Fairy story of the day award, and well deserved[emoji1]
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Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
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Wonder no longer, we can't even come up with any plan that makes sense on leaving the EU, so there is no chance of coming out with any trade deals where we aren't taken to the cleaners by the Tory Muppet show.
And who exactly is the "US" are you referring to? you surely don't entertain the idea that any deal agreed will benefit anyone other than members of the Elite?
Here's a test for you come up with something that proves that their intent is to benefit the people rather than the ruling class.
Yesterday's attack was a failure because it failed to achieve its aim and that was to inflict long term economic damage. The attack was intended to strike a level of fear into people that caused them to drastically alter their daily business and to cause division and conflict. The previous attacks in France, Germany and other countries around the world also failed as will future attacks. The Sousse incident could be classed as successful because it destroyed the tourism industry and a large proportion of the economy, but certainly the attack yesterday was a complete failure.
Whilst I may not dispute the motivation for yesterday's attack, there is never any excuse for the type of killings which we witnessed. The sort of people who carried out that atrocity are a mutation, and a corruption of the human being. Both they and their beliefs emanate from a medieval type culture which has no right to exist and should not be allowed to exist. The pig who carried out the murders has been slain and the name and the life of the pig will soon be forgotten.
This is not the correct time for hand-wringing apologists to be providing excuses.
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As in most things you hold forth on 'tillson', you are wrong in your contention. You fail to understand the purpose of terrorism and you don't understand the meaning of the word.
You might wish to consult any good quality dictionary for the meaning but in addition, you could consult Wikipedia for a fuller explanation and a few statistics.
To pompously proclaim that an event which left 3 innocent people dead, dozens injured and caused massive disruption to both parliament and central London, not to mention the diversion of many important NHS resources in order to service the emergency resulting from the evil work of one man, was a failure, is frankly ludicrous.
As I mentioned in my post, most people who have business requiring them to enter and spend time in central London have no alternative other than to put the matter out of their mind and carry on as normal - such is life! Others however, may well be inclined to ration or eschew visits to the capital while the safety of the public cannot be be better safeguarded than currently.
Fortunately, on this occasion the murderer worked single-handedly and was not equipped with explosives or a lethal firearm otherwise the body count could have been far greater.
Terrorists will happily attack any target they believe might cause damage to people, buildings, public utilities - anything indeed that creates fear among the population but their primary aim is not about destroying the economy of states although that is a bonus for obvious reasons but should be regarded as collateral damage. History informs us that terrorists can be right wing or left wing in terms of political labels but whatever the motives of Khalid Masood, you can be sure that he is being celebrated today by certain groups in the UK and in many places abroad, not for his failure, but for his successful achievement against the British government and the British people.
The notion of other states according solidarity may be respectful diplomatically but it is an empty gesture, meaningless to those bereaved by the lunatic actions of a deranged creature.
I cannot speak for others but in my mind there is no doubt that the terrorist acts we have seen in the UK in recent years are a direct result of the decisions and actions of Tony Blair, Jack Straw and their ilk, based on deliberate lies concerning the middle-east. David Cameron's government could have taken a different approach to that situation but continued with policies in regard to that region which ensured the British people would continue to be placed in harm's way.
Tom
I am reluctant to call any person a terrorist. It doesn't advance any argument, in fact it successfully negates any discussion. Label someone a terrorist and one need not engage any further. It is as meaningless as the phrase " war on terror" if war is not terror , then what is?
A colleague of mine once put it to me in respect of Northern Ireland but it has universal applicability
The grammar is as follows...
I am a patriot
You are a nationalist ( or unionist)
He is a terrorist.
The actions of that person were appalling and my sympathy and condolences to all who have been affected. Regrettably there will be others who see this as a template eg Antwerp
No-one, including all contributors to this forum can know the motivation for that attack. Was he mentally disturbed, an egotistical suicide wanting to go out with a bang, a commited soldier of Islam or whatever . We will never know and to a point does it matter?
As a tactic it was successful. It gained him fame or infamy, distruptive of traffic around the most famous landmark in the UK for what now looks like two days. It halted proceedings in your parliament. It provided publicity oxygen to the IS group, if that indeed was his motivation.
The timing of the terrorist attack in London was perfect justification for Trump's migration ban.
Not that I approve of either.
Not that I approve of either.
I believe that it is you who fails to understand. You have failed to understand that the London attack was a comprehensive failure and this is because you have not grasped what the aim of terrorism is.
The purpose of terrorism is to produce a lasting coercive affect. The short term disruption is a by-product. In other words to induce a long term alteration to people's pattern of behaviour. This then has an economic and / or socially destabilising consequence, as we saw in Tunisia. This is the true aim. London will not suffer any social division or any long term economic consequences as a result of yesterday.
The immediate aftereffects in terms of absorbing public services is short-lived. The terrorist desires the long term coercive affect mentioned above. Since yesterday, the ambulances are now back in service, police are patrolling, the hospitals have stabilised / are caring for the injured and people will soon return to their normal routine, either through necessity or choice. Therefore, the terrorist has failed, London will quickly recover, life will quickly return to normal, the terrorist will be forgotten and his life was totally meaningless and devoid of any worth.
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I fully agree, the authorities have only assumed his motivation was terrorism.
He had a very long criminal record, and those who have been extensively exposed as convicted defendants to the legal system with all its faults often become deeply embittered. From time to time one of them lashes out in anger, sometimes against society in general, sometimes against specific elements. The case of Raoul Moat is one such instance.
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I think if you were right flecc the geography would be almost random, in this case it was anything but...could be coincidence, might just be a deranged mind carrying out deranged actions.
IMHO both the location and the arrests suggest otherwise.
... Even deranged persons might have method to their madness.. The arrests and searches may mean anything and everything, from the illusion of action , to settling scores , to actually generating intelligence
Sadly the time when we felt that the powers that be are on the side of the "Angels" is past as you have pointed out.
And all the vaunted surveillance and "intelligence" in the world cannot prevent what can only be described as lunatics (regardless of their motivation) taking deadly and suicidal action.
Only a complete change (which will not happen) in Foreign policies and nefarious alliances that should be dropped could change that.
We need to withdraw from waging aggresive wars over resources, and justifying murder of innocents as "collateral damage"
Even then it is likely it wold take a Generation to undo the damage.
No more likely than this country being run wisely i'm afraid.
From the Telegraph This morning
"
Hundreds of civil service jobs for Brexit negotiators have not been filled days before talks formally begin, watchdog warns "
Everything's under Control Gromit!
Springs to mind.
"The Government has created jobs for over 1,000 civil servants to negotiate Brexit but only filled two thirds of them just days before talks formally start, the publc spending watchdog has found."
What we need is some Qualified immigrant EU applicants.............Oh Dear, have I written the wrong thing?
"
Hundreds of civil service jobs for Brexit negotiators have not been filled days before talks formally begin, watchdog warns "
Everything's under Control Gromit!
Springs to mind.
"The Government has created jobs for over 1,000 civil servants to negotiate Brexit but only filled two thirds of them just days before talks formally start, the publc spending watchdog has found."
What we need is some Qualified immigrant EU applicants.............Oh Dear, have I written the wrong thing?
Thank goodness someone understands the root of the problem! We in the west, or more precisely the UK, gave the people of the middle-east a cause due to our vile treatment of the Arab nations as demonstrated in British foreign policy over several generations. That same foreign policy extended over parts of Africa, India, Australia, the Americas and, closer to home, Ireland and Scotland.
Even today, long after the term 'empire' was dropped, the British government continues to hold dominion over far-flung parts of the world that the vast majority of citizens could not pinpoint on a map.
While waging war against poorly armed and poorly defended countries in the middle-east, the British government has repeatedly proclaimed that the UK supports Israel and declares that Israel has every right to defend itself against aggression. Given that millions in north Africa and the middle-east are of the moslem faith, it is hardly surprising that militant elements in those places subjected to various forms of abuse and mistreatment at the hands of the UK and its friends might feel hatred towards the people who have caused their ongoing distress.
It is no different from the situation that provoked the Scots and the Irish to rebel at various times against the bullying English crown and subsequently, the British parliament. The Americans and the Indians eventually kicked us out of their territories because they were big enough and strong enough whereas the little countries continued to be mistreated by their English masters. That is ongoing - witness the attitude towards both Scotland and the people of N.Ireland over 'Brexit' from the party which represents only the rich and the land-owning elements of society through the oligarchy that poses as democratic government in the UK.
Perhaps if the UK government were to dissociate this country from Israel, Saudi Arabia, the USA and the UAE, we might gain some respect from those nations persecuted by ourselves in conjunction with the aforementioned. It might also help, eventually, to alter the way in which this country is viewed by those militant elements who currently believe we are fair game in their evil, revengeful campaign of terror. We can never win against the kind of enemy prepared to act as we have witnessed so many times in recent years since the 2001 events in New York demonstrated what can be achieved by determined people with nothing to lose. It is for that reason, that those who would claim outrages such as 7/7 and Wednesday's lone-wolf suicide mission are wrong to declare such events as failures. To do so is to fail to understand terrorism and if there were no terrorism, there would be no anti-terrorism branch within our security services, a great many of whom were quickly on the scene at Westminster on Wednesday, unsurprisingly too late to be of any use.
Just how does one explain to the families of those murdered by an Islamist-inspired nutter on Wednesday or to the family of Jo Cox MP, brutally slain last year by another kind of nutter, that it's ok - the outrage was a failure so nothing to worry about? Let's all just carry on regardless. There can be no doubt that Wednesday's shocking events will not be the last act of terrorism on British soil and that will continue as long as the UK and its friends treat other human beings so badly that they feel there is no point in living in this world. Selective foreign aid for some while only missiles, bombs and bullets for others is a strange kind of foreign policy.
Tom
back to brexit, JC Juncker said 'brexit is a failure and a tragedy' (for the EU).
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/24/brexit-a-failure-and-a-tragedy-says-ec-chief-jean-claude-juncker
The next step is a sensible FTA. Common sense is returning.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/24/brexit-a-failure-and-a-tragedy-says-ec-chief-jean-claude-juncker
The next step is a sensible FTA. Common sense is returning.
RED CARD!
Juncker said: “It is a failure and a tragedy. I will be sad, as I was sad when the vote in the referendum took place in Britain. For me, it is a tragedy."
I am not reading (for the EU) in that article!
My opinion is that it is a failure for the EU and a tragedy for the UK...
I reckon he knows that it is a failure and a tragedy for the EU.
The EU should have offered Cameron a better deal, brexit could have been avoided.
Even if Mme Le Pen does not win this time, her message chimes with a lot of Europeans.
The EU should not have enlarged so quickly.
The rules of the Euro should have been more flexible, Greece should not have been allowed to join.
So before the EU moves ahead with more 'integration', it has to be minded that it does not become a superstate, a new empire.
The EU should have offered Cameron a better deal, brexit could have been avoided.
Even if Mme Le Pen does not win this time, her message chimes with a lot of Europeans.
The EU should not have enlarged so quickly.
The rules of the Euro should have been more flexible, Greece should not have been allowed to join.
So before the EU moves ahead with more 'integration', it has to be minded that it does not become a superstate, a new empire.
You haven't been reading...
2. Better than a massive rebate and the special conditions you already have? No comment...
3. She doesn't have a clue, that is why her message gets through to those of a similar mindset
4. Your (the UK's) fault, probably a US sponsored sabotage attempt
5. US's fault they got Greece in to sabotage the Euro
6. That is also the US point of view but empires are out of fashion since about 1950, time the UK and the US woke up to that fact...
The EU failed miserably in the Balkans conflict. Greece's accounts shouldn't have been trusted. I can't see much else that has gone wrong in 60 years.
1. You should have said it was your opinion and not his, we have enough alternative facts as it is without your help...
2. Better than a massive rebate and the special conditions you already have? No comment...
3. She doesn't have a clue, that is why her message gets through to those of a similar mindset
4. Your (the UK's) fault, probably a US sponsored sabotage attempt
5. US's fault they got Greece in to sabotage the Euro
6. That is also the US point of view but empires are out of fashion since about 1950, time the UK and the US woke up to that fact...
The EU failed miserably in the Balkans conflict. Greece's accounts shouldn't have been trusted. I can't see much else that has gone wrong in 60 years.