Brexit, for once some facts.

[Danidl]

So despite leaving the EU and withdrawing from the ECJ influence, our laws related to EU immigrants are frozen for up to 100 years until the most recent babies brought in have died?

And during that circa 100 years we are subject to any changes in the application of the law the ECJ chooses, without any input or control from us?

I think not.

Anyone moving to another country knows they will be subject to that countries laws and any changes in those laws that country chooses to make. There is no possible justification for EU citizens here to be treated any differently than that time honoured common practice.
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See it is a nightmare. Grandfather clauses are not unusual in cases such as residential rights. My understanding is that I would be entitled to apply for a UK passport in the grounds that my father and indeed my mother was born in Ireland pre 1923. , A date when the treaty between UK and the Irish Free State as it was then called. came into effect. I have no such intention, so will not be confirming that. My children would not however have that as a right.
What transpires will be in the detail yet to be decided.

 

[flecc]

what do you do when you go to those quaint tourist traps? .

I don't, tourism has been a curse on this planet, and in this modern media age, mostly unnecessary.
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[Danidl]

I don't, tourism has been a curse on this planet, and in this modern media age, mostly unnecessary.
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It wasn't a serious question

 

[flecc]

The Worst Brexit Lie Of All

is the lie by government and Brexiters that we have to leave the EU in order to trade more effectively with the rest of the world.

Germany is now the richest exporter in the whole world. That country of just 82 millions makes more from exports than the USA's over 300 millions, more than India's 1.2 billions, more than China's 1.3 billions. And does anyone really believe that there are areas of the world where one cannot buy a Mercedes or BMW due to EU rules?

It's all been done while in the EU and subject to all the EU's rules.

I've seen it argued that it's due to the post WW2 advantages, but that's historic rubbish. At the turn of the millennium in year 2000 the German economy was in the doldrums with their politicians concerned, but they got their metaphorical fingers out and fought their way back to success in just 16 years.

At no time during our 44 years of being in the Common Market and EU has there being anything stopping us doing the same, but we've failed to do so.

And that is why Brexit will probably be a disaster, this leopard shows no sign of being capable of changing its spots.

But change we must if we are to avoid a long downhill path, so we could do worse than look at how Germany succeeds. It's not with big business, they have a rather small number of international class giants. Their success comes from their 3.3 million small and medium enterprises with less than 500 employees each, and most exporting.

I fear we are going to need a radically different standard of government to make emulating that possible, but see no possibility of that on the horizon.
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[Woosh]

look at how Germany succeeds.

1. None of that 'we won, you lost' stuff
2. People naturally sort and put rubbish in bins and do not cross the roads outside the green man.
3. Germans are generally more careful with money
4. They always buy the right tools for the job
5. coalition government, decisions are made by general consensus

 

[oldgroaner]

1. None of that 'we won, you lost' stuff
2. People naturally sort and put rubbish in bins and do not cross the roads outside the green man.
3. Germans are generally more careful with money
4. They always buy the right tools for the job
5. coalition government, decisions are made by general consensus

And they did millions of pounds worth of improvements to the city where I live too!

 

[Danidl]

And they did millions of pounds worth of improvements to the city where I live too!

.. obviously they used the right tool for the job!

 

[oldgroaner]

The Worst Brexit Lie Of All

is the lie by government and Brexiters that we have to leave the EU in order to trade more effectively with the rest of the world.

Germany is now the richest exporter in the whole world. That country of just 82 millions makes more from exports than the USA's over 300 millions, more than India's 1.2 billions, more than China's 1.3 billions. And does anyone really believe that there are areas of the world where one cannot buy a Mercedes or BMW due to EU rules?

It's all been done while in the EU and subject to all the EU's rules.

I've seen it argued that it's due to the post WW2 advantages, but that's historic rubbish. At the turn of the millennium in year 2000 the German economy was in the doldrums with their politicians concerned, but they got their metaphorical fingers out and fought their way back to success in just 16 years.

At no time during our 44 years of being in the Common Market and EU has there being anything stopping us doing the same, but we've failed to do so.

And that is why Brexit will probably be a disaster, this leopard shows no sign of being capable of changing its spots.

But change we must if we are to avoid a long downhill path, so we could do worse than look at how Germany succeeds. It's not with big business, they have a rather small number of international class giants. Their success comes from their 3.3 million small and medium enterprises with less than 500 employees each, and most exporting.

I fear we are going to need a radically different standard of government to make emulating that possible, but see no possibility of that on the horizon.
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A Leopard capable of changing it's spots? the man says ....Leopard????

More in the Nature of Demented Vietnamese Pot Bellied Pigs with the Measels.
They won't change

 

[oldgroaner]

As Flecc has pointed out if Brexit was a good idea the Germans would have done it already.
They at least would have been able to succeed.
If they don't think it's a good idea, what kind of half witted notion was it for us to do so?
As a Nation we have as much business acumen
as a Pheasant has Road Sense
No wonder the World laughs at us.

 

[oldgroaner]

Amazing how the news depends on who reads it
"
Big net migration fall since Brexit vote, latest estimates show
Immigration Minister Brandon Lewis welcomed the new figures, saying: "It was good to see a third quarter running of net migration figures coming down".

But business groups raised concerns about the fall, with the CBI saying: "The loss of these vital skills should concern us all."

A spokesman for the Institute of Directors said "no one should celebrate these numbers".

"Given unemployment is currently at its lowest level ever (4.5%), without the three million EU citizens living here the UK would have an acute labour shortage.

"Signs that it is becoming a less attractive place to live and work are a concern," he added.

Note the last paragraph, when this applies to the local population as well
The Proverbial will hit the FAN, as quite simply wages will not rise to reflect the labour shortage.
Forget that, but the Natives won't will they what they will remember are the promises of better times, when what will happen is the Government will import Foreign skilled workers as they do now with special incentives in preference to them, as they don't want to encourage higher wages in the resident workforce.

 

[anotherkiwi]

The Worst Brexit Lie Of All

is the lie by government and Brexiters that we have to leave the EU in order to trade more effectively with the rest of the world.

Germany is now the richest exporter in the whole world. That country of just 82 millions makes more from exports than the USA's over 300 millions, more than India's 1.2 billions, more than China's 1.3 billions. And does anyone really believe that there are areas of the world where one cannot buy a Mercedes or BMW due to EU rules?

It's all been done while in the EU and subject to all the EU's rules.

I've seen it argued that it's due to the post WW2 advantages, but that's historic rubbish. At the turn of the millennium in year 2000 the German economy was in the doldrums with their politicians concerned, but they got their metaphorical fingers out and fought their way back to success in just 16 years.

At no time during our 44 years of being in the Common Market and EU has there being anything stopping us doing the same, but we've failed to do so.

And that is why Brexit will probably be a disaster, this leopard shows no sign of being capable of changing its spots.

But change we must if we are to avoid a long downhill path, so we could do worse than look at how Germany succeeds. It's not with big business, they have a rather small number of international class giants. Their success comes from their 3.3 million small and medium enterprises with less than 500 employees each, and most exporting.

I fear we are going to need a radically different standard of government to make emulating that possible, but see no possibility of that on the horizon.
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They are increasingly facing a working poor problem so that wealth is not being correctly distributed to all those in employment.
The weather isn't fabulous and the food is disgusting.
Their products are robust but often lack in fantasy, imagination is more of a Scandinavian quality than a German one.
Name one German comedy...

 

[Woosh]

"Signs that it is becoming a less attractive place to live and work are a concern," he added.

Note the last paragraph, when this applies to the local population as well

not as much if they have no ambition to live, work or study in another EU country or are in need of a stay in hospital.
It can even be a good thing if they want to pick a job on a farm or in the tourism industry.

 

[Woosh]

the Guardian just has a piece on why we should join EFTA;

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/24/brexit-eec-britain-efta

It seems we are less stupid than we look.

quote:

To sum up, joining Efta would mean the end of EU powers over UK trade policy; the UK would regain the flexibility in free trade it has always fought for (sometimes literally). It would mean the end of ECJ jurisdiction and the boosting of sovereignty in a useful, rather than a rhetorical (or theoretical) way. It would mean substantially reduced UK contributions to the EU – perhaps by 60%, if the Swiss contributions are anything to go by. And it means Brexit can be completed with the least disruption to the UK’s economic relationship with Europe, avoiding the chaos that seems increasingly inevitable given the timescale remaining before departure.

Brexiteers and Remainers will identify downsides. But creating much-needed certainty will help restore confidence, and may even help restore some trust in our politicians. Joining Efta provides a solid foundation for dealing with other sensitive issues, such as the Irish border and the role of the City of London.

But it’s not only the optimal solution: it’s optimistic as well. The UK would be welcomed by Efta, if the Efta court’s president’s words are to be believed. Efta, he said, could be the “natural home for the UK post-Brexit”. And he’s right.

 

[flecc]

They are increasingly facing a working poor problem so that wealth is not being correctly distributed to all those in employment.
The weather isn't fabulous and the food is disgusting.
Their products are robust but often lack in fantasy, imagination is more of a Scandinavian quality than a German one.
Name one German comedy...

None relevant to their economic success that I posted about though.

And the criticisms you raise can easily be balanced by non-economic advantages, such things as their huge success with environmental matters like recycling and solar power utilisation and their high standards of civil discipline and obedience to law.

German comedy? Try this one.
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[KTM Bike Industries UK]

It seems we are less stupid than we look.

ah, but we are just walking away from the £1bn that the EU put into our social housing... but that's ok because I'm sure the Tory government will match that spending won't they?

or possibly we are more stupid than we look and are walking away from something that we didn't understand.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-housing-crisis-uk-just-lost-its-biggest-funder-a7909886.html

 

[Woosh]

or possibly we are more stupid than we look and are walking away from something that we didn't understand.

that was a loan, not a gift.
I think the UK is still one major shareholder in the EIB.

 

[anotherkiwi]

None relevant to their economic success that I posted about though.

And the criticisms you raise can easily be balanced by non-economic advantages, such things as their huge success with environmental matters like recycling and solar power utilisation and their high standards of civil discipline and obedience to law.

German comedy? Try this one.
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Economic success at the expense of people working full time is rather relevant, their system is not without its flaws. I guess we can trust them to work that one out by themselves though.

Germany has building regulations which mean many homes are energy positive. That is an idea the UK could copy, money not spent on heating can be spent on food so it is good for the not so well off. Solar water heating works even on cloudy days! Even in the UK!

 

[Zlatan]

In the third millenium Britain sermons are pointless. The most likely reaction is one word, commencing with bo- and ending with -ks.
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Your London friendliness is winning through there Flecc.

 

[flecc]

Economic success at the expense of people working full time is rather relevant, their system is not without its flaws. I guess we can trust them to work that one out by themselves though.

But their wages have been rising about three times the speed of the UK's, so hardly all bad news.
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[flecc]

Your London friendliness is winning through there Flecc.

But I did say in Britain, not London, which we all know is a completely different place.

Note the friendly London smile!
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