Brexit, for once some facts.

[anotherkiwi]

That's because you have something special to offer whereas to the paper pushers in our town halls, a bike is a bike is a bike right?

If price is the only factor, yes. If on the other hand you push the after sales service side (that is what you guys are best at after all!) and local jobs etc. They do have a special language and once you have pierced its secrets and can communicate on the same level it is relatively easy.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

You may have much higher ethics than the average bike dealers.

yes, and that's my point. If you're pushing eBikes to tender, even if you restrict it to the UK, you're going to now find you're competing against big UK guns, like Trek, Scott etc etc. They can easily beat you on price, because they can loose this bikes as simply a marketing expense and make a loss on them.

You've got to stop blaming the open market of the EU for this. It offers many UK exporters a host of benefits and supports loads of jobs. Its a positive.

 

[Woosh]

hey can easily beat you on price

They don't even have to do the dirty work themselves.
There are plenty of EU dealers out there for that.

 

[Jimod]

That's because you have something special to offer whereas to the paper pushers in our town halls, a bike is a bike is a bike right?

.

Then blame your council, not the EU rules. Your council did not need to take the cheapest quote.

 

[Woosh]

Then blame your council, not the EU rules. Your council did not need to take the cheapest quote.

They did not take the cheapest quote, they bought a better bike at a good discounted price.
I object to the level of discount.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

They don't even have to do the dirty work themselves.
There are plenty of EU dealers out there for that.

A big UK distributor or brand will be able to beat any "dealers" quote. There is no way a shop will be able to beat people further up the supply chain if they are competing on price. Tendering is about successfully justifying your price, not about being the cheapest.

 

[Kudoscycles]

I have won public tenders against large companies, I won by offering personalized services they couldn't offer. Public tenders require a little bit of cunning but it can be done.

Yeh,Rolls Royce offered personalised services and got fined £650 million.....only joking!!!!
KudosDave

 

[Woosh]

Tendering is about successfully justifying your price, not about being the cheapest.

I agree. They did not take the cheapest. Read my previous posts.
It's the level of discount that I object to in this particular case.
Assume for a moment that I work with you. Suppose I have a tender for my local council for 100 bikes to loan to the local companies (typical scheme to encourage cycle to work). Let's say I talk it over with you and you want me to get it at any cost. You'd talk to KTM to get extra support. It will then be easy for me to quote for the best and most suitable bike for the job, something like your Macina 8 XL at a deep, deep discounted price.
I would stand a much better chance of winning than offering my own bikes. That's the reality when you have support of larger EU companies.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Brexit seems to be the only show in town. It appears our government is spending so much time on Brexit ,using an undermanned civil service that the normal jobs of government is going to pot.
The NHS and Social Care is being ignored.
I didn't know that hospitals paid business rates.
Is it true that 19 million people in the UK are below a survival income,I thought that Theresa May was the party for everyone,within those 19 million are I suspect a lot of Leave voters,what is Brexit going to achieve to improve their lot?
KudosDave

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

I agree. They did not take the cheapest. Read my previous posts.
It's the level of discount that I object to in this particular case.
Assume for a moment that I work with you. Suppose I have a tender for my local council for 100 bikes to loan to the local companies (typical scheme to encourage cycle to work). Let's say I talk it over with you and you want me to get it at any cost. You'd talk to KTM to get extra support. It will then be easy for me to quote for the best and most suitable bike for the job, something like your Macina 8 XL at a deep, deep discounted price.
I would stand a much better chance of winning than offering my own bikes. That's the reality when you have support of larger EU companies.

Yes, our posts crossed. Your problem is with competition, not with the EU rules.

Your issues would be the same outside the EU, because UK companies can do what you've described, easily.

Its not about the EU, its about you now competing in an eBike market that has big players involved with big marketing pots, many of whom are now UK based.

You're not going to turn back the clock to keep the eBike market to yourself.

Sorry.

 

[Woosh]

Your issues would be the same outside the EU, because UK companies can do what you've described, easily.

I disagree.
The problem is the EU rules. If my council does not have to advertise to the whole of the EU, it would only bring in UK competitors. If I work with you and a guy offers a big discount on KTM, I will take it up with you and I reckon you'd have little choice other than offering me the same deal.

 

[Woosh]

what is Brexit going to achieve to improve their lot?

A new, more caring government?
(not a tory government)

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

I disagree.
The problem is the EU rules. If my council does not have to advertise to the whole of the EU, it would only bring in UK competitors. If I work with you and a guy offers a big discount on KTM, I will take it up with you and I reckon you'd have little choice other than offering me the same deal.

How can you disagree?? So we leave the EU, you're now "just" competing with UK based firms. I could decide we want to make a marketing push in a certain area and invest £10,000 in getting a load of bikes and giving them to dealers to help them win some tenders. How would you as Woosh compete with KTM dealers "giving" bikes away. You couldn't, so your problem isn't the EU rules, its that you don't like people discounting... the EU / UK will have that problem, even if we leave the EU.

Why would we have to offer you the same deal???

 

[Woosh]

you still can't see it. If it's restricted to UK companies, I can complain to you because I know where the real push is coming from. If it goes to a Dutch dealer, there is no easy way to know who the real pushers are.
I used to sell a lot of PCs to colleges until Dell wanted my customers so I do know how the big guys operate.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Being able to compete on an EU wide basis for public tenders has improved things and helps fight the corruption we once had. Here in the Basque country old style cronyism corruption still operates in the public sector, we need more EU competition not less!

 

[Woosh]

Being able to compete on an EU wide basis for public tenders has improved things and helps fight the corruption we once had.

huh?
you may reduce the smaller kind of corruption you get from casinos and brothels around the Med but for large public work, I reckon the EU offers less vetting to outsiders. They are the ones that can offer cheap deals.

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Independent
"
Right-wing press undermined rule of law in Brexit case coverage, says Supreme Court chief"

Well what do you expect from the Daily Mail? they are Enemies of the People,
Their readers just don't realise that front page damns them as Traitors to the rule of Law, they should have been made to publicly apologise or lose their right to publish.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

you still can't see it. If it's restricted to UK companies, I can complain to you because I know where the real push is coming from. If it goes to a Dutch dealer, there is no easy way to know who the real pushers are.
I used to sell a lot of PCs to colleges until Dell wanted my customers so I do know how the big guys operate.

that's nonsense logic.

Which UK company is making eBikes from scratch... NO ONE.

So using us an example, but it could just as easily be Trek, Haibike, Kudos, etc etc. You find you've lost a tender to us direct, or to one of our dealers. So you complain... big deal?? You won't know if the dealer is making a loss, the brand, or maybe the supplier had a load of excess stock that they wanted rid of and used it to help with this tender and classed it as marketing. Your problem is with supply chains, not the EU.

 

[flecc]

Brexit seems to be the only show in town. It appears our government is spending so much time on Brexit ,using an undermanned civil service that the normal jobs of government is going to pot.

I forecast exactly this earlier in the thread shortly after the vote result was known. And it will get progressively worse as we get deeper into the negotiations and departments are called upon to quickly examine the effects of possible negotiating moves.
.
The complexity of Brexit as it progresses is going to swamp the civil service's capacity and abilities.
.

 

[Woosh]

that's nonsense logic.

your standpoint is front the distribution. If you were to spend hours and days prepping the tender document and then discover that among the competitors, there are EU companies that you have never heard of, you'd feel the chill. Trust me on this.
You'd ask yourself the question: why do I and my co-workers pay the taxes so that the deal can go to an EU guy that has never invested in this country and nobody has heard of?