Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

From the Express
"
National embarrassment! Defence cuts leave UK reliant on French and German military
THE UK was forced to rely on the French and German military last year to cover gaps in Britain’s defence budget, an MP claimed..

Fortunately for us, it's far cheaper for Foreigners to buy up the UK than invade it, plus they do actually do a better job of turning a profit than our own clowns.
Therefore logic suggests that we close down all of our Armed Forces and put up a "Nation for Sale no reasonable offer refused" sign instead.

Here is a reasonable question, how can we be leaving the EU when the majority of our businesses and infrastructure are already under the ownership of EU nations?
Puzzling that.

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Independent
"
Philip Hammond tells EU it 'takes two to tango' as Brexit talks restart
The Chancellor is speaking to business leaders in Germany

Actually it only requires a Ventriloquist and a Dummy.
And what is the good of speaking to "Business Leaders"
Are they now "The EU"?
Why not the accredited Negotiators?

Stupid propaganda.

 

[anotherkiwi]

From the Independent
"
Philip Hammond tells EU it 'takes two to tango' as Brexit talks restart
The Chancellor is speaking to business leaders in Germany

Actually it only requires a Ventriloquist and a Dummy.
And what is the good of speaking to "Business Leaders"
Are they now "The EU"?
Why not the accredited Negotiators?

Stupid propaganda.

What if the EU doesn't want to dance with you any more? I mean you did ask to leave the ball...

 

[Woosh]

What if the EU doesn't want to dance with you any more? I mean you did ask to leave the ball...

that's just speculation.
It's a lose lose situation.
The EU would pay more in import duty and suffer delays in the divorce bill settlement if there is no deal.
The transition period will satisfy honor for both sides. At the end of that period, common sense will return. The UK will get most of the trade it wants while sticking very close to membership.
Most of the combattants, Mr Barnier, Mr Fox and Mr Davis will be out of their job by then, nobody would think there is any need to leave the EU nor to make the UK regret brexit.

 

[Woosh]

hang on a minute:

Nigel Farage has said it may be time to hold a second referendum on Brexit.

“So maybe – just maybe – I’m reaching the point of thinking that we should have a second referendum on EU membership.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-nigel-farage-second-referendum-eu-membership-wright-stuff-video-ukip-maybe-leader-a8153106.html

He is the first hard brexiter to have a wobbly moment.

 

[flecc]

Most of the combattants, Mr Barnier, Mr Fox and Mr Davis will be out of their job by then, nobody would think there is any need to leave the EU nor to make the UK regret brexit.

I think the crunch for the UK is services. The EU have always been resolute that outsiders cannot have access to provide services, and that services can logically only come with free movement of people.

Since the UK is so dependent on our services we will ultimately have no option but to concede to virtual full EU conditions of trading.

We'll have won nothing worthwhile but lost the rebate and any chance of other future concessions.
.

 

[tillson]

hang on a minute:

Nigel Farage has said it may be time to hold a second referendum on Brexit.

“So maybe – just maybe – I’m reaching the point of thinking that we should have a second referendum on EU membership.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-nigel-farage-second-referendum-eu-membership-wright-stuff-video-ukip-maybe-leader-a8153106.html

He is the first hard brexiter to have a wobbly moment.

Maybe a second referendum would be a good idea, same issues as last time, same choices, but this time, we all get behind whichever decision is made. No whingeing, no undermining, no scaremongering from either side, we respect the decision and get on with it. Let's see what happens.

 

[oldgroaner]

nobody would think there is any need to leave the EU nor to make the UK regret brexit.

Very amusing if you really imagine that to be the case, and quite delusional.
The majority of us regret that decision and have from day one, regarding it as a temporary bout of national insanity.
The EU is much more than a trade deal and we have fallen under the control of a Mafia, with all that that entails.
There will be tears before this farce is over.

 

[Woosh]

Very amusing if you really imagine that to be the case, and quite delusional.
The majority of us regret that decision and have from day one, regarding it as a temporary bout of national insanity.
The EU is much more than a trade deal and we have fallen under the control of a Mafia, with all that that entails.
There will be tears before this farce is over.

You forget to look at the valuable lesson since the vote.
The cost of reducing EU migration (84,000 one year after the referendum) is clear for everyone to see.
We'll learn the value of immigration from that.

 

[oldtom]

Nigel Farage has said it may be time to hold a second referendum on Brexit.

He is the first hard brexiter to have a wobbly moment.

It's Farage covering all bases in the hope that he might salvage some kind of career in politics if his 'Brexit' dream all turns to hist in the near future.

His summing-up, suggesting that another referendum may just put the matter to bed for good because the vote to leave would be so much greater would be a major triumph of hope over expectation. My own guestimate would be that the 'Brexit' vote would be decimated and only the extremists and racists would still be backing Farage and his dream.

Tom

 

[flecc]

Maybe a second referendum would be a good idea, same issues as last time, same choices, but this time, we all get behind whichever decision is made. No whingeing, no undermining, no scaremongering from either side, we respect the decision and get on with it. Let's see what happens.

The only way I'd concede to that is if there is a preset widely agreed margin for victory, plus an overseeing body to publically discipline the officially appointed liars. These are things that should have existed last time and their absence made the result invalid. Hence the expressions of extreme dissatisfaction.

There's no point in repeating the referendum otherwise.
.

 

[tillson]

Just a quick unrelated Brexit question. Suddenly, I have started receiving an email every time someone replies to one of my posts. I have not altered any setting and I can't easily see how to stop this happening. Help appreciated.

Edit: Now I am receiving two emails for every reply!

 

[Danidl]

Maybe a second referendum would be a good idea, same issues as last time, same choices, but this time, we all get behind whichever decision is made. No whingeing, no undermining, no scaremongering from either side, we respect the decision and get on with it. Let's see what happens.

Tilson, both of us know that that is just fantasy. Even were the UK to have had a resounding 80% leaving majority, it would have little traction in the real world. The problem is not that the the majority last time was minsicule, and those belting in remaining were not compliant, it is was that it is the wrong medicine for the wrong complaint.
No matter how willingly one engages, you will not make silk purses from sows ears.

Putting it bluntly , the UK of 2017 is a completely different animal than the UK of 1939 and the world is very much different also. Then the UK stood at the front of a global superpower called the British empire, or commonwealth and could demand support from Canada, Australia , the Indian subcontinent continent, NZ ,south America, southern Africa and multiple other smaller countries. It never in 1939, stood alone. Now all of these territories have linked themselves into associations of geographically appropriate groups, and the UK is isolated. There is one group which is willing to and is logically positioned to accommodate the British, and that is the EU... The one group which the British wish to disassociate.

 

[flecc]

Just a quick unrelated Brexit question. Suddenly, I have started receiving an email every time someone replies to one of my posts. I have not altered any setting and I can't easily see how to stop this happening. Help appreciated.

Edit: Now I am receiving two emails for every reply!

If you hover over your forum name at the top right, then choose Contact Details from the list on the left, then scroll down to Contact Details under the Settings heading, you'll get the option for mail or not.

That should clear both, but if not, post back for another option.
.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

You forget to look at the valuable lesson since the vote.
The cost of reducing EU migration (84,000 one year after the referendum) is clear for everyone to see.
We'll learn the value of immigration from that.

Compared to the loss of legislation intended to make like safer and better your "lesson" is trivial, as we knew that already,nothing new to be learned there.
We have simply delivered the nation into the hands of it's worst enemies.

 

[tillson]

If you hover over your forum name at the top right, then choose Contact Details from the list on the left, then scroll down to Contact Details under the Settings heading, you'll get the option for mail or not.

That should clear both, but if not, post back for another option.
.
.

Thanks flecc, There was a box checked which said, "Receive email when a new conversation message is received" I have unchecked that as it was the only thing which related to email. I hope that has done it.

 

[flecc]

Thanks flecc, There was a box checked which said, "Receive email when a new conversation message is received" I have unchecked that as it was the only thing which related to email. I hope that has done it.

That's the one, hopefully it covers all bases.

If not and you still get bothered, hover over your name again and choose in turn both "Preferences" and "Alert Preferences" on the left, then uncheck the email items as required.
.

 

[Woosh]

after Farage having second thoughts, Aaron Banks added his support for second referendum:

"If we do not act radically now, we will sleepwalk into a faux Brexit, in name only. True Brexiteers have been backed into a corner and the only option now is to go back to the polls and let the people shout from the rooftops their support of a true Brexit."

 

[anotherkiwi]

Remember the story of the boy who cried "Wolf!"?

In any case brexit is hardly ever first page news here, the English are considered even odder than before and the UK is no longer a trustworthy and reliable partner...

 

[Zlatan]

Can you imagine how stupid Cameron would feel if we had a 2nd ref and it was a resounding remain...Would be worth it just for that alone.
I,m not sure vote would be so different...yes we,ve all argued like mad on here and in process learnt quite a lot with a chance some of us have modified our stance. Do we think that's case for all voting public ? I suspect population has simply become more polarised. Many were not sure last time,afterwards they have sought out the evidence to justify their vote, and simply convinced themselves their decision last ( last) June was the right one. I,ve not actually met anyone who has changed their minds.
We would still be in position of having to decide what to do with an almost split decision.
There are arguments for Flecc,s view, leavers might say we need a 10% majority to reverse leaving..???
Would May have to resign if we voted remain ? Could go through entire cabinet like that..
Other thing to consider, have you ever watched Strictly when its obvious public are voting for Anne Widdecomb to mess results up. They often vote for the slowest,most dim witted dancer on the show...I suspect many value our democracy at a similar level. What's point of taking it serious after all the scandal,stealing,porn etc etc.. They vote thinking " deal with that "..? Only a thought.
After all democracy gave us Trump and Farage..they really are jokes for leaver or remainer??? ( I actually think Farage cost leavers thousands of votes, he,s a bit like the kid at school who's crap at football.." You have him"... " no, you"..
Farage does not represent the opportunity side of leaving...just the prejudiced one. The one remainers have battered us with.
I said weeks ago we should have a second ref. Before we do tho,the public should be able to pick 5 MPs who get sacked. I voted leave but I,d vote for Farage.( for the sack) Diane Abbott would be second on list. She has cost labour countless votes/ support.

I always assess MPs by asking question would I leave my grandkids in their charge. Diane Abott would lose them. Garage would wonder off for a pint. Corbyn would be great with them but they,d run rings around him. Not sure who I,d trust. ??? There sure aren't many worthy ..yet we put everything we hold dear in their hands. Strange.