Brexit, for once some facts.

[shemozzle999]

Hopefully they will conduct the deal under the existing Lisbon Treaty objectives:

Article 8

1. The Union shall develop a special relationship with neighbouring countries, aiming to establish an area of prosperity and good neighbourliness, founded on the values of the Union and characterised by close and peaceful relations based on cooperation.

2. For the purposes of paragraph 1, the Union may conclude specific agreements with the countries concerned. These agreements may contain reciprocal rights and obligations as well as the possibility of undertaking activities jointly. Their implementation shall be the subject of periodic consultation.

 

[oldgroaner]

OG
Way back I suggested you and I simply stopped responding to each others posts. You refused to do so. I then suggested we put each other on ignore and did so. You simply carried on posting about my comments.
Can we please simply stop. Its ridiculous. We know we disagree. End of. Just stop it now OG.
And yes I can.
I,ll put you back on ignore, can you please reciprocate.

If you make sensible comments you will not get critical responses, you are not here to tell anyone what to do.
It's quite simple really.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[oldgroaner]

I was looking further ahead, A good day for my children & grandchildren in the future

Only after the lesson we learned before joining the EU is re learned and we re apply to join.
What evidence can you offer that your Dream will come true?
Who would prefer to invest in this country of 65 million when they can invest in China or a success 550 million in the EU.
Unrealistic to expect things to improve just because you want them to.

 

[oldgroaner]

Hopefully they will conduct the deal under the existing Lisbon Treaty objectives:

Article 8

1. The Union shall develop a special relationship with neighbouring countries, aiming to establish an area of prosperity and good neighbourliness, founded on the values of the Union and characterised by close and peaceful relations based on cooperation.

2. For the purposes of paragraph 1, the Union may conclude specific agreements with the countries concerned. These agreements may contain reciprocal rights and obligations as well as the possibility of undertaking activities jointly. Their implementation shall be the subject of periodic consultation.

lets examine that and agree they will do so, but answer this, who will be their priority after we leave? will it be

1. The new Member Countries with lots of potential
2. An old and run down Ex Member country already in huge debt due to the mismanagement of it's own Government who they have no reason to help?

Which countries are going to get the best deal, Members or outsiders? and they all have to agree to any deal with us.

It would be comical if it wasn't sad that so many people have pinned their hopes on a fantasy.

 

[oldgroaner]

And while Brexit voters imagine they are on a winner and enjoying a "Brexit Boom" this is what is giving that illusion
From the Express rather surprisingly among all the crowing victory articles.
"
Millions face financial crisis TOMORROW as Britain braces for 'poorest day of the YEAR'

MILLIONS of Britons face a financial crisis tomorrow with one in three unable to pay their bills on what has been identified as the ‘poorest day of the year’.
A pay day gap of up to 45 days between December and January, combined with heavy spending over the Christmas period – up a third on any other month – has forced many consumers to start 2017 in the red.
And news yesterday (Tues) of inflation at a two and a half year high of 1.6 per cent will pile more pressure onto budgets, according to analysis from uSwitch.com the price comparison and switching website.

A third (32 per cent) of Brits are concerned they will not be able to meet all their financial commitments this month, with the figure rising to 43 per cent among those aged 18-34.
Worryingly, after £11bn was put on plastic in the run up to Christmas, one in ten believe they will fall behind on their credit card repayments and a million homeowners say they could default on their mortgage repayments this year.
Yet, at a time when total credit card debt is at its highest level in a decade – £65.7bn – one in eight Britons will resort to taking out extra credit in January."

Brexit : Here is a new slogan for it Live now Pay later oh yes, that will do nicely

 

[oldgroaner]

From the independent
"
Theresa May says she will take UK into the hardest of Brexits if Brussels and MPs do not back her plan
Government estimates show leaving the EU with no deal may leave the UK billions of pounds poorer
I know that actually reading something that is not in line with the right wing all is rosy in the garden Dogma, but this article in the Independent puts a less flattering light onto the prospects.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-theresa-may-speech-hard-brexit-wto-rules-article-50-a7532381.html

I'll simplify it, Two Boxers are in a fight
one is the World heavyweight champion the other a guy of the street, who decides to issue a threat
"Hit me again and I'll Bleed all over you!"
That pretty much sums up May's position in a nutshell.

 

[tillson]

And while Brexit voters imagine they are on a winner and enjoying a "Brexit Boom" this is what is giving that illusion
From the Express rather surprisingly among all the crowing victory articles.
"
Millions face financial crisis TOMORROW as Britain braces for 'poorest day of the YEAR'

MILLIONS of Britons face a financial crisis tomorrow with one in three unable to pay their bills on what has been identified as the ‘poorest day of the year’.
A pay day gap of up to 45 days between December and January, combined with heavy spending over the Christmas period – up a third on any other month – has forced many consumers to start 2017 in the red.
And news yesterday (Tues) of inflation at a two and a half year high of 1.6 per cent will pile more pressure onto budgets, according to analysis from uSwitch.com the price comparison and switching website.

A third (32 per cent) of Brits are concerned they will not be able to meet all their financial commitments this month, with the figure rising to 43 per cent among those aged 18-34.
Worryingly, after £11bn was put on plastic in the run up to Christmas, one in ten believe they will fall behind on their credit card repayments and a million homeowners say they could default on their mortgage repayments this year.
Yet, at a time when total credit card debt is at its highest level in a decade – £65.7bn – one in eight Britons will resort to taking out extra credit in January."

Brexit : Here is a new slogan for it Live now Pay later oh yes, that will do nicely

So today The Express is a valid source of news. Funny that.

 

[Woosh]

"Hit me again and I'll Bleed all over you!"
That pretty much sums up May's position in a nutshell.

She does not have much of a choice, being without a mandate of her own. Her brexiter MPs enjoy strong support from their constituencies and having waited for so long, will throw everything into the fire if brexit is reversed. That means certain snap election. Her remainer MPs tend to be democrats, accept much more willingly the result of the vote. The fight in parliament against A50 is already decided.
I regret that her speech happens before the Supreme Court's decision, otherwise, hard brexit may come through as against it in spirit.
The problem I see is hard brexit is the soft option. After two years of negotiation, parliament will be presented with a choice of deal or no deal. By setting an unspecified target, she sets the bar low rather than high and doing so while her brexiter MPs hold her leash.
There is an inconsistency in brexit. The fault of the EU is uncontrolled globalization, uncontrolled movement of the people. Yet, brexiters want more trade deals that is equal to more globalization and immigration because globalization and freedom of movement go hand in hand.
From a remainer's perspective, it is a poker game. The probability that Mrs May gets a bad deal is higher (bad means less cooperation with the E27), inflation higher (less FDI continues to depress the Pound) and at the end of the process, a no vote from parliament will certainly mean new government and who knows, brexit may not happen.

 

[oldgroaner]

So today The Express is a valid source of news. Funny that.

I did point out that this was a new experience though of course the Express think it isn't related to Brexit really.
I wonder why they printed it?

 

[Zlatan]

If you make sensible comments you will not get critical responses, you are not here to tell anyone what to do.
It's quite simple really.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

Yet again just proving how both self righteous and unreasonable you are.
Perhaps you should try doing same.
The quantity of your posts prove your obsession, their content your delusion.

 

[tillson]

I did point out that this was a new experience though of course the Express think it isn't related to Brexit really.
I wonder why they printed it?

This comes back to the destructive fixation on the negative aspects of BREXIT. When The Express print something positive regarding BREXIT they are a worthless rag. When they print something which is aligned with your personal negative view of BREXIT, they correct.

 

[flecc]

And as I understand it the final deal will be put to a vote in both houses??

That's not how our parliamentary democracy works, rubber stamping other's decisions. Parliament should have decided what pattern of departure to negotiate for, not dictator May.
.

 

[Zlatan]

Away from this forum there has been a mellowing of attitudes between remainers and leavers.
I thought May's speech was as good as it possibly could have been. The reaction to it in general public calm and measured. Both sides made sensible comments last night.
The pound/ ftse/ business reaction was minimal and unreactionary.
Lets hope we can all come up Trumps...???

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Away from this forum there has been a mellowing of attitudes between remainers and leavers.
I thought May's speech was as goid as it possibly could have been. The reaction to it in general public calm and measured. Both sides made sensible comments last night.
The pound/ ftse/ business reaction was minimal and unreactionary.
Lets hope we can all come up Trumps...???

hmm, you're not looking in the places I'm looking.

There is a growing resistance and a motivated one at that, and its a powerful, business, industry, university led one. I'm guessing you're not a member of any of the pro remain groups or parties so you won't be seeing whats going on behind closed doors.

Also regarding the business reaction, I'm a business so I can explain the lack of reaction. Nothing was said that was new yesterday, we all knew what she was going to say, we might have hoped she'd say something different, but there were no surprises. Well if anything the only surprise was the "we'll put it to both chambers for a vote at the end" bit. So not new news, no negative news and no positive news. Hence no reaction, here or in many many business either pro or anti brexit.

 

[oldgroaner]

Yet again just proving how both self righteous and unreasonable you are.
Perhaps you should try doing same.
The quantity of your posts prove your obsession, their content your delusion.

Thank you for your contribution, as usual it was pointless, off topic and an attack.
It is nor self righteous to have an opinion other than yours, and express it without your permission.

 

[oldgroaner]

This comes back to the destructive fixation on the negative aspects of BREXIT. When The Express print something positive regarding BREXIT they are a worthless rag. When they print something which is aligned with your personal negative view of BREXIT, they correct.

Lets see now the article told of the dire straits that many people are in though over use of the old credit card.
The stimulus to the economy is in the main based on this spending spree.And is the main prop of the Fictional "Brexit Boom" the paper has been lauding to the Skies
Today the Express actually printed something it didn't seem to understand WASN'T complimentary to Brexit.
Since they are quoting checkable facts in this case, where are you coming from with all that piffle? what destructive fixation?
I reported what they had printed and expressed surprise at their doing so, how can you put your "spin" on that?
Really tillson, do concentrate. you can do a lot better than that.

 

[oldgroaner]

Away from this forum there has been a mellowing of attitudes between remainers and leavers.
I thought May's speech was as good as it possibly could have been. The reaction to it in general public calm and measured. Both sides made sensible comments last night.
The pound/ ftse/ business reaction was minimal and unreactionary.
Lets hope we can all come up Trumps...???

And meanwhile on Planet Earth neither side is actually delighted at the way this is being handled, I am quite happy to see the Brexit Farce go ahead, the only way to get through to the people who wanted it is to give them what they thought they wanted.
Rather like the best revenge on a man who steals your wife is to let him keep her.

 

[gray198]

That's not how our parliamentary democracy works, rubber stamping other's decisions. Parliament should have decided what pattern of departure to negotiate for, not dictator May.
.

I thought they had a vote on giving a referendum which was carried by six to one agreeing that the onus was on the people to decide whether to leave or stay, and they are now carrying that out. I know that not everyone agrees with that, but the reason it's causing so many problems and denial is that they never expected to lose, never prepared for it and were totally baffled by the result. This led to cowardly Cameron walking away and leaving someone else to clear up the mess. All the talk and desperation of people who don't like the result should not deter from seeing the job through and taking us out of the EU.

 

[oldgroaner]

I thought they had a vote on giving a referendum which was carried by six to one agreeing that the onus was on the people to decide whether to leave or stay, and they are now carrying that out. I know that not everyone agrees with that, but the reason it's causing so many problems and denial is that they never expected to lose, never prepared for it and were totally baffled by the result. This led to cowardly Cameron walking away and leaving someone else to clear up the mess. All the talk and desperation of people who don't like the result should not deter from seeing the job through and taking us out of the EU.

lets look at that shall we
An Advisory referendum gave a Marginal victory to the side voting to leave at a point where it was only possible to make a decision with NO FACTS as to the consequence of that action.

We are now committed to leave for good or ill without the option of collectively changing our mind.
It still remains a case of having to HOPE that things will work out for the better not worse.

It's a gamble, yet we are stuck with it.
I personally don't mind as I think it will be very educational that one shouldn't abandon a lifeboat and jump back into the sea, but people should be given a choice to change their minds when so much is at stake, and we still have nothing more concrete other than promises of future improvement to living standards.
Quite simply if it goes wrong there will be hell to pay.
Is that a risk you think justified?
Are you in the habit of making HUGE Purchases without any Guarantee?
Because that is what you are doing
Risking everything on Vague promises made by congenital liars, with a track record of inefficiency and deceit.
And a footnote the people leading the charge for Brexit didn't plan for it either and Fled the field almost as rapidly as Cameron did remember.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Here's an example of the sort of mess this referendum has unleashed.

Please also note, we're still members of the EU currently, and nothing has or hasn't been agreed on how we move forward once we leave. But this is happening to real people.

"Received a letter from the Home Office today. My son, 18 years old, born here, has lived here all of his life, completed his A levels last Summer, presently in his gap year with a wonderful Uni offer waiting for him...has had his application for permanent residency refused (he has an Italian passport). I will not list here all of the reasons - they are mainly to do with the fact that he completed his studies in 2016, he applied in October 2016 hence when he applied he was not a student nor a worker and therefore does not qualify ... as his category (a student having a break from studying after his A levels) does not fall into any qualifying category. Also they say he has not given evidence of having private insurance or an EHIC card (which must have NOT been issued in UK) ..... SIGH ....too upset to talk further on this ... just in disbelief! WE have only 14 days to appeal! And loads of evidence has been requested...//Some of you have commented with surprise 'does he not het British citizenship for being born here?' No, children born here from non British parents do not have a right to citizenship more than any other European moving in UK in his adult life, except for those who were born here before 1965."

This is a real story from someone I know via facebook...