Brexit, for once some facts.

[Kudoscycles]

I haven't yet met a leaver who can answer what is their vision of the future after Brexit. Do Leavers actually care about the economy,most of them voted leave to stop immigration,but it's not PC to admit that.
This ridiculous Mayism that we are entering an exciting time and we should grasp the opportunities open to us after Brexit....any ambitious businessman is reaching out now to any business prospects,I don't see why post Brexit it's going to be easier.
I wonder how many of us will seek European residency,at least 16 million I expect,I will.
I see the future......We will pay lots of money to the EU to have access to the single market,in return they will give us almost nothing.
We will achieve free trade deals with all the countries that can dump cheap goods into the UK.
The Germans will still sell cars into the UK.
KudosDave

 

[Zlatan]

Fair enough Tom. I don't agree with much of your reply but you are entitled to your opinion.
Your reply is well written yet dismisses almost off handedly the opinions of the folk I mentioned..
Anyhow, we,ll just have to agree to differ.
In reality I cant see Brexit happening anyway..

 

[Wicky]

Looks like there are bargains being snapped up in Britain's Brexit closing down sale...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/dec/06/chinese-firm-pub-david-cameron-xi-jinping-pint-plough-cadsden

 

[flecc]

In reality I cant see Brexit happening anyway..

It's certainly looking more and more likely it could be abandoned, or at least be so soft that it makes little difference.

The EU is being so intransigent on the acceptance of the four pillars that it's leaving almost no room for negotiation. The information now that negotiations have to be completed within 18 months won't help.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

Theresa May offered to be open about her Brexit intentions tomorrow then added an amendment that to agree to this openness ,MP's must agree to agree to signing A50 by end of March.
She keeps doing this,her Great Repeal Bill will have elements that MP's will have to sign up to but hidden within it will be bits that only she and her right wingers want.
She wants us to trust her to get on with Brexit but resorts to double dealing that inevitably introduces distrust to everything she does.
The Lords are already fed up with her,I can see them being very difficult especially over the single market.
KudosDave

Since they, the Labour Mp's opposing Brexit , have collectively indicated that they won't attempt to delay Article 50 (In theory)
it seems odd that she considers this new ploy (as does the Murdoch press) as some sort of Victory, and in any case the Mp's will demand discussion of the "plan" and should delay be their intention Scrutinising the plan will be their opportunity to do so.
That of course is assuming that in this instance any form of Party cohesion applies to MP's of any stripe any more!

Like the Referendum itself it will be an interesting "Opinion Poll"
However it does represent a reassertion of the power of Parliament over the action of Ministers, whichever way you spin it.
After all, in the situation we have here as a member of parliament I would simply table a motion today adding to her bill that "parliament will honour the date once details of the plans are discussed and a vote in favour of acceptance taken."

 

[oldgroaner]

Looks like there are bargains being snapped up in Britain's Brexit closing down sale...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/dec/06/chinese-firm-pub-david-cameron-xi-jinping-pint-plough-cadsden

They came for the Nuclear power plants.
The came for the Steel industry
Then they came for the Pubs! Aaaaaargh!
Be very afraid
Style of thing
Ah So!
Closing down Sale indeed!
I.M.H.O.

 

[oldgroaner]

Fair enough Tom. I don't agree with much of your reply but you are entitled to your opinion.
Your reply is well written yet dismisses almost off handedly the opinions of the folk I mentioned..
Anyhow, we,ll just have to agree to differ.
In reality I cant see Brexit happening anyway..

Permission to come aboard?
Assuming that.

"I find your lack of Faith Disturbing
Brexit will happen young Nigel
(Evil CACKLE at this point)
I have Foreseen it!
Have a nice day
Darth OG.
I.M.H.O

 

[oldgroaner]

Reading the Sun this morning, the reader's comments make me wonder what their logical processes consist of,
First they elected this Government

Now they cry out with Rage it isn't respecting "The Will of the people"

When Brexit happens, will they be satisfied that they are back to being governed by the very people they are ranting on about now?

They believe their wishes rule the actions of the Government, and it will not merely abide by them, but Govern in their own interests, and even more amazingly
"They can always be voted out and someone else elected"
Who? can anyone see any alternative that isn't going to be more of the same?

Very sad and utterly mistaken, as they will find out to their cost.

Rather like Slave revolts in Ancent Rome, there is only one possible outcome.
I grieve for their Dreams so soon to be shattered.

Just my humble opinion of course!

 

[oldgroaner]

"
Former Conservative minister Sir Oliver Letwin, who chaired the government's Brexit unit immediately after the referendum, said he did not expect Theresa May to set out any more detail than what is already known.

The vote will not be binding on the government."

Surely then it follows logically it won't be legally binding on anyone else, either?
Especially if the plan is too vague or unacceptable to Parliament.

Let me simplify the Government's position
"We are lying to you, will not comply with the promise made and think we have cornered you into agreeing to do what we want. Because you dare not do otherwise."

Diplomacy? but not was we know it Jim!

 

[Kudoscycles]

"
Former Conservative minister Sir Oliver Letwin, who chaired the government's Brexit unit immediately after the referendum, said he did not expect Theresa May to set out any more detail than what is already known.

The vote will not be binding on the government."

Surely then it follows logically it won't be legally binding on anyone else, either?
Especially if the plan is too vague or unacceptable to Parliament.

Let me simplify the Government's position
"We are lying to you, will not comply with the promise made and think we have cornered you into agreeing to do what we want. Because you dare not do otherwise."

Diplomacy? but not was we know it Jim!

I dont see either side upholding this motion or amendment,Theresa May will do her usual 'we are going to get possible deal' and the Tory rebels plus Labour plus the others will say thats not enough,we want to know whether we are staying in the single market,she will then say I am not revealing all my cards....it will be a stalemate,lots of abstentions I think.
Meanwhile the EU is seeming to be even more agressive about us maintaining their 4 principle rules....May and Davis will panic when the 18 months are up and they haven't achieved anything,so they will give lots of money to the EU for us to stay in the single market.
Meanwhile the poor people in the UK will wake up that they are worse off than before,with all their shouting about 'we won,you lost,so leave' they haven't noticed that Hammond took loads out if their benefits and tax credits whilst they were Brexit distracted.
We will have so many 'special cases' to immigration....the NHS,the farmers,the city in London,the Scots,the guys who clean my car (maybe) that immigration will rise,hehe.
KudosDave

 

[derf]

I dont see either side upholding this motion or amendment,Theresa May will do her usual 'we are going to get possible deal' and the Tory rebels plus Labour plus the others will say thats not enough,we want to know whether we are staying in the single market,she will then say I am not revealing all my cards....it will be a stalemate,lots of abstentions I think.
Meanwhile the EU is seeming to be even more agressive about us maintaining their 4 principle rules....May and Davis will panic when the 18 months are up and they haven't achieved anything,so they will give lots of money to the EU for us to stay in the single market.
Meanwhile the poor people in the UK will wake up that they are worse off than before,with all their shouting about 'we won,you lost,so leave' they haven't noticed that Hammond took loads out if their benefits and tax credits whilst they were Brexit distracted.
We will have so many 'special cases' to immigration....the NHS,the farmers,the city in London,the Scots,the guys who clean my car (maybe) that immigration will rise,hehe.
KudosDave

doesn't the laywer arguing against a parliament motion being enough to trigger brexit
http://news.trust.org/item/20161207121332-szigt/?source=reTheWire
just have the right surname?

 

[Woosh]

..
Meanwhile the poor people in the UK will wake up that they are worse off than before,with all their shouting about 'we won,you lost,so leave' they haven't noticed that Hammond took loads out if their benefits and tax credits whilst they were Brexit distracted.
We will have so many 'special cases' to immigration....the NHS,the farmers,the city in London,the Scots,the guys who clean my car (maybe) that immigration will rise,hehe.
KudosDave

There is talk about 'fantastic opportunities' after brexit but except a few rare cited examples like cane sugar for Tate & Lyle or chocolate beans from the Ivory Coast, I fail to see what new opportunities that we have not looked at before.
One subject that is little talked about is our renewed independent membership of the WTO when we are out of the EU. Mr Fox's department is currently busy drafting the schedules of concessions, these are lists of our current commitments toward our trading partners, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schedules_of_concessions
When we leave, we are expected to maintain them until new treaties are in place. That implies that a transitional period is likely and nothing will change for a while, not even tariffs on cane sugar or chocolate beans, until we actually have made a few new deals. That can take many years and most certainly under a different PM.

.

 

[flecc]

cane sugar for Tate & Lyle.

And this I don't see as a benefit. When we have our own very healthy beet growing industry for British Sugar plc producing sugar, importing a foreign alternative that's no better seems foolish. Fine for Tate & Lyle's shareholders and American owners, but not good for the UK.
.

 

[Kudoscycles]

One of the reasons that May cannot show a plan to parliament is that no work appears to have been done on a plan. Its not that she is keeping her cards close to her chest,she doesn't even have a pack of cards.
When one of the judges asked Eadie in the supreme court about the Great Repeal Bill,the Attorney General sitting alongside him squirmed with embarrassment,it was obvious that the Great Repeal Bill only exists in May's imagination,Eadie admitted they had no further info.
May,Fox and Davis are going to be made to look fools in front of the skilled EU negotiators...if May wants to be taken seriously she better get down to some work in preparing for Brexit,instead of going on holidays to Switzerland,India and Bahrain....taking lessons from air miles Andy.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

If brexit isnt resolved by the next election I may stand as an independent on a ticket...
NO TO BREXIT
NO TO HS2
NO TO HEATHROW.
My local MP,as right wing as its possible to be,the referendum vote was 40,000 remain,41000 leave.....how many leavers have changed their mind????
KudosDave

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

anyone seen this pop us this afternoon.

“Our feeble system of scrutiny undermines Parliament’s ability to check or restrain the government’s actions in Europe. We therefore need a system that gives parliament enough power over ministers, enough time to scrutinise and the transparency to restore public trust in the process.”

Guess who wrote that back in 2007.

 

[flecc]

anyone seen this pop us this afternoon.

“Our feeble system of scrutiny undermines Parliament’s ability to check or restrain the government’s actions in Europe. We therefore need a system that gives parliament enough power over ministers, enough time to scrutinise and the transparency to restore public trust in the process.”

Guess who wrote that back in 2007.

Theresa May!

Hoisted with her own petard.
.

 

[Kudoscycles]

anyone seen this pop us this afternoon.

“Our feeble system of scrutiny undermines Parliament’s ability to check or restrain the government’s actions in Europe. We therefore need a system that gives parliament enough power over ministers, enough time to scrutinise and the transparency to restore public trust in the process.”

Guess who wrote that back in 2007.

Theresa May???
KudosDave

 

[oldgroaner]

anyone seen this pop us this afternoon.

“Our feeble system of scrutiny undermines Parliament’s ability to check or restrain the government’s actions in Europe. We therefore need a system that gives parliament enough power over ministers, enough time to scrutinise and the transparency to restore public trust in the process.”

Guess who wrote that back in 2007.

Who could possibly have held so pro democratic opinion?
And then hold to exactly the opposite standpoint?
surely not Saint Teresa?

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Yup... it was mrs mayhem.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ed-miliband-discovered-deleted-paper-9410623