Will Farage and Rees Mogg drain the 'bucket' from the inside then...
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Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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Well he tried with the EU one but Junkers had got his snout in first..
Indeed, it's inevitable with no co-ordinated effort to prevent it continuing worldwide.
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Er, can you actually point to any posts where someone have alleged that the Banks will be given a free hand after Brexit?
I can't actually remember one, what I can remember is me stating that there is a Conspiracy where the Conservative party and employers will destroy the progress made during our time as members of the EU, on Holidays, Environmental issues, in fact anything that prevents the Elite exploiting the lower classes and reducing them to subservient and willing worker drones.
As to the Banks, nothing will change there and lets face it the Tory and New Labour Governments not the EU deregulated our Banks, and frankly since we wont be in the EU shortly, who gives a damn about the European banks?
Do stop trying to duck the issues and mount a defence of Brexit rather than smoke screening with utterly unimportant issues that are no longer
relevant.
The notion that the average Brexit voter had ever hear of any of the Banks except the one on the corner of the street is far fetched.
The Majority just wanted to send the Johnny Foreigners back who were living off benefits,taking our jobs and stopping them getting NHS treatment, you only have to see the breakdowns of all recent polls on voter motivation, and the way the Right wing press pursues the issues it knows it's readers emote with to see they didn't give a toss about the banks anyway.
Nice try, but really there's no mileage in that, tillson
"Of course, my post could also be read as a racist attack on the Germans, which is the default fall-back position"
I didn't read it like that, but are you getting a bit of a "Farage persecution complex" or something?
If you think your posts can be read as a racist attack on the Germans, why not write them so that cannot be the conclusion anyone reading them comes to?
Juncker by the way
And when did Farage try as you say considering Farage's attendance recod placed him 745th out of 746 MEPs.
and on top of Farage taking £2m of taxpayers' money in expenses and allowances as a member of the European Parliament, on top of his £64,000 a year salary.
During a debate about Europe at the Foreign Press Association - which was discreetly taped by the hosts - Farage was asked by former Europe minister Denis MacShane what he had received in non-salary expenses and allowances since becoming an MEP in 1999.
"It is a vast sum," Farage said. "I don't know what the total amount is but - oh lor - it must be pushing £2 million." Taken aback, MacShane then joked: "Is it too late to become an MEP?"
Just the chap to lead usup the garden path of righteousness....
We all know Farage will be leading nothing..to be honest think he,s actuallly lost Brexit votes but he,s not faced charges nor will he do....whereas the other bloke has been and probably still is amongst most powerful men in world..If Luxembourg comes out looking bad in tax investigation, which it should, then Junckers quite easily could face criminal prosecution.
The way EU has turned a blind eye to his carry ons whilst priminister of Luxembourg is unbelievable. For it to be held up as a beacon of morality and ethics is ridiculous. The EU is amongst most unethical wasteful organisations in history.
The way EU has turned a blind eye to his carry ons whilst priminister of Luxembourg is unbelievable. For it to be held up as a beacon of morality and ethics is ridiculous. The EU is amongst most unethical wasteful organisations in history.
I can't actually remember one, what I can remember is me stating that there is a Conspiracy where the Conservative party and employers will destroy the progress made during our time as members of the EU, on Holidays, Environmental issues, in fact anything that prevents the Elite exploiting the lower classes and reducing them to subservient and willing worker drones
OG while I agree up to some point I think the free movement of labour has given many employers the opportunity to do exactly what you are concerned about ie the erosion of workers rights, and an opportunity for virtual slave labour
OG while I agree up to some point I think the free movement of labour has given many employers the opportunity to do exactly what you are concerned about ie the erosion of workers rights, and an opportunity for virtual slave labour
The point is that while this is true up to a point, Brexit won't change the situation as the Government backed by the employers will simply let in workers of their choice into the country, and none of ours will be any better off, as bit by bit Holidays and other rights are whittled away.
No one is saying that Free Movement of people doesn't have it's downside, but what "upside" is there to the movements of people simply being controlled by the Elite for their benefit?
And ask yourself how is it possible to say "We can always vote the Government out"
When there is no opposition? it's not as if New Labour would have acted any differently is it?
Ask yourself these simple questions: bearing in mind that the people in power regard Profit as the force driving progress and care nothing for social progress.
- what will change that improves the situation of an ordinary member of the public after Brexit? What is the difference between "I think the free movement of labour has given many employers the opportunity to do exactly what you are concerned about ie the erosion of workers rights, and an opportunity for virtual slave labour" and the same labour being imported by a Government that is more interested in the Economy than the welfare of the people?
- How will you vote for a better Government when there isn't one available to vote for that is any different?
- Which politician would dare to interfere with the process of importing cheap labour to make a profit?
OG I can't really argue with any of your reasoning. Was merely pointing out that any system even the best of intentions can have unpredictable consequences. Throughout history the many have worked hard so that the few can be rich. All governments are complicit in this. In fact most of the people in power have probably never contributed anything material into the society they represent. They just take out. This is becoming more apparent as people leave university and go straight into politics. Unfortunately we don't have a credible opposition now in this country so as you say there is not much alternative. As far as I can see Jeremy Corbyn has no credibility as a potential PM even though he is sticking to his principles. This country is more likely to move further to the right because of him. This country needs a good opposition, but I can't see one. It will be interesting to see what happens in the Bye Election in Cumbria. That may give us a clue as to how the electorate is feeling.
Totally agree with all that Gray....but its not just Corbyn making labour unelectable, the spectre of Blair has left floating labour voters unlikely to ever vote labour whilst ever he has a following amongst labour, which he plainly has. Corbyn's stance on defence and unilateral disarmament was last nail in his coffin.( even if you agree with him it still makes him unelectable in present atmosphere/generation)
Tories are trying to decide if brexit is electorally enforceable or not. If they decide it is it will happen, if they decide otherwise it will not. ( ie would taking us out lose Tories power ? That's their only concern.
Actually this does tend to indicate that change should never be fundamental in nature, experiments should be on the principal of changing one factor at a time.
Brexit alas is rather more than that!
Financially the success or Failure of Brexit is debatable, and frankly any success is unlikely to trickle down to societies lower levels, as from past experience that rarely happens.
From my point of view the concern over leaving the EU is in cementing even more firmly the very people and organisations that have worked against the people, into a position of power where they are unassailable and can do permanent harm.
Also playing on anger and jealousy and sowing division in the population isn't racist so much as divisive, which is ultimately even more dangerous, yet the media and politicians regard that as sound and logical means of persuasion.
This is creating a powder keg situation where should leaving the EU turn out unpopular the nation is in a dire straits.
This is the time of the year when the weather outside invites reflection. The two biiggest events of the year are of course brexit and President Elect Donald Trump.
Do you think history would have been different if Cameron had delayed the referendum to June 2017? Would Donald Trump have won?
Do you think history would have been different if Cameron had delayed the referendum to June 2017? Would Donald Trump have won?
Is there any connection whatever between the two events re voting ?
No, no connection whatsoever, obviously.
Apart from the fact that it gives the outward appearance of a coup by the rich and powerful to establish corporate control over a gullible voting public both sides of the Atlantic?
Or Putin has deployed weapons of Mass Illusion (or was it stupidity?) to influence the results?
No, nothing like that at all of course!
I must say I am a bit of a sucker for conspiracy theories. Both sets of result seem to have been swayed by clever use of information technology: twitter, facebook, hacking, fake news etc. Donald Trump did not win the popular vote but won the key swing states. It's like a daring corporate raid plot.
If David Cameron had delayed the referendum to 2017, Donald Trump's victory may have encouraged the EU to be more helpful to David Cameron. Who knows, the EU vote could have swung the other way.
If David Cameron had delayed the referendum to 2017, Donald Trump's victory may have encouraged the EU to be more helpful to David Cameron. Who knows, the EU vote could have swung the other way.
Probably OT but World order has completely shifted over last 5 years or so...China is already dominant power...just as an example Wayne Rooney is utterly overpaid and represents the stupidity of our society with his wages of £300,000 per week...China are offering him £700,000 a week.
The nation (s) that realise and adapt to this shift the quickest will be in better position. Can we do that better in or out ?? I suspect out...
Mere Xmas . Everybody.
The nation (s) that realise and adapt to this shift the quickest will be in better position. Can we do that better in or out ?? I suspect out...
Mere Xmas . Everybody.
When things start to swing they usually go back and forth for quite a while.
I don't think the referendum result would have been any different, whatever the EU countries did for Cameron. The anti-EU feeling had long been deeply ingrained into our working class society and and become even more widespread and strong than had been suspected.
Now we pay the price for that.
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I can't see too much wrong with the premise in this piece of propaganda:
Tom
Tom