Brexit, for once some facts.

[Danidl]

It doesn't seem to clarify anything; indeed, it is contrary, seemingly attempting to balance two arguments and come out with a different answer to that of a man responsible for the authorship of A50.

We have not been made party to the legal opinion, (usually the province of the Attorney General), which gave rise to May's claim about the irreversibility of the 'Brexit' process but it certainly didn't come from a maverick lawyer who's a bit of a blogger.....or maybe it did!

I'm sure your opinion of Lord Kerr is probably accurate but I think it should be remembered that he worked with European representatives when he constructed the A50 provisions so presumably, there was a broad consensus about its meaning and intent.

Given that, the only way we would ever know for sure is if the UK turned up for discussions one day and stated 'We've changed our minds - cancel the whole thing!' We shouldn't have to wait long for an EU response and I doubt very much that they would say, 'Well you can't!' That would then mean, effectively, the EU would be expelling a member state and I'm not sure there is a mechanism for that.

Tom

I have read up on the court case listed for the Irish courts last may and the reasons by the plaintiffs for abandoning it. It would have been naïve of them to assume that the Irish government, listed as defendants!! Would have played dead, even if would ultimately be in Ireland's interest. The time to have initiated such an action would have been prior to article 50 being sent. Simply the timescale was too short for the types of action required.
What would the effect have been on Anglo Irish relationship had the Irish court agreed that it could be recinded? What would the effect on UK public opinion be had it been referred to the ECJ by Ireland? . .. and without any expectation that the UK wished to recind it.

 

[Danidl]

.. no the only chance, in my opinion for a motion to recind being successful would be an appeal to the entire body of 26 countries. I cannot see that being acceptable in any letter sent under the name of the current prime minister or foreign secretary.

 

[oldtom]

the only chance, in my opinion for a motion to recind being successful would be an appeal to the entire body of 26 countries.

'Danidl', I am under no illusion about 'Brexit' becoming a reality in one shape or another come March 2019 or later. However, your logic seems to exclude the possibility of any other position.

Just for conjecture, if say, the UK had another snap election, the tories lost power and a new government decided to hold another referendum before progressing 'Brexit', (unlikely I know but certainly not impossible), following your logic, were the result of that referendum a decided wish to remain in the EU, it would be impossible for us to rescind A50. That would be ridiculous.

As an aside, unless I'm mistaken, there are currently 28 member states in the EU yet I note you refer to the other 26 countries. Surely you mean 27 or am I missing something?

Leaving that aside, I just read this take on events and it makes an interesting read to be considered along with all the other opinions regularly bandied about:

https://veritasetlibertasdeannolxxxix.wordpress.com/2017/05/30/5/

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

Doubtful. You cant educate pork.

Then you wonder why your complaints about Remainers on here calling you names fall upon Deaf ears...
You do realise that remark will come back and haunt you don't you?

 

[anotherkiwi]

Doubtful. You cant educate pork.

Well there goes that theory out the window...

 

[oldgroaner]

"
EU signs defence pact in decades-long quest

BRUSSELS - France and Germany edge towards achieving a 70-year-old ambition to integrate European defences, signing a pact with 21 other EU governments to fund, develop and deploy armed forces after Britain's decision to quit the bloc."
Source Reuters.

One of the side effect of Brexit, and now there is absolutely nothing we can do to prevent or modify the Formation of a Military Power pan Europe that will become far greater than our own.

Strategically the very thing UK policy was fought against for hundreds of years, enabled by the Brexit decision removing any influence we had to be part of this organisation, or even prevent it's formation.

Congratulations Brexiteers!
You have helped to ensure that one day such a formidable Army could be used against us, instead of us being partner in it.

Utter Strategic Stupidity.

 

[Danidl]

'Danidl', I am under no illusion about 'Brexit' becoming a reality in one shape or another come March 2019 or later. However, your logic seems to exclude the possibility of any other position.

Just for conjecture, if say, the UK had another snap election, the tories lost power and a new government decided to hold another referendum before progressing 'Brexit', (unlikely I know but certainly not impossible), following your logic, were the result of that referendum a decided wish to remain in the EU, it would be impossible for us to rescind A50. That would be ridiculous.

As an aside, unless I'm mistaken, there are currently 28 member states in the EU yet I note you refer to the other 26 countries. Surely you mean 27 or am I missing something?

Leaving that aside, I just read this take on events and it makes an interesting read to be considered along with all the other opinions regularly bandied about:

https://veritasetlibertasdeannolxxxix.wordpress.com/2017/05/30/5/

Tom

Counting not my strong suite..26 or 27 ??.

Back to your main point.. yes my contention is that Brexit is now outside the control of any UK government. Whether one considers it ridiculous or not is not relevant. The text is clear, and it was the clearly expressed view of your whole parliament, not only your government that the UK was leaving. It was not an action of a small group of renagades which can be disregarded. Read my posts at the time....
But considering your hypothetical situation. In the event of a new government in the UK, which wanted to reverse the situation., They would petition the remaining countries 27?... , And they would in great likelihood recieve a very sympathetic hearing, aided by the officialdom in Brussels. Ireland in particular and Denmark in addition would be very vocal supporters of a UK recindment or reentry . The problem is that it would not be a slam dunk, and it would need only one country to object and then it would have to go to ECJ. Then the HoC would need to repeal the great repeal act etc... And it could be business as usual with the UK only having lost ..2? Years of growth.

 

[PeterL]

One to mull over...

SHARE OUR WEALTH

In America, the New Deal was attacked from the left and right.

The populist Louisiana governor Huey Long complained that Frances Perkins hadn't gone far enough.

The next industrial revolution?
He prepared to run for president on the slogan "Share our wealth" and a promise to confiscate fortunes from the rich. But he was shot dead in 1935, so that policy was never tested.

Such political tumult feels long past, but perhaps that's complacent. Some say we're experiencing another industrial revolution now, as the robots come for our jobs.

 

[PeterL]

Well there goes that theory out the window...

Very good and I was reminded of the Squid and the fish hunting as a pair on TV last night - we don't know the half of it. Sheep can recognise a pig when they see one too.

 

[PeterL]

"
EU signs defence pact in decades-long quest

BRUSSELS - France and Germany edge towards achieving a 70-year-old ambition to integrate European defences, signing a pact with 21 other EU governments to fund, develop and deploy armed forces after Britain's decision to quit the bloc."
Source Reuters.

One of the side effect of Brexit, and now there is absolutely nothing we can do to prevent or modify the Formation of a Military Power pan Europe that will become far greater than our own.

Strategically the very thing UK policy was fought against for hundreds of years, enabled by the Brexit decision removing any influence we had to be part of this organisation, or even prevent it's formation.

Congratulations Brexiteers!
You have helped to ensure that one day such a formidable Army could be used against us, instead of us being partner in it.

Utter Strategic Stupidity.

We've still got Trident!

 

[anotherkiwi]

We've still got Trident!

And that nice Mister Trump has the big red button for it! Er wait a minute...

 

[PeterL]

And that nice Mister Trump has the big red button for it! Er wait a minute...

Thank God he's on our side - today at least. We'd best keep Alex Salmon out of the way.

 

[PeterL]

"
EU signs defence pact in decades-long quest

BRUSSELS - France and Germany edge towards achieving a 70-year-old ambition to integrate European defences, signing a pact with 21 other EU governments to fund, develop and deploy armed forces after Britain's decision to quit the bloc."
Source Reuters.

One of the side effect of Brexit, and now there is absolutely nothing we can do to prevent or modify the Formation of a Military Power pan Europe that will become far greater than our own.

Strategically the very thing UK policy was fought against for hundreds of years, enabled by the Brexit decision removing any influence we had to be part of this organisation, or even prevent it's formation.

Congratulations Brexiteers!
You have helped to ensure that one day such a formidable Army could be used against us, instead of us being partner in it.

Utter Strategic Stupidity.

I wonder how Russia will view this?

 

[oldgroaner]

We've still got Trident!

From the Channel? that should be interesting, rather in the nature of messing on one's own doorstep methinks!
We would definitely have to wait for a favourable wind!

 

[oldgroaner]

I wonder how Russia will view this?

With Amusement I suspect

 

[oldgroaner]

We've still got Trident!

On loan

 

[flecc]

What would the effect have been on Anglo Irish relationship had the Irish court agreed that it could be recinded? What would the effect on UK public opinion be had it been referred to the ECJ by Ireland? . .. and without any expectation that the UK wished to recind it.

Around half of us would be pleased, way better than the proportion usually pleased by political or court decisions.
.

 

[flecc]

I wonder how Russia will view this?

They will welcome it. There are those in both Russia and the EU who want more co-operation between them, Germany in particular. The UK as an EU member was always a stumbling block due to our staunch alliance with the USA, but with us out of the way the prospects are much better.
.

 

[PeterL]

They will welcome it. There are those in both Russia and the EU who want more co-operation between them, Germany in particular. The UK as an EU member was always a stumbling block due to our staunch alliance with the USA, but with us out of the way the prospects are much better.
.

Almost, if not more, optimistic than a Brexiteer.

 

[oldgroaner]

Very good and I was reminded of the Squid and the fish hunting as a pair on TV last night - we don't know the half of it. Sheep can recognise a pig when they see one too.

Odd that voters can't recognise jackass,gollum and Boris for what they are!

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