Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

But time is of the essence and which side has wasted it.

on the contrary. Each side has its own circle or circles to square. On the EU side, how to make a good trade deal look like a bad deal, bad enough to discourage net contributors to want to exit the club. On the UK side, how to reconcile the hard and soft options.
What is needed is a good transition.
Both sides need to agree on the principle of a transition first, then future relationship, then NI border, then the bill to put the entire program in place.
There is no reason why the bill could not be negotiated during the transition period, in parallel with a free trade deal, the UK will continue to pay into the EU budget while in transition.
It can be 10 years.

 

[oldgroaner]

Mr Barnier said today:

“From our side, I repeat once again that an agreement is the best outcome. It is in our common interest. But if we want a deal, time is of the essence.”

Pressurizing the UK to come up with money plays straight into the arguments of hard brexiters. Time is the best weapon they have to reverse brexit.
To influence people, you need to show patience and understanding.

They already have, and it made no difference, did it?

 

[oldgroaner]

on the contrary. Each side has its own circle or circles to square. On the EU side, how to make a good trade deal look like a bad deal, bad enough to discourage net contributors to want to exit the club. On the UK side, how to reconcile the hard and soft options.
What is needed is a good transition.
Both sides need to agree on the principle of a transition first, then future relationship, then NI border, then the bill to put the entire program in place.
There is no reason why the bill could not be negotiated during the transition period, in parallel with a free trade deal, the UK will continue to pay into the EU budget while in transition.
It can be 10 years.

What is needed is to drop Brexit altogether as the lunatic idea it really is, or go ahead and find that out the hard way.

Deal, no deal? It really doesn't matter. This country has no chance of thriving on its own without the the grossest imaginable exploitation of the people and becoming a Tax Haven.

Only the rich will thrive as intended, then hell will break out.

 

[oldgroaner]

What good will Patience do when our PM comes out with tripe like this?
From the Guardian
"
Theresa May tells EU leaders they have 'profound responsibility' to next generation to make Brexit deal work

No they don't you stupid idiot, that is your reponsibility, your party caused Brexit, so you have to fix it!

 

[Woosh]

What is needed is to drop Brexit altogether as the lunatic idea it really is, or go ahead and find that out the hard way.

brexit is not a bad idea.
We are getting out of the US of E (which does not exist yet, but will after brexit).

 

[anotherkiwi]

brexit is not a bad idea.
We are getting out of the US of E (which does not exist yet, but will after brexit).

You are getting out? Giving up your French nationality?

 

[oldgroaner]

From the independent

 

[oldgroaner]

brexit is not a bad idea.
We are getting out of the US of E (which does not exist yet, but will after brexit).

There we differ , not only is the united States of Europe a Good thing, but we are missing the chance to guide in the way it is created and run
It's a stupid mistake to allow hegemony in Europe to form in a way that could work against us.
Truly an error of immense proportions, that will cost us dearly.

 

[oldtom]

Ok, if May is stepping into the mess at this stage, what then should we make of her appointees? Presumably, she is now going to tell the other side the way it really is and if they don't like it, there will be no deal. If not, what else can she have up her sleeve that hasn't already been broached by her top team, a team that she personally selected to get the best deal possible for the rich.......sorry, I meant, 'for the country!'

The Daily Express reports the latest moves in this way but we know their take on the matter is simply 'spin' to console the 'Brexidiots' by attempting to make the EU negotiators look like the bad guys in all this.

theresa-may-florence-speech-brexit-european-union-latest-negotiations

Just to recap, our side's position is this, as contained in Mrs May's notes for the meeting:

1) We want to continue to enjoy all the benefits we receive currently but we don't want to pay the membership subs any longer.

2) We don't want any European court to have ultimate primacy over British courts, particularly in matters such as industrial law, workplace rights and human rights issues.

3) We do not want to be an ordinary member of your club with equal voting rights to all the other states because we won two world wars to save Europe from German domination....just us, nobody else! We are therefore superior and we should own the club, produce the menu and employ the bouncers.

4) We are going to welch on all deals we promised to commit to for future periods and we are not going to pay anything towards those projects even though there are great benefits to be had for everyone.

5) We are going to turn the UK into a tax haven and act against EU policy on that matter. By the way, we want to keep all the EU financial business currently looked after by the City of London gangsters.....sorry, 'bankers'!

6) We don't want any immigrants or refugees and if any of your people living in the UK think we are going to guarantee them anything, they are up a gum tree. I hope that's clear.

There! We have laid our cards on the table so now who is being intransigent?

Theresa

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

If I may you have not completed this item
"2) We don't want any European court to have ultimate primacy over British courts, particularly in matters such as industrial law, workplace rights and human rights issues."

It should continue
"And we don't want either parliament or British Law to have that Primacy either."

 

[Woosh]

You are getting out? Giving up your French nationality?

No. But I don't like the idea of a USA of E.

 

[Woosh]

There we differ , not only is the united States of Europe a Good thing, but we are missing the chance to guide in the way it is created and run
It's a stupid mistake to allow hegemony in Europe to form in a way that could work against us.
Truly an error of immense proportions, that will cost us dearly.

the world is a different place now. I think if the EU fundamentalists get what they want (a USE), then we may become an even bigger bully boy than the USA.

 

[oldgroaner]

the world is a different place now. I think if the EU fundamentalists get what they want (a USE), then we may become an even bigger bully boy than the USA.

History is against you on this, as the move is always towards larger and larger grouping of nations, until there is in the end a pan world state.
inevitable as the end of the World.

 

[Woosh]

until there is in the end a pan world state.
inevitable as the end of the World.

most people just don't have the time nor the energy to take part in political debates leave alone putting themselves up for public offices. That creates opportunities for fundamentalists to take charge. People like Verhofstadt.
Remainers can go back to the creation of the UK referendum party. Back at that time (94-97), James Goldsmith and his small circle were the fundamentalists. Not many people, and I think that includes you, OG, could see his vision soon becoming reality.
Our world is protected by its plurality. It can tolerate some groupings but like all organic systems, when the animal becomes too big, it will destroy itself.

 

[oldgroaner]

Our world is protected by its plurality. It can tolerate some groupings but like all organic systems, when the animal becomes too big, it will destroy itself.

China, India and Russia give the lie to your theory the trend to integration is relentless.
"James Goldsmith and his small circle were the fundamentalists. Not many people, and I think that includes you, OG, could see his vision soon becoming reality.

Excuse me, I thought I had done that already, but never mind
Just another Fascist uprising like the last ones in Italy and Germany as far as I'm concerned, when all is said and done.

The Conservatives and cheap imitation parties have been raping the country for years and blaming the EU, they were obviously going to go for the kill sooner or later, once the EU decided to crack down on Tax Havens and Money laundering, they simply decided the time was right.

Not Rocket Science is it?

 

[Woosh]

China, India and Russia give the lie to your theory the trend to integration is relentless.

that and the monoculture are transforming our planet and not for the better.
Give me an example of an enlightened very large country and I will shut up.

 

[oldgroaner]

that and the monoculture are transforming our planet and not for the better.
Give me an example of an enlightened very large country and I will shut up.

Canada, Australia, Greenland, all do quite well, but don't shut up[emoji1]

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[flecc]

Canada, Australia, Greenland, all do quite well, but don't shut up[emoji1]

You've just revealed what's wrong, they're large countries but sparsely populated.

Given that's the secret of being a decent country, we need to do some extensive culling.
.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Australia and enlightened in the same sentence...

https://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/publications/recent-changes-australian-refugee-policy/

 

[flecc]

Theresa May's long awaited speech shows her previous tough talk was just that. I see it as the first step to a soft Brexit and major disappointment for the core Brexiters who want complete separation from the EU.
.
.