Brexit, for once some facts.

[gray198]

Perhaps you can site some evidence where the remain side has made that assertion?
I googled
"remain side claims that leave side wants to stop immigration"
Not a single response they all mentioned things like
"Will not stop, or will not solve"
The truth is not
"the remain side keep peddling the lie about brexit being about stopping migration

The truth actually is that the leave side lied in saying that the Remain side had said that!
And as I asserted earlier the Government has said it will NOT stop the flow of immigrants into low paid and service jobs,, how do you square that with this?

I just took part in a Telegraph poll on the subject and 44% who voted leave expected the immigration level to FALL

You have been peddling another Fake Truth haven't you?

There have been many interviews on TV where the comment has been made that our Health Service only survives because of immigration and how will it cope when they can no longer come. If not said directly certainly implied that thios country will collapse without foreign nurses etc. The NHS needs to get

The message that migrants are not welcome here is getting through to them,so it wont be long before we will be going out to India,Spain,the Philippines saying sorry about our current racist and xenophobic attitudes and have an employment drive to get them back.
All the hospitals and care homes in my area (East Kent) have signs outside desperate for staff,where are we going to get the staff?
KudosDave

If the management of the NHS got their heads out of their backsides and started managing it properly there should be no need for staff shortages. I am sure there are plenty of people in this country who would work for them if they were given the chance. My daughter in law worked as a nurse for years being qualified to degree level and working in several areas. Left to have children and has just tried to get back in 2 different hospitals but been refused. Insanity. They are then quite happy to bring in foreign staff who cannot speak English and some with dubious qualifications. I wonder how many times this is repeated. It doesn't matter though we'll just ask for another few billion and blame old people. Oh and in the meantime we'll treat anyone who turns up for free. Very easy to be so slapdash when it's taxpayers money

 

[Kudoscycles]

I don't have that argument, things certainly aren't fine as they are.

But if we can't do better within, when Germany with exactly the same EU rules does so well, how are we likely to do better when outside on our own as a little guy among the big boys?

Hence the argument I made to you long ago. If we can do so well, lets prove it while within the protection of the EU. Germany and some other northern EU nations show that is perfectly possible. Then if successful we can cast off the mooring rope and sail away into a known successful future. Why gamble when we can aim for a dead cert?
.

We don't have to wait for Brexit,we all know that many in the poorer areas voted to have investment....if you live in those areas please advise what May and Hammond have done to help these people.
Whilst May says that this government is for everyone,I don't see any signs that she really means that. Nobody from this government even mentions anything other than 'getting their power back'
They better start doing something or at least suggest they are doing something,otherwise I can see a lot of trouble from the 'winners of the referendum',they will want to feel they have won something.
Once the shock of the result and the fall of the pound value is controlled by business,the only effect I can see is that we all will pay 10-20% more for everything,I cannot believe Leavers intended that...once these prices rise they will not come back down.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

There have been many interviews on TV where the comment has been made that our Health Service only survives because of immigration and how will it cope when they can no longer come. If not said directly certainly implied that thios country will collapse without foreign nurses etc. The NHS needs to get

If the management of the NHS got their heads out of their backsides and started managing it properly there should be no need for staff shortages. I am sure there are plenty of people in this country who would work for them if they were given the chance. My daughter in law worked as a nurse for years being qualified to degree level and working in several areas. Left to have children and has just tried to get back in 2 different hospitals but been refused. Insanity. They are then quite happy to bring in foreign staff who cannot speak English and some with dubious qualifications. I wonder how many times this is repeated. It doesn't matter though we'll just ask for another few billion and blame old people. Oh and in the meantime we'll treat anyone who turns up for free. Very easy to be so slapdash when it's taxpayers money

Do you know why your daughter has been refused,all the hospitals in East Kent are urgent for staff.
We seem not to train enough medical staff in the UK and the way the junior doctors were treated over their contracts I understand many are looking to work abroad....hehe,in the EU !!!!
KudosDave

 

[Wicky]

Absolute utter nonsense...every single word.
At start of WW2 the doom merchants said within a month of bombing civil order would break down, it didn't in 5 years of it. They said for every ton of bombs dropped 50 people would die, it was actually around a tenth of that. When we came out if ERM the same types predicted massive recession. It didn't happen. When we decided against adopting euro such as yourself predicted catastrophe. In 80's the negative types drummed along by both media and rock stars told us we,d be dying in droves from AIDS. Millions were spent on units at all hospitals that eventually realised it was nonsense.

You and I are not economists OG , not even poor ones. So how on earth you can make such catastrophic negative predictions over course of 11,000 posts defies any kind of sense or logic. King summed this whole situation up, we will come out of eu and in ten years time think it was all a storm in a tea cup.
1 in 10 people world wide live in eu. We are perhaps loosing some trade with 10% of world to get unlimited access to the other 90%..
Trouble is there is just so much BS from folk with vested interest to stay and closed insular minds.
If we stay it will be amongst biggest lost opportunities this country had ever had.

Poll Tax Riots - In the same year Thatcher resigned and Major promptly abolished it.

And in other news just in that wasn't emblazoned on the side of the leave campaign bus. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39042876

"Exit will not come "at a discount or at zero cost", ....Reports suggest the UK could have to pay the EU up to 60 billion euros (£51bn) after Brexit talks start."

 

[Kudoscycles]

Couldn't of put it better myself.....from the Lords today.

So, is the outcome of last June’s referendum to be interpreted as meaning that a majority of the United Kingdom want to leave the EU, whatever the terms? The government clearly thinks so. But on a matter of this importance has not the government a duty to be sure before our departure becomes final? My lords, one has to ask why those who base their arguments for Brexit on the will of the people are now opposed to consulting the people on the outcome of the negotiations. One has to suspect that they fear that they will get a different answer.

Should they fear a different answer?
Certainly they are doing everything to stop the public having a vote on the outcome of their negotiations,will it be that bad?
KudosDave

 

[oldgroaner]

But Theresa May has had 6 years at the home office to legally control non EU migration and failed miserably so why should those who have a wish post Brexit to control it,have any more confidence in her ability to do so.
Every question to this government seems to be making special cases for every immigrant.
The farmers say they cant do without the EU migrants,so the government say its ok provided they have a job to come to.....most have,so no change there.
The NHS is desperate for trained staff,my local hospital is desperate for staff,it seems mostly Indians.....we need these people,so no change there.
The City of London needs the highly qualified personnel,the banks have been told they are a special case....they are needed,so no change there.
The universities and research institutes are very short of trained personnel,so no change there.
The hospitality industry is heavily manned by EU migrants....Brits don't want to do most of these jobs....so no change there.
Perhaps someone will tell me who are the migrants we don't need?
KudosDave

TRUMP

 

[oldgroaner]

There have been many interviews on TV where the comment has been made that our Health Service only survives because of immigration and how will it cope when they can no longer come. If not said directly certainly implied that thios country will collapse without foreign nurses etc. The NHS needs to get

If the management of the NHS got their heads out of their backsides and started managing it properly there should be no need for staff shortages. I am sure there are plenty of people in this country who would work for them if they were given the chance. My daughter in law worked as a nurse for years being qualified to degree level and working in several areas. Left to have children and has just tried to get back in 2 different hospitals but been refused. Insanity. They are then quite happy to bring in foreign staff who cannot speak English and some with dubious qualifications. I wonder how many times this is repeated. It doesn't matter though we'll just ask for another few billion and blame old people. Oh and in the meantime we'll treat anyone who turns up for free. Very easy to be so slapdash when it's taxpayers money

So your complaint isn't against the EU is it?
So how will Brexit solve the problem? the Government will simply continue letting these people in
IT HAS CONFIRMED THAT.

 

[oldtom]

Merely about having the ability to control it.

The UK has always had that ability and it is in place now. Border control is not about stopping all entry to the UK. You must remember free movement of people is a two-way street and thousands of UK nationals migrate each year both to EU states and to hundreds of other destinations worldwide.

Tom

 

[Wicky]

"If the management of the NHS got their heads out of their backsides"

Nursing place numbers and funding are a govt thing - and folk are not filling up what places are on offer. Bursaries are being cut as govt tries to get Nurses degree qualified (to do more Doctors jobs) and get HCAs (Health Care Assistants) do do in turn Nurse's jobs, with domestics in sight in the near future to perform basic patient care.

https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/education/hundreds-of-nurse-training-places-likely-to-be-unfilled/7009741.article

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/21/nhs-bursaries-for-student-nurses-will-end-in-2017-government-confirms

Basically everyone acting up a role!

 

[oldtom]

Many of the 'Brexidiots' who still can't understand how stupid their independent 'Britain Ltd' fantasy is would do well to read this report from Vox Political, yet another matter not reported in an even-handed manner by the tory media wing.

This is one further example of fascist-inspired hatred, in the same mould as the Jo Cox murder and that of a Polish man in Harlow, not to mention the thousands of other hate crimes across the country reported by police. The evil scumbags in the article, who represent rank and file Brexit voters perfectly, were undoubtedly influenced by the tory government and their evil accomplices in UKIP and the whole gamut of right-wing extremist organisations intent on bigoted hatred of foreigners, paedophiles, the disabled and immigrants living in the UK, including those born here.

How many more must die because of the perverted outpourings from Johnson, Farage and every single advocate of this ridiculous notion about 'taking back control' and 'regaining sovereignty'? This movement is way beyond xenophobia and is better labelled out and out racism of the most vicious kind. Every single advocate of 'Brexit' bears personal responsibility for these deaths by providing support for fascism and its rabble-rousing recruiting agents abusing the right of free speech to preach their hate-filled message just like those Muslim clerics they have reviled at every opportunity through the tory media.

You can read about it here:

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2017/02/21/the-conservative-government-and-the-media-demanded-the-murder-of-brendan-mason-heres-how/

Tom

 

[tillson]

Many of the 'Brexidiots' who still can't understand how stupid their independent 'Britain Ltd' fantasy is would do well to read this report from Vox Political, yet another matter not reported in an even-handed manner by the tory media wing.

This is one further example of fascist-inspired hatred, in the same mould as the Jo Cox murder and that of a Polish man in Harlow, not to mention the thousands of other hate crimes across the country reported by police. The evil scumbags in the article, who represent rank and file Brexit voters perfectly, were undoubtedly influenced by the tory government and their evil accomplices in UKIP and the whole gamut of right-wing extremist organisations intent on bigoted hatred of foreigners, paedophiles, the disabled and immigrants living in the UK, including those born here.

How many more must die because of the perverted outpourings from Johnson, Farage and every single advocate of this ridiculous notion about 'taking back control' and 'regaining sovereignty'? This movement is way beyond xenophobia and is better labelled out and out racism of the most vicious kind. Every single advocate of 'Brexit' bears personal responsibility for these deaths by providing support for fascism and its rabble-rousing recruiting agents abusing the right of free speech to preach their hate-filled message just like those Muslim clerics they have reviled at every opportunity through the tory media.

You can read about it here:

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2017/02/21/the-conservative-government-and-the-media-demanded-the-murder-of-brendan-mason-heres-how/

Tom

He's really lost it this time

 

[tillson]

Couldn't of put it better myself.....from the Lords today.

So, is the outcome of last June’s referendum to be interpreted as meaning that a majority of the United Kingdom want to leave the EU, whatever the terms? The government clearly thinks so. But on a matter of this importance has not the government a duty to be sure before our departure becomes final? My lords, one has to ask why those who base their arguments for Brexit on the will of the people are now opposed to consulting the people on the outcome of the negotiations. One has to suspect that they fear that they will get a different answer.

Should they fear a different answer?
Certainly they are doing everything to stop the public having a vote on the outcome of their negotiations,will it be that bad?
KudosDave

That's a reasonable argument / question and it deserves a full answer from the government.

 

[Kudoscycles]

That's a reasonable argument / question and it deserves a full answer from the government.

But,I suspect that Theresa May was present today in the Lords to determine what amendments are likely and plotting to stop those amendments when they 'ping-pong' back to the commons.
KudosDave

 

[oldtom]

Specially for the stupid people, unable to understand that they have been brainwashed all their lives and continue to be, here is another example of how this is achieved, in this case via the British Bullshining Conservative propaganda agency:



Tom

 

[tillson]

Specially for the stupid people, unable to understand that they have been brainwashed all their lives and continue to be, here is another example of how this is achieved, in this case via the British Bullshining Conservative propaganda agency:

View attachment 17876

Tom

Yes and it was a Labour government that introduced the majority of the PFI arrangements across the whole of the public sector. Despite the warnings, they went ahead with it and how badly it has turned out. Who is accountable now?

 

[tillson]

The evil scumbags in the article, who represent rank and file Brexit voters perfectly, were undoubtedly influenced by the tory government and their evil accomplices in UKIP and the whole gamut of right-wing extremist organisations intent on bigoted hatred of foreigners, paedophiles, the disabled and immigrants living in the UK, including those born here.

I see that paedophiles have crept onto the list. Do you think that you could add Paediatricians as well? It's just that it gives me and the other BREXIT voters more targets when we go out Paedo-Bashing of an evening. Thank you.

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Daily Fail
"
Low-skilled migration to continue for 'years and years' even after Britain has left the EU, warns David Davis

• Brexit Secretary said leaving EU wouldn't mean end to low-skilled migration
• Theresa May has vowed to end free movement of labour from the EU
• But Mr Davis’s comments suggests sympathy to concerns from business and public sector about the impact of a sudden end to the supply of cheap labour

Needless to say the reader's comments are even crazier than usual!
Here's an example
euisnolongerrelevant, yingtangho, United Kingdom, 4 hours ago

Stuff the fat cats and big business, you'd better have a rethink on this Davis you Clown. One of the main reasons for brexit was immigration and people want it stopped now, not in 10 years time NOW. Just what are we supposed to do with all the new arrivals when the predicted 15 MILLION jobs in this country are lost to robots/automation. WE DO NOT WANT ANYMORE . And far from being beneficial to our economy they ARE A DRAIN ON OUR WELFARE AND PUBLIC SERVICES/ How can anyone on minimum wage paying no, or very little tax, yet taking £10s of thousands a year in benefits and services possibly benefit us.


Actually this individual worries needlessly, as after all we should have automated our industry while we still had one, and who in their right mind would invest in manufacturing here?
The money went to China and the Far east where cost are less years ago.
That must be one of the best "Fake News" items going around, the notion that we can lose 15 million jobs to automation,i would love to see proof of that porkie!

The ONS gave these recent figures
There were 23.20 million people working full-time, 235,000 more than for a year earlier. There were 8.56 million people working part-time, 107,000 more than for a year earlier.
The manufacturing industry employs around 2.6 million people in the UK and, in 2013, accounted for 10% or £150.7 billion of national economic output.

It makes you wonder where the money to automate will come from, why it hasn't already happened, and where it will be applied, doesn't it?

 

[oldgroaner]

Yes and it was a Labour government that introduced the majority of the PFI arrangements across the whole of the public sector. Despite the warnings, they went ahead with it and how badly it has turned out. Who is accountable now?

Labour Government? did DPI's come out in 1945 then?

 

[oldgroaner]

Good old Fake News!
"
Donald Trump's claims his team had no contact with Russia during campaign contradicted by Moscow officials
US President has angrily denied his top advisers had conversations with Kremlin representatives
Two days after Mr Trump’s election victory, the Russian deputy foreign minister, Sergei Ryabkov, said his government had been in touch with Mr Trump’s advisers during the campaign.

“I cannot say that all, but a number of them maintained contacts with Russian representatives”, Mr Ryabkov told the Interfax news agency. Mr Trump’s team immediately denied the claims."
The New York Times reported earlier this month that transcripts from conversations intercepted by US agencies revealed contact between Russian officials and a number of unnamed members of Mr Trump’s top team."

There are lies, Damned lies, and Presidential Terminological Inexactitudes.

 

[tillson]

Good old Fake News!
"
Donald Trump's claims his team had no contact with Russia during campaign contradicted by Moscow officials
US President has angrily denied his top advisers had conversations with Kremlin representatives
Two days after Mr Trump’s election victory, the Russian deputy foreign minister, Sergei Ryabkov, said his government had been in touch with Mr Trump’s advisers during the campaign.

“I cannot say that all, but a number of them maintained contacts with Russian representatives”, Mr Ryabkov told the Interfax news agency. Mr Trump’s team immediately denied the claims."
The New York Times reported earlier this month that transcripts from conversations intercepted by US agencies revealed contact between Russian officials and a number of unnamed members of Mr Trump’s top team."

There are lies, Damned lies, and Presidential Terminological Inexactitudes.

Left wing lovey media hype. Hilary lost. They need to move on.