Brexit, for once some facts.

[derf]

The readers comments in the Guardian newspaper this morning are saying they have voted Tory to keep ukip out.

It's got that bad, evil ukip & disappointing Labour, I'm so glad I'm not a youngster.

not kidding, politics in my youth in Africa is beginning to look sentient compared to this brain-dead populist soap opera. it needs a good war with a few million casualties to focus minds.

 

[tillson]

not kidding, politics in my youth in Africa is beginning to look sentient compared to this brain-dead populist soap opera. it needs a good war with a few million casualties to focus minds.

What a nasty comment.

 

[derf]

What a nasty comment.

it is one way of getting rid of racists. I can imagine that may be a nasty experience for you..

 

[anotherkiwi]

Yes fair point.
But when Katrina struck Mississippi almost immediately they had state troopers on scene and cash from central government. What help was eu when there was rioting in Athens over measures EU had enforced..???
Ps Apologies Kiwi...I thought it was derf.

You cant have a single currency without a single controlling fiscal system. There are 28 in eu. Attempting to do so was a massive experiment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina#Criticism_of_government_response

The Euro zone is 19 countries.

The USA is a federation of states with state governments having practically the same role as EU national governments in many areas. This includes state taxes and fiscal policy including different levels of VAT etc. The US dollar is official currency of at least 8 countries and the unofficial currency of many more. So apparently you can have a single currency shared by many different fiscal systems...

The Euro's main problems are related to several countries with historical ties to corruption and tax evasion predating the Euro and their national banks gambling with their clients money on stock exchanges the world over and losing out big in a world wide financial crisis. Nothing to do with the ECB being weak, not having enough reserves, huge debt...

The crisis is quite easy to understand and the words "bubble" and "speculation" and "banking sector" have more to do with the whole thing that EU or ECB or Euro.

 

[tillson]

it is one way of getting rid of racists. I can imagine that may be a nasty experience for you..

Are you suggesting that members of Her Majesty's Armed Forces are racists? If a war were to break out, it would be those fine men an women who would be amongst the first casualties.

 

[derf]

Are you suggesting that members of Her Majesty's Armed Forces are racists? If a war were to break out, it would be those fine men an women who would be amongst the first casualties.

you and others like you have created this little xenophobic mess. their casualties in a much less stable post eu world is on your conscience. I'm hoping any such sacrifice has the noble side effect of ridding the world of some of the racist scum that voted brexit.

 

[Kudoscycles]

The UK had an entirely satisfactory airworthiness regime under our own CAA rules. Since EASA had become involved, airworthiness procedures have become unnecessarily complicated leading to an increase in airworthiness costs of over 300%. EASA have added nothing to airworthiness in terms of safety.

The net result of EASA's involvement is to drive people out aviation, particularly in the private and leisure sector.

I am not familiar with India's aviation governing body. However, if aircraft originating from and maintained in India are allowed to fly over towns and cities all over the world, their maintenance procedures must be subjected to scrutiny and have achieve a standard. Their national carrier, Air India, fly into major cities all over the world, so this is further evidence that their safety standards are satisfactory.

I think what Jacob Reed Mogg was suggesting is that it is possible to achieve a satisfactory safety standard without unnecessary expense and complication. We in the U.K. were able to do this very well prior to EASA's involvement. Many other countries / aircraft owners used to register their aircraft in the U.K. because of our efficient systems. That has all changed now thanks to the EU and EASA.

I mentioned aviation because that is a business area that you are familiar with. But Rees Mogg was saying that we should be happy to have Indian environmental and safety standards in the UK.
I must admit never travelling to India but do spend a lot of time in Chinese factories....the standards in those factories varies widely....I have been into a Honda factory in China,the control standards were very high,equal of any European factory....but,I have been to some factories with unguarded presses,open paint tanks and awful electrical installations,these would be rightly closed down by H&S in the UK....I am told that Indian standards in the poorest factories are worse then China,but Rees Mogg would by his statement be happy with these standards in the UK.
Aside from the above,I often fly on Chinese Airlines....I fly to China with China Southern,on brand new Dreamliners,better and cheaper than BA or Virgin....but internally I sometimes have to fly with China Eastern,the planes are often old and tired.
KudosDave

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

ah, the joys more stuff sold off whilst the £ is cheap to foreign "investment".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/national-grid-sells-shares-china-qatar-investors-a7463256.html

 

[tillson]

you and others like you have created this little xenophobic mess. their casualties in a much less stable post eu world is on your conscience. I'm hoping any such sacrifice has the noble side effect of ridding the world of some of the racist scum that voted brexit.

derf, you really are a clueless idiot. I shall dismiss you as having no significant worth.

 

[Kudoscycles]

"Sleaford Result

Caroline Johnson (Cons) 17,570 (53.51%, -2.68%)

Victoria Ayling (Ukip) 4,426 (13.48%, -2.21%)

Ross Pepper (Lib Dem) 3,606 (10.98%, +5.33%)

Jim Clarke (Lab) 3,363 (10.24%, -7.02%)

Marianne Overton (Lincs Ind) 2,892 (8.81%, +3.59%)

Sarah Stock (Ind) 462 (1.41%)

The Iconic Arty-Pole (Loony) 200 (0.61%)

Paul Coyne (ND) 186 (0.57%)

Mark Suffield (ND) 74 (0.23%)

David Bishop (BP Elvis) 55 (0.17%)

Cons maj 13,144 (40.03%)

Electorate 88,712; Turnout 32,834 (37.01%, minus 33.23%)

The Tories inevitably won
Labour failed miserably as expected.
UKIP made no bigger an impression that the last time
And are endangered by a rise in popularity of the Lib DEms

The turnout was abysmal way, way down
Quite obviously apathy has set in with the electorate for such a fall in turnout.
No UKIP Breakthrough there when they actually lost support
The lib Dems gained 5%
Bit by bit Support for Brexit is fading away.
33% who voted at the General Election had lost interest.
And in a Tory heartland couldn't bring themselves to vote for anything, and seemingly just hope it will all go away?
Well there is good news for Saint Teresa, as from now on she can discount the UKIP as being a threat as they failed utterly to attract Tory Voters, and frankly the Labour Party are irrelevant anyway, which is hardly news is it?
She now has to watch out for the Lib Dems.

I am surprised that UKIP didn't do better,as a protest vote against May's slowness in triggering A50,the low turnout and low UKIP vote would suggest that the protest element of the referendum has lost interest in Brexit already. It was never expected that the liberals would do a Richmond Park,after all it is historically a strong Tory seat and heavy Leave vote,but any increase of the liberal vote would suggest some movement towards Remain,the Liberal vote has become the new anti-Brexit vote.
Would be interesting if we had a marginal Leave/Remain by election constituency and whether the Liberals could prevail,that may happen in the next 2 years.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

Did anyone see Nigel Farage on QT last night?

I thought that he was most impressive.

I agree,in fact he has learnt to accept others arguments,maybe he is positioning himself to a new political model now that UKIP is dying,he and it have done their job of getting us out of the EU.
Now that the Tories have swung to the right,he may see his future in the Tory party,when Theresa May leaves.
I thought the whole QT programme was well handled,no shouting down each other,the panel and people of Maidenhead had some very good contributions.
Maidenhead is Theresa May's seat,did they vote to Remain?
KudosDave

 

[Zlatan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina#Criticism_of_government_response

The Euro zone is 19 countries.

The USA is a federation of states with state governments having practically the same role as EU national governments in many areas. This includes state taxes and fiscal policy including different levels of VAT etc. The US dollar is official currency of at least 8 countries and the unofficial currency of many more. So apparently you can have a single currency shared by many different fiscal systems...

The Euro's main problems are related to several countries with historical ties to corruption and tax evasion predating the Euro and their national banks gambling with their clients money on stock exchanges the world over and losing out big in a world wide financial crisis. Nothing to do with the ECB being weak, not having enough reserves, huge debt...

The crisis is quite easy to understand and the words "bubble" and "speculation" and "banking sector" have more to do with the whole thing that EU or ECB or Euro.

Well Cameron is now saying you cant have a single currency without a single fiscal policy ( lots were saying it , I even think someone on here said same and got shouted down)
My point isn't really wether you can or cant but for Cameron to come out and say so now is sheer ludicrous and typical of politics at moment. Say one thing in public but think something completely different. The question is was he lying then ( campaigning to stay) or is he lying now..

My personal opinion is that you cant but that counts for little. I think many of poorer nations have struggled because they are unable to adjust currency when they feel it is required....Cameron/ Osborne didn't agree with this pre June 23rd but now the do...absolutely barmy. You and I haven't changed our opinions but the fools incharge change theirs to suit public demand..

 

[Kudoscycles]

The two parties which support BREXIT, Conservative and UKIP, between them took 67% of the vote. A very clear endorsement of the EU referendum result and certainly more meaningful than Richmond.

I am very pleased to see the Liberal Democrats and Labour squeezed into insignificance in 3rd and 4th place respectively. Well done to UKIP on their continuing journey towards glory.

Tillson....you know you cannot put that spin on that result. It always amazes me post elections that political spinners can always put a positive on even the worst vote for their candidate.
The overriding result of Sleaford was the low turnout,the people of the north have lost interest in Brexit already. It was always going to be won by the Tories,UKIP share of the vote fell-not surprising with all their antics recently and the lack of interest by Farage. The LibDems were the only party to increase their vote share,Remainers expressing their protest about Brexit.
It was terrible for Labour,who cannot get their act together,at a time when they should find it easy in a poor area to criticise the cuts that Hammond has made.
I am no Liberal,but they are the only party openly hostile to Brexit.
Labour has a real problem in that many of their seats are in high Leave vote areas and is caught between supporting their constituents and trying to control the excesses of this current right wing Tory government,they are not doing a good job of being an effective opposition,they need Theresa May to make a mess of Brexit and Hammond's cuts to feed through their normal voters.
KudosDave

 

[tillson]

Tillson....you know you cannot put that spin on that result. It always amazes me post elections that political spinners can always put a positive on even the worst vote for their candidate.
The overriding result of Sleaford was the low turnout,the people of the north have lost interest in Brexit already. It was always going to be won by the Tories,UKIP share of the vote fell-not surprising with all their antics recently and the lack of interest by Farage. The LibDems were the only party to increase their vote share,Remainers expressing their protest about Brexit.
It was terrible for Labour,who cannot get their act together,at a time when they should find it easy in a poor area to criticise the cuts that Hammond has made.
I am no Liberal,but they are the only party openly hostile to Brexit.
Labour has a real problem in that many of their seats are in high Leave vote areas and is caught between supporting their constituents and trying to control the excesses of this current right wing Tory government,they are not doing a good job of being an effective opposition,they need Theresa May to make a mess of Brexit and Hammond's cuts to feed through their normal voters.
KudosDave

I disagree.

 

[Kudoscycles]

I agree,in fact he has learnt to accept others arguments,maybe he is positioning himself to a new political model now that UKIP is dying,he and it have done their job of getting us out of the EU.
Now that the Tories have swung to the right,he may see his future in the Tory party,when Theresa May leaves.
I thought the whole QT programme was well handled,no shouting down each other,the panel and people of Maidenhead had some very good contributions.
Maidenhead is Theresa May's seat,did they vote to Remain?
KudosDave

Am I allowed to reply to my own posting?
Anyway,to live dangerously...Windsor and Maidenhead,Theresa May's own seat voted 44,000 Remain and 37,000 Leave. So Theresa May,Mrs Brexit doesn't have the support of her own constituents re Brexit,she could do a U - turn without flac from her own voters.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

I disagree.

UKIP lost 2% of their share of the vote,how do you put a positive spin on that?
KudosDave

 

[tillson]

UKIP lost 2% of their share of the vote,how do you put a positive spin on that?
KudosDave

I can't. It could have been due to voters deserting UKIP, or it could have been due to more UKIP voters feeling the by-election was insignificant and not turning out. Who knows? Certainly not you or I.

What we do know for certain is that for every 10 voters who walked through the polling station door, 7 of them put an X next to a candidate who's party has stated its intention to take the UK out of the EU.

That's all we know for certain.

 

[anotherkiwi]

It's all part of a cunning plan! Like turning 6.699 people into 7 thanks to a handy rounding up algorithm instead of saying "almost 7 of them" or "over 13 out of 20". Benjamin Disraeli would be proud tilson!

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

I can't. It could have been due to voters deserting UKIP, or it could have been due to more UKIP voters feeling the by-election was insignificant and not turning out. Who knows? Certainly not you or I.

What we do know for certain is that for every 10 voters who walked through the polling station door, 7 of them put an X next to a candidate who's party has stated its intention to take the UK out of the EU.

That's all we know for certain.

Here's some numbers for you... 3 recent by elections totals.

Conservative (inc. Zac Goldsmith) - 53,521
Liberal Democrat - 35,727
Labour - 10,643
Minor parties/independents - 6,901
UKIP - 5,780

Of the votes cast above, these are the percentages/shares:

Conservative - 47.54%
Liberal Democrat - 31.74%
Labour - 9.46%
Minor parties/independents - 6.13%
UKIP - 5.14%

So UKIP don't appear to be too popular in all post referendum elections.

 

[derf]

derf, you really are a clueless idiot. I shall dismiss you as having no significant worth.

gray being tillson makes "him" agreeing just SO funny