I can’t begin to imagine how hard it is to experience something like this. I have no concept of how people can cope. Something dormant inside us must become active and help us through and I hope that has been your experience.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
You said... the bus had nothing to do with the situation we're now in.
I proved that it is a contributing factor and now you're changing the question.
The questions you're now asking is different.
But I think the bus is still a key thing, it is all that is bad about current politics and we should learn from it, all sides should learn from it.
In my eyes, the lies mean the vote should be invalid, it was based on lies, even if the lies were on both sides its still a nonsense.
If two team cheat at football, the result doesn't stand because the both cheated!
And the fact that the result was so marginal adds further justification for ignoring it.
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I think you have a point. The bus was a big feature during the run up to the referendum and the message was clear. It is inconceivable that it had no influence on the way that some people voted.
Because the bus was so prominent and so influential, we can’t pretend that it never happened. That would be negligent of us, the public. We have a right to expect integrity from the MPs that we choose to represent us and for them to make claims or promises that are untrue is disrespectful, and has big implications for our future. So the bus can not and should not be forgotten. Quite the reverse, I want to hear how they are doing with regards to delivering the promise, what the plan is to fund the promise and what they intend to do in the event that they fail.
You simply can’t duck out of this sort of thing and if someone has lied or deceived, then they need to be made an example of to deter future instances. This is a massive issue it can’t be forgotten.
the charges need only to be high enough to cover administrative costs and not to deter people from seeking help.
That makes it pointless charging, the admin costs are miniscule. It's the medical costs that are high and which have to be enormously increased to give a prompt A & E service to all walk in patients.
A deterrent is very obviously needed given the obvious large scale abuse of the system that's occurring.
An alternative to a charge is Health Minister Jeremy Hunt's suggestion, walk in patients requiring a pass obtained from a filtering point, such as a minor injuries unit, GP, approved pharmacist etc.
That would immediately eliminate the unnecessary from the queues.
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Remove the food and drink machines from the waiting area? If you are badly hurt or very ill you aren't going to be hungry. Cell phone jammer of course (cell phones are banned in French hospitals).
And from schools, but unfortunately in both cases they are there because those institutions like the income they get from them.
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No I did not.
I said and I,ve checked
" The bus has nothing to do with our present situation" ( that's not denying it might have helped get us here, but so what)
You have chosen to decide that both it has got us here ( which I,m not sure about) and that I said it didn't. It might have, but for where we are going ( or want to go) its completely and utterly irrelevant. You just want to argue about the past. I couldn't care less who or what got us here..firstly nobody actually knows and secondly it makes not a jot of difference. The task is to decide best place to go from here and how to get there..
Like my dad used to say..
"It says Bisto on buses but you cant buy any from them"
Ultimately nobody knows why folk voted as they did. Stop trying to decide for them. Its nothing to do with anything anymore.
If you are searching for reprisal, well yes you have a point. I,m not. I,d rather put efforts into going right place, what folk write on buses has never made much impression on most. Yes, it was misleading. That's life..unfortunately. Besides I only saw bus after voting .
We should expect better , straighter behaviour from the lot of them. There are IMO much more important issues than who wrote what on a bus.
Policies for future, a viable labour leader, an actual shadow cabinet, fair taxes, encouraging business taxes, and what nation actually thinks of Brexit now are all way more important than trying to take some sleazy mp to court for writing on a bus.
I once broke 2 vertebrae in my neck, chap in next bed had exactly same treatment even though he,d done his on a motorbike and I,d done mine windsurfing. How we arrived in hospital is irrelevant. How we get out is what's important. Yes, mistakes were made. I have probably made same mistakes since and been fortunate but I don't think anyone will be basing their vote on words written on a bus again...if they ever did.
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The problem I have with Brexit is that the notion of trusting the future of the nation to the tender mercies of the political class that infests the house of commons flies in the face of logic.
We know they are liars
We know them to be dishonest
We know them to serve invisible paymasters
We know that they serve only the Elite
Why then are we embarking as a nation on this voyage into the Abyss?
Just because of a Referendum result gained on the basis of lies sold to the gullible public?, when a large part of the population were excluded from voting anyway?
Tell me someone, anyone, what is the point of it all?
We know they are liars
We know them to be dishonest
We know them to serve invisible paymasters
We know that they serve only the Elite
Why then are we embarking as a nation on this voyage into the Abyss?
Just because of a Referendum result gained on the basis of lies sold to the gullible public?, when a large part of the population were excluded from voting anyway?
Tell me someone, anyone, what is the point of it all?
The propaganda worked, undeniably.
It is still working as you have proved.
Sleazy MPs should end up in court where they belong
None of the other things you want to happen are going to are they?
Brexit is a mistake imposed upon those of us who never wanted it by people who voted for something they had (and still have) no concept of the consequences of .
That decision has Jeapordized the future of us all,because people like to gamble.
No one in the HOC is going to come galloping over the hill to the rescue from this mad decision.
It's like the common cold.
No cure except Patience.
OG, you make some good points here and I can’t argue with them. However, I keep asking myself the same question, why pre-referendum was the “general vibe” coming from our MPs was one that we should remain in the EU?
I can understand how we got to the stage of holding a referendum, general dissatisfaction with politics in this country, Nigel Farage tappIng into that with his UKIP, Cameron getting a twitchy bottom and calling a referendum he thought he’d win etc. But that’s the point, they thought we’d vote to stay in, if they thought we really would vote to leave, the referendum wouldn’t have happened.
I will agree, we need to know where this is going, because all I can see is a chaotic and clueless government lurching from one balls-up to the next. I honestly have never seen anything like it and I’m surprised at how much incompetency they are getting away with.
I Included all the Politicians at Westminster available in my remarks.
There is little to commend any of them.
And in any case this ship of state is too small to be a viable vessel long term, no matter who steers it.
This is what causes my concern, at a time when we need clear direction and purpose, we are in danger of falling into the hands of a dangerous right wing faction that will cause irreparable long term damage to our most precious institutions pursuing policies that my ancestors the Bell Border Rievers would have joyfully exploited before they were hunted down and all but exterminated.
The Tory hard liners and worse, their paymasters are a danger to Society.
Strictly on the NHS front, there is a huge amount of money going to companies that are gouging us.
One example, a medicine that around ten years ago cost £12 for 28 tablets. Has increased to around £258 for exactly the same product. When a better quality product is available in Greece for less than two euros. Even German and French products are only about ten pounds or less.
Usually when a patient requires a "special" which is obtained from a licensed importer, the cost is far greater than for the UK product. In this case, such specials can result in a huge saving.
What has the NHS done about this gouging? Until recently, next to nothing. Now they are refusing to prescribe it. Sure that saves money - but at the expense of patient suffering. What they should have done is a) investigate the pricing - preparing a nice hard cell for the manipulative owners; b) arrange to import whatever product makes sense.
This is just one example - there are many others. This one costs us around £30 million a year (England only - and appropriate amounts for the other three countries).
One example, a medicine that around ten years ago cost £12 for 28 tablets. Has increased to around £258 for exactly the same product. When a better quality product is available in Greece for less than two euros. Even German and French products are only about ten pounds or less.
Usually when a patient requires a "special" which is obtained from a licensed importer, the cost is far greater than for the UK product. In this case, such specials can result in a huge saving.
What has the NHS done about this gouging? Until recently, next to nothing. Now they are refusing to prescribe it. Sure that saves money - but at the expense of patient suffering. What they should have done is a) investigate the pricing - preparing a nice hard cell for the manipulative owners; b) arrange to import whatever product makes sense.
This is just one example - there are many others. This one costs us around £30 million a year (England only - and appropriate amounts for the other three countries).
First , Tilson you have my sympathy. My mother passed away some six months ago and our family experience was much more humane than which you and your mother were subjected to. The fundamental problem is that an A&E department is an unsuitable place for a person in palliative care. It is much more humane as well as cost effective that the skilled resources with all the high tech kit, be used differently and that people would \ will die in a short time need to have more care than nursing, while still being able to access morphine and mouth moisturizer . What is strange is that hospital authorities and trusts seem to be ignorant of that fact that off campus rooms with access to care, not medicine would be much less expensive as well as comfortable for both the patient and family.
I can't make up my mind whether these two Wayne Kerrs are grovelling to the other side or threatening them but one thing's for sure, the EU has all the aces in this matter and we can have all the trade deals available to us on 'Brexit' but the best deal in town remains full membership of the EU.
The moronic, brain-dead elements of society were very deliberately misled by a group of lying fascists and for them, the whole deal was about stopping immigration, indeed some believing that we would be expelling large numbers of the existing immigrant population, even 3rd generation ones! Many of those racists should never have been allowed to leave school until they mastered the English language yet they are permitted by law to cast a vote in elections and referendums.
What kind of education system allows people to leave school with such poor grammar that the word 'have' is replaced by the word 'of' following 'could', 'should' or 'would'? Social media is responsible for the dumbing-down of society due to the preponderance of dullards writing their ignorant drivel for the benefit of their equally ignorant mates and family online.
'Your', 'you're'; 'there', 'they're, 'their'; 'two', 'too', 'to' plus the inability to use the apostrophe correctly are just some of the increasingly mis-used examples of poor English grammar that now appear daily on social media web pages and in phone messaging, 'Twitter' and the like.
I still remember all those hip, modern educators (they always seemed to have beards.....and that's just the women!) who excused the dunces for such ignorance, telling the world that it is the meaning that is important, not the spelling or the punctuation or grammar - they were wrong then and they are wrong now. Can you imagine the space race or the construction industry if mathematical rules and disciplines were disregarded in the way that the rules of grammar have been?
My grammar at times can be poor and I make the occasional spelling error as I'm sure most of us do from time to time, particularly when hurrying to type something online. Possibly, as may be the case with many older correspondents to these pages, the (I hope) generally acceptable standard I manage, like others of my generation, reflects a time when corporal punishment was meted out frequently in our schools - I am not recommending such violence but I have no doubt that it did encourage and foster a desire to pay attention in class and remember what we were being taught.
Back to the subject of 'Brexit': The ignoramuses voted for 'leave' because of hatred for foreign peoples, a hatred for coloured people and a misplaced notion that the English race (whatever that may be) is somehow superior to the French, the Germans, the Spanish and Italians.....and we won two world wars and a world cup.......a very long time ago. Those same ignoramuses know nothing of economics and their knowledge of arithmetic is limited to that needed for the games of darts, snooker and how the odds work at the bookie's.
The real question about 'Brexit' is who really wants it and why? Well, that is really two questions but the first part is answered by looking at those advocating this enormous leap into the unknown although the unknown is a lot clearer now than it was in June 2016.
Some of the proponents are among the wealthiest people in the land and others, while less wealthy, are elderly and remember fondly, a time when Britain ruled the waves and the sun never set on the British empire. They probably went to school in the thirties or forties and their brains, or what little of them still function, are stuck in a kind of time warp probably around 1955. Those dear old folk still hanker after an England with princesses and a Queen mum, with daily life like an episode of 'The Darling Buds of May'. The nearest we have to their ideal today is probably Lincolnshire but I doubt whether any of them could be persuaded to actually go and live there!
That brings me to the 'why' question. Answer - personal wealth expansion and the opportunity to shaft the common folk, reducing them to serfs obliged to perform forced labour at the master's bidding and no employment rights whatsoever. That is the only answer that I can find which makes any sense; with a police service and military on standby to quell any civil unrest, the gulf between rich and poor can be increased enormously and with any form of workplace representation made illegal and courts prepared to hand down salutary sentences to offenders, just like in the good old days, it all begins to make some sense.
As these millionaires and billionaires who desperately desire to see us exit the EU are most certainly not going to bring about a new industrial revolution in the UK and given that their financial interests are far removed from the exchequer, they are unlikely to have any desire to improve the standard of life endured by the working poor or the unemployed....or the sick, disabled or the young people embarking on life post school or college.
'Brexit' represents the sickest fantasies of the sickest people in society but it won't affect me too adversely on account of age and short life expectancy. It is the younger generation of British people I feel sorry for as they have already inherited a society far less benevolent than that enjoyed by their parents and it is going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better....if it ever does.
Tom
There has been some great imagery in evidence today in mainstream social media. In no particular order, I give you these from web pages I visit:
A long, long time ago, I can remember leadingtory pillocks members of the elite scum Conservative Party pontificating about a need for greater clarity, greater transparency and other well-meaning epithets in order to encourage those easily hoodwinked into voting for them.
I can also recall phrases such as 'We're all in it together!' and 'Let's create the big society'........something must have gone wrong or, God forbid, we have been lied to by tory politicians.
Whodathunkit!
Tom
A long, long time ago, I can remember leading
I can also recall phrases such as 'We're all in it together!' and 'Let's create the big society'........something must have gone wrong or, God forbid, we have been lied to by tory politicians.
Whodathunkit!
Tom