Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldtom]

The mess is so very short term.
We are at a point where parliament is back in control.
And the Pound is steady.
If you are looking for someone to blame, how about Mr Corbyn?

Seriously, you are going from bad to worse!

Tell us at what point parliament was not in control.

Then tell us why the pound being 'steady' but worth much less abroad than pre-referendum is good for us - we know how it affects exports. Up and down like a yo-yo around a much lower level on international money exchanges isn't usually referred to as steady, well not in a good way.

Finally, when was Jeremy Corbyn Prime Minister and responsible for the debacle brought about by right-wing extremists?

Tom

 

[Woosh]

Seriously, you are going from bad to worse!

Tell us at what point parliament was not in control.

Then tell us why the pound being 'steady' but worth much less abroad than pre-referendum is good for us - we know how it affects exports. Up and down like a yo-yo around a much lower level on international money exchanges isn't usually referred to as steady, well not in a good way.

Tom

Tom, the value of the Pound is not as important as its steadiness, trust me.

.

Finally, when was Jeremy Corbyn Prime Minister and responsible for the debacle brought about by right-wing extremists?

Tom

Parliament can't function without an effective opposition. Mr Corbyn is paid the same salary as the PM - his performance is deplorable.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Let's be brutally frank about the downside of freedom of movement. It is a Thatcherite economic model, it benefits the industrialists by passing the cost of factory closures to other local authorities while supplying cheaper labour to the least regulated industrial countries like the UK. Why didn't UK governments use the tools they have to curb immigration? this is because they want growth, which keeps them in power.
The EU will have to fix it, brexit will make them act sooner rather than later, that's a bonus.

so do you support freedom of movement between Scotland and England? Yorkshire and London?

What about if we sign a trade deal with Australia, would you support freedom of movement with them?

I'm not saying there aren't downsides, but I'm saying we're a global market place now, fighting something that many many people think is a positive isn't something that is a sustainable battle. The younger generations don't have a problem with it, because we've grown up with it.

That's why all the big cities / university towns with the highest number of migrants voted remain, where as places like Stoke and Sunderland with pretty much zero migrants voted leave. They are afraid of something that they've been told to be afraid of by the Daily Mail.

 

[flecc]

Would we see one day a grand coalition, German style?

I do think it's possible, since the fragmention into several parties is being bolstered by disillusionment with the traditional parties.

With the country so split at present in a number of different ways, and little prospect of unity while the long drawn out Brexit process continues, a Grand Coalition might eventually be the only way to reunite as one public.

Meanwhile the UK will continue to look like this thread, with each individual being the only one who's right.

After 500 pages and 10,000 posts!
.

 

[mike killay]

I'm right....er, I mean left...... but still right!

 

[oldtom]

Tom, the value of the Pound is not as important as its steadiness, trust me.



Parliament can't function without an effective opposition. Mr Corbyn is paid the same salary as the PM - his performance is deplorable.

You missed out on explaining the bit about when parliament wasn't in control. Also, regardless of the salary paid to a shadow PM, the real point which you seem happy to ignore is that Corbyn was not and is not responsible for the state of the country.

Perhaps you haven't noticed but there really isn't any middle ground in the EU in/out debate. You appear to be sitting on the fence, unable to make up your mind on the issue, although you claim to have voted to remain.

Tom

 

[flecc]

I'm right....er, I mean left...... but still right!

Just like we in the UK drive on the right side of the road and most of the others drive on the wrong side.
.

 

[Woosh]

so do you support freedom of movement between Scotland and England? Yorkshire and London?

Yes, because we share the same budget and parliament.

What about if we sign a trade deal with Australia, would you support freedom of movement with them?

No. Freedom of movement is a long term target when the world will eventually become one.

I'm not saying there aren't downsides, but I'm saying we're a global market place now, fighting something that many many people think is a positive isn't something that is a sustainable battle. The younger generations don't have a problem with it, because we've grown up with it.

That's why all the big cities / university towns with the highest number of migrants voted remain, where as places like Stoke and Sunderland with pretty much zero migrants voted leave. They are afraid of something that they've been told to be afraid of by the Daily Mail.

The benefits to the young are not going to be affected by brexit as much as you make them out to be. Nothing stops them learning to be fluent in another European language and find opportunities in the EU. I was in a similar situation when I came from France to the UK before the UK joined the EEC.
I said it before, it's more important to kick the tories out of power than what deal we come up with the EU.

 

[Woosh]

Also, regardless of the salary paid to a shadow PM, the real point which you seem happy to ignore is that Corbyn was not and is not responsible for the state of the country.

He is responsible for leading the opposition. That's what we paid him to do.

You appear to be sitting on the fence, unable to make up your mind on the issue, although you claim to have voted to remain.

Do you now rubbish those who sit on the fence?

 

[oldtom]

He is responsible for leading the opposition. That's what we paid him to do.



Do you now rubbish those who sit on the fence?

Leading the opposition party and being a devout socialist when the UK has had capitalist government for 38 years is a long way from being to blame for the state of the country due to to tory misgovernment. Therefore you are wrong to blame Corbyn.

As for 'rubbishing' anyone, I firmly believe that people should state their case. Where someone seeks to appease everybody when there are only two stark choices and wanders off topic while making ridiculous utterances and trying to create middle ground when there patently isn't any deserves to be held to account for stupidity. If you are old enough to remember Henry Kissinger, he tried that and failed, time and time again and I don't think you're in the same class as Kissinger, politically.

Tom

 

[Woosh]

oldtom,
Mr Corbyn does not do very well the job he's paid to do. He should do the decent thing, keep the PM pension and go before he weakens even further the opposition.
As for the middle ground, if you don't want to see it, then don't, but please, check the facts.
Do you confound brexit with the tories? As far as I can see, there isn't much that we can't do as a country after brexit that we could before.

 

[Zlatan]

so do you support freedom of movement between Scotland and England? Yorkshire and London?

What about if we sign a trade deal with Australia, would you support freedom of movement with them?

I'm not saying there aren't downsides, but I'm saying we're a global market place now, fighting something that many many people think is a positive isn't something that is a sustainable battle. The younger generations don't have a problem with it, because we've grown up with it.

That's why all the big cities / university towns with the highest number of migrants voted remain, where as places like Stoke and Sunderland with pretty much zero migrants voted leave. They are afraid of something that they've been told to be afraid of by the Daily Mail.

That's wrong KTM. My own area, as I mentioned in an earlier post, is one of highest immigrant areas in country. It voted out, and I believe with 3rd highest majority in country.

 

[D8ve]

You are "Deep Thought" and it took you 7.5 Million years to calculate that
And I claim my £5.

Dam you got me there. Can I pay with my pension when I get it ?

 

[oldgroaner]

The single market favours globalization, to the detriment of poorer people who get pushed into personal debts.

let me help you with that, it should read
"The Tory party favours globalization, to the detriment of poorer people who get pushed into personal debts"

And why? so it unnaturally temporarily bloats the services side of the economy and makes artificial figures appear to suggest a Boom or in this case "Brexit Boom"
Even as the people spending the money are heading into debt

 

[oldgroaner]

Dam you got me there. Can I pay with my pension when I get it ?

You'll only waste it in the hotel at the end of the Universe, so I'll have to accept an I.O.U. today

 

[oldgroaner]

Let's be brutally frank about the downside of freedom of movement. It is a Thatcherite economic model, it benefits the industrialists by passing the cost of factory closures to other local authorities while supplying cheaper labour to the least regulated industrial countries like the UK. Why didn't UK governments use the tools they have to curb immigration? this is because they want growth, which keeps them in power.
The EU will have to fix it, brexit will make them act sooner rather than later, that's a bonus.

let's examine what is different now, the Government wants to control the numbers coming in and may even increase them.

Why would the EU care at all after Brexit? it will mean nothing whatever to them what we do, as anyone can see that after Brexit, we are still importing cheap labour as and when the Government NOTE! not the public chooses

In the end the public might want to reduce immigration, but that will not happen as the Government won't let Public sentiment spoil a good earner, will it?

 

[oldgroaner]

That's wrong KTM. My own area, as I mentioned in an earlier post, is one of highest immigrant areas in country. It voted out, and I believe with 3rd highest majority in country.

I didn't realise the North Pole had shifted so far South.
You learn something new every day on here.

 

[Woosh]

OG,

Are there facts supporting the idea that brexit will benefit the tories?

 

[D8ve]

You'll only waste it in the hotel at the end of the Universe, so I'll have to accept an I.O.U. today

They have a hotel as well?

 

[Woosh]

anyone can see that after Brexit, we are still importing cheap labour as and when the Government NOTE! not the public chooses

but our government will not be able to avoid scrutiny.