You only have to look at what's been said on here particularly by uncle Tom who keeps using the term Brexidiots . There has been plenty of rubbish posted by both sides but the most irritating is that people didn't know what they were voting for. That can also be said of the remainers.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
That's simply not true, the remainers were voting to keep what we already had, so knew exactly what they were voting for.
Leavers were optimistically voting for an unknown.
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Actually it can't as they were voting for things to remain as they are
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How do you know they will remain the same. They have not been the same for the last 40years
Sorry Flecc have to disagree. The EU is constantly evolving so who knows what the future would bring
There is a massive problem looming with regard to a trade deal between the US and UK. Trump is determined to tariff protect the US from China by putting 35% tariff on most products out of Asia,but he is also offering a trade deal with the U.K.
Currently we buy a lot of goods tariff free or low tariff from China,there are exceptions that have anti-dumping EU tariffs but these are not the norm.May is talking about a free trade deal with China,zero tariffs on everything,when we Brexit.
Here is the problem,I cannot believe that Trump is going to allow us tariff free trade access to the US,thus 'backdooring' Asian product into the US and bypassing his tariff wall.
The solution is determining 'country of origin' ,which is ok when product from Asia is 100% Asian but we buy a lot of Asian product which 'makes up' into a bigger or value added product....such a trade deal will be very complex and take a lot of time to achieve.
No quick fix.
KudosDave
Currently we buy a lot of goods tariff free or low tariff from China,there are exceptions that have anti-dumping EU tariffs but these are not the norm.May is talking about a free trade deal with China,zero tariffs on everything,when we Brexit.
Here is the problem,I cannot believe that Trump is going to allow us tariff free trade access to the US,thus 'backdooring' Asian product into the US and bypassing his tariff wall.
The solution is determining 'country of origin' ,which is ok when product from Asia is 100% Asian but we buy a lot of Asian product which 'makes up' into a bigger or value added product....such a trade deal will be very complex and take a lot of time to achieve.
No quick fix.
KudosDave
Who knows what was in the minds of 33 million separate brains?, Some may have been fearful of leaving , some may have been fearful of staying, some may have wanted to protest, some may have believed that the NHS would gain a windfall, some may have considered all the legislation and benefits of EU membership. Some may have valued judical independence as a prize worth sacrificing financial security , some may have been scared of hoards from abroad. Some may have been committed and careful in their vote others in it just for the ride.
The opportunity now is that your parliment will have an opportunity to debate the advantages and constraints of leaving as against the advantages and constraints of remaining. The bill as introduced is simple and with a simple conclusion. The task for your legislative body is to argue the pros and cons and make a decision.
I would not expect the government to provide details of their negotiating strategy, but I would expect them to start with the same speech as Mrs May presented a week ago .
Ok, let's have another go. Could someone from the 'Brexit' camp please persuade me, with some evidence or facts which will inform me exactly how, when and where the British people will be better off and in what way, out of the EU?
Please don't tell me about trade deals with other non-EU countries that we already trade with but by all means tell me about countries we could trade with that being an EU member prevents. Also tell me if this will mean cheaper imports than we already have and I'd like to know which countries will buy our manufacturing products for export that don't do so now.
To really seal the deal and convince me that it's madness to want to remain in the EU, you might also wish to explain to me when our currency exchange rate will alter to make imported goods cheaper, not to mention holidays in the sun.
Any explanation should include some reference to the 'green-ness' of alternative trade deals with non-EU states. I mention that because I keep hearing about fantastic possibilities with the Antipodean countries and of course with the USA. The reason I mention that is simply that the transportation element between the EU states and the UK is much less than across the Atlantic or indeed to the opposite side of the world. I'm envisaging a hugely increased carbon footprint but maybe I just don't understand fully.
Tom
Please don't tell me about trade deals with other non-EU countries that we already trade with but by all means tell me about countries we could trade with that being an EU member prevents. Also tell me if this will mean cheaper imports than we already have and I'd like to know which countries will buy our manufacturing products for export that don't do so now.
To really seal the deal and convince me that it's madness to want to remain in the EU, you might also wish to explain to me when our currency exchange rate will alter to make imported goods cheaper, not to mention holidays in the sun.
Any explanation should include some reference to the 'green-ness' of alternative trade deals with non-EU states. I mention that because I keep hearing about fantastic possibilities with the Antipodean countries and of course with the USA. The reason I mention that is simply that the transportation element between the EU states and the UK is much less than across the Atlantic or indeed to the opposite side of the world. I'm envisaging a hugely increased carbon footprint but maybe I just don't understand fully.
Tom
Nobody knows that but nothing stays the same so your point applies equally elsewhere. For 40 years, we have had a vote, same as 27 (nowadays) other sovereign states as to whether to accept or reject any changes proposed in a much more democratic setting than that we have in the UK.
Why would anyone wish to leave?
Tom
Tom life is full of risks. People take a risk when they set up a business, buy a house sell a house change job. The list is endless. Point is that remaining with the status quo is not always the answer. A majority of people in this country (yes a small one) after having been given a '' once in a lifetime vote'' decided to take a risk and try a different future. It is now up to those politicians who offered that vote to respect the result, even if they did not expect it. Sometimes you just have to take your ball in your hand and jump off the cliff
But as remainers we knew the present, the immediate future, the aims of the EU and where failures were most likely, all based on existing information. We also knew we had a say in those matters.
The only independence information the leavers had was from 44 years ago, the rest just built on hope.
There's a vast difference between the two.
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Oldtom,
Brexit represents change. Looking for something better than now is bound to be difficult to prove because there is no precedent. Brexit voters do not place the same value on some of the things you consider positive and we should enjoy, eg freedom of moving to another country, be treated as equal to natives and exercise a profession there. Brexit voters will accept a small economical price in the form of inflation, it will pass. Brexit voters see change as positive.
Brexit represents change. Looking for something better than now is bound to be difficult to prove because there is no precedent. Brexit voters do not place the same value on some of the things you consider positive and we should enjoy, eg freedom of moving to another country, be treated as equal to natives and exercise a profession there. Brexit voters will accept a small economical price in the form of inflation, it will pass. Brexit voters see change as positive.
You very neatly avoided answering the most important point 'gray198', I asked:
It strikes me that the best deal out there for the UK is the one we already enjoy.
Tom
I am a natural risk taker,sometimes going off piste (Kudos cycles),I have experimented with new products.....some win,some lose,some are just ok,that is the selling business and it is agreed that the winners are often the ones I have least confidence. But in 45 years of trading I have never walked away from a good selling product to risk everything on an unknown project,especially when all looks negative and to date nobody has told me what I am going to achieve by this leap into the abyss and there is no going back....that is pure stupidity....but that is what our government wants us to commit to.
However,I do understand that there are people who basically have nothing,their future looks bleak and Brexit is a straw grabbing moment,which they hope will improve their lifestyle.....the trouble is that May and Co have not suggested or acted in any way that the outcome will improve their life in any way.
Brexit is political dragging all of us off to some UKIP/right wing Tory utopia (in their eyes) and if the economy goes to pot so be it,they have reduced immigration and left the ECJ,stuff the rest of us.
KudosDave
Like 'gray198', you have failed to answer my question:
Unless, of course, you think that gambling with your children and grandchildren's future is a worthwhile ambition?
Tom
Very amusing i'm sure, and entertaining nonsense too, you should be proud on the literature front, sadly there is nothing to be proud of with regard to the actual content, it's just another rant.(albeit delivered with a certain style)
I must however send for one of these "Grown up wrappers" you recommend. are they warm in winter?
I do so enjoy it when you let your admirable imagination free rein.
Your attempts at a put down are at least amusing.
You and I both know that the EU will not merely set the tone of these "negotiations", (though surrender might be a better term) they will simply state their terms.
With luck there may be a few crumbs for the Brexit side to crow over, but it really doesn't matter, as if you are naive enough to believe promises of fair treatment of the public by the Tory party, you are not as clever as I credit you to be.
Keep up the good work, it isn't actually all that good, but you are still streets ahead of the efforts of other leave supporter we have had on here.
Though even you have failed signally to give any real promise of this Brexit nonsense working out for the general good
I have no need to "get behind" any cause or group, for all I have to do is wait and watch the performance.
Do try to make it an entertaining comic opera won't you?
I didn't say they wouldn't change. I said we voted for things to remain as they are inferring we were going in the right direction
Yes I'm sure all those young people without jobs or prospects in the EU superstate would agree with that?????
Oldtom,
Why would anyone wish to leave?
Because they don't want what the EU has to offer. You look for a complex answer that isn't there.
I voted to remain and I have not changed my mind but I am nowhere as negative on brexit as you are.
If our parliament makes a mistake, they will have to put it right sooner or later.
Why would anyone wish to leave?
Because they don't want what the EU has to offer. You look for a complex answer that isn't there.
I voted to remain and I have not changed my mind but I am nowhere as negative on brexit as you are.
If our parliament makes a mistake, they will have to put it right sooner or later.
