that's how we currently trade with the rest of the world.

"It is perfectly fine for the UK to leave and trade with [the EU] as we trade with the rest of the world at the moment, under world trade rules," said MP John Redwood on 19 October.

"Even if we leave [the EU] without a deal, we still get most favoured nation status under WTO rules, which is how we trade with the rest of the world," said Bernard Jenkin MP on 17 January.

Reality Check verdict: This is wrong. With regard to tariffs, the UK trades with 24 countries and territories under WTO rules alone. With 68 others it has, as part of the EU, free trade agreements, either fully or partly in place, which all enable trade on better terms.
After Brexit, or any transitional period, the UK could not automatically adopt trade arrangements that currently exist between the EU and other countries - it would have to negotiate its own.

Some would be easier to nail down than others and Britain is a large market so there is a clear incentive for countries to negotiate.

What would WTO rules mean?
The UK wants to negotiate a "comprehensive, bold and ambitious" free trade agreement with the EU.

If it can't achieve that, there are a number of other possible arrangements of varying depth before the UK reaches the point where it has no preferential trade relationship with the EU other than common membership of the WTO.

If the UK had to trade under WTO rules, tariffs - a tax on traded goods - would be applied to all UK exports.

The average WTO tariff varies from product to product, from 0% on mineral fuels and pharmaceuticals, to around 20-35% on processed food and 45-50% on meat.

Apologies for pasting but it was already clearly explained,still we have Liam Fox to ensure that we replace the 60 EU world trade deals....that 45-50% on meat could hurt,how much meat do we bring in from the rest of the world???


KudosDave

 

[flecc]

how much meat do we bring in from the rest of the world???

Data in rounded 1000 tonne units:

Beef: Imported 239, Exported 115

Sheep: Imported 91, Exported 95

Pork: Imported 607, Exported 187

All red meats: Imported 937, Exported 397

So we don't do well in this area, as in so many others. Never mind, we'll have to fill up with sovereignty.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

I think the situation is that no country can afford to create an aerospace industry or a large scale semiconductor industry any more. These have now become continental industries, if not global. The R&D involved surpasses the capability of any single country. .. the USA is not a country, it is a continent, china is not a country either, but a continent in all but name.

Does that mean we are "incontinent"?

 

[oldgroaner]

Data in rounded 1000 tonne units:

Beef: Imported 239, Exported 115

Sheep: Imported 91, Exported 95

Pork: Imported 607, Exported 187

All red meats: Imported 937, Exported 397

So we don't do well in this area, as in so many others. Never mind, we'll have to fill up with sovereignty.
.

When we came off rationing the only way we could provide enough meat was to stop just keeping Chickens for eggs and Christmas and vastly increase the number we ate.
Presumably that's about all we would have left in abundance?

 

[anotherkiwi]

Data in rounded 1000 tonne units:

Beef: Imported 239, Exported 115

Sheep: Imported 91, Exported 95

Pork: Imported 607, Exported 187

All red meats: Imported 937, Exported 397

So we don't do well in this area, as in so many others. Never mind, we'll have to fill up with sovereignty.
.

And the EU is busy signing a trade deal with Aus and NZ...

When we came off rationing the only way we could provide enough meat was to stop just keeping Chickens for eggs and Christmas and vastly increase the number we ate.
Presumably that's about all we would have left in abundance?

As long as you don't go feeding them hormones and washing them in chlorine chicken is great stuff, especially free range.

 

[Danidl]

When we came off rationing the only way we could provide enough meat was to stop just keeping Chickens for eggs and Christmas and vastly increase the number we ate.
Presumably that's about all we would have left in abundance?

Chickens!!! Oh you were so lucky etc etc...
On a linked point with the escalation in tension between the usa and the remainder of the world, the EU are fast tracking trade deals with China, so where does that leave a BREXIt minded UK?.

 

[flecc]

As long as you don't go feeding them hormones and washing them in chlorine chicken is great stuff, especially free range.

Fortunately we do rear our own poultry and eggs, been a strength of ours for decades. And we've always led the world in the birds welfare standards too.
.

 

[Danidl]

Data in rounded 1000 tonne units:

Beef: Imported 239, Exported 115

Sheep: Imported 91, Exported 95

Pork: Imported 607, Exported 187

All red meats: Imported 937, Exported 397

So we don't do well in this area, as in so many others. Never mind, we'll have to fill up with sovereignty.
.

The beef figure might be somewhat inflated. As there is at present extensive traffic between the western counties in Ireland , producing calves for finishing off on the richer pastures on the eastern and north eastern seaboard. Post BREXIt there will be friction in the finishing of off east of the River Bann.
The historical traffic of herds traveling by cattle boat from Dublin to Liverpool, as occured in the 1960s ,is just that.... historical.

 

[flecc]

The beef figure might be somewhat inflated. As there is at present extensive traffic between the western counties in Ireland , producing calves for finishing off on the richer pastures on the eastern and north eastern seaboard.

You do realise that you are implying the Northerners can accurately count those crossing to the north but the Southerners can't do the same the other way?
.

 

[oldgroaner]

You do realise that you are implying the Northerners can accurately count those crossing to the north but the Southerners can't do the same the other way?
.

It's easy to explain flecc, the southerners don't wear bowler hats
And the northerners think it's wiser to leave them off till they get back over the border

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Independent

Good old Trump! some say
"
Harley-Davidson to shift motorcycle production out of US due to EU tariffs
Bike manufacturer says costs associated with new levies would lead to price hikes for consumers

Harley-Davidson said on Monday that it will move production of EU-bound motorcycles out of the US in a bid to combat costs linked to tariffs on various American products.

The EU is Harley-Davidson’s second biggest market in terms of revenues outside of the US.

The motorcycle maker said the tariffs, which came into effect on 22 June in response to levies imposed by Donald Trump on steel and aluminium imports, had risen from 6 per cent to 31 per cent.
This translates into a cost of around $2,200 (£1,700) per motorcycle exported from the US to the EU.

“The tremendous cost increase, if passed onto its dealers and retail customers, would have an immediate and lasting detrimental impact to its business in the region, reducing customer access to Harley-Davidson products and negatively impacting the sustainability of its dealers’ businesses,” the manufacturer said.