Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

Well that is where we disagree. There is a cost to the ECHR and that cost has to be paid in both cash, settling spurious claims (I'll come back to this) and potentially lives of service personnel. The latter is unacceptable given what the ECHR provides over and above the two existing authorities (Geneva Convention and UK Law).

The settling of spurious claims. No doubt the MoD has paid out on spurious claims. They look at the cost of defending each one versus the cost of settling. On a simple accountancy basis, its nearly always cheaper to settle and prohibitively expensive to defend. They could blow the entire MoD budget on lawyers if they went down that route. Scum bags are fully tuned into this and don't they just exploit it to the full?

That is what this is all about, shutting down abuse. Blame the abusers of the system, not the government.

I'm sure that the government support the ECHR in principle. After all, the UK wrote most of it. However, times have changed and people are now willing to abuse the system. Like all things, abuse it and lose it. Simple.

I see ,pay hush money to kill claims .
Immoral but effective , and carry on abusing the natives with no blame in
the press , how very convenient.
Especially so if the abuse was carried out under orders.
Dangerous!

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[derf]

Well that is where we disagree. There is a cost to the ECHR and that cost has to be paid in both cash, settling spurious claims (I'll come back to this) and potentially lives of service personnel. The latter is unacceptable given what the ECHR provides over and above the two existing authorities (Geneva Convention and UK Law).

The settling of spurious claims. No doubt the MoD has paid out on spurious claims. They look at the cost of defending each one versus the cost of settling. On a simple accountancy basis, its nearly always cheaper to settle and prohibitively expensive to defend. They could blow the entire MoD budget on lawyers if they went down that route. Scum bags are fully tuned into this and don't they just exploit it to the full?

That is what this is all about, shutting down abuse. Blame the abusers of the system, not the government.

I'm sure that the government support the ECHR in principle. After all, the UK wrote most of it. However, times have changed and people are now willing to abuse the system. Like all things, abuse it and lose it. Simple.

scrutiny cuts both ways:
everyone remember the snatch land rover debacle in Afghanistan/Iraq. I used to be a conscript in an impoverished African country, who's GDP was probably around 5% of the UK's. It wouldn't dream of putting its soldiers in those kind of combat environments in a snatch land rover. we had some basic but surprisingly mine/IED/up to 50 cal resistant armoured vehicles. anyhow, I think we're all agreed on it being the UK government's dereliction in its duty of care, miserably. here is an example of it trying to avoid responsibility for it, for having happened in a foreign country
http://ukscblog.com/case-comment-smith-ors-v-ministry-of-defence-2013-uksc-41/
as I say, more scrutiny is a good thing when dealing with a government that behaves worse than any of the alleged vermin you refer to.

 

[tillson]

I see ,pay hush money to kill claims .
Immoral but effective , and carry on abusing the natives with no blame in
the press , how very convenient.
Especially so if the abuse was carried out under orders.
Dangerous!

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No, the ECHR system is dead. Killed by greed. It can no longer function as intended.

 

[oldgroaner]

No, the ECHR system is dead. Killed by greed. It can no longer function as intended.

Really, in that case so is the principle of justice, when the perpetrators of violence sit in judgement of their own atrocities, and can cover them up with hush money

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[trex]

Well that is where we disagree. There is a cost to the ECHR and that cost has to be paid in both cash, settling spurious claims (I'll come back to this) and potentially lives of service personnel. The latter is unacceptable given what the ECHR provides over and above the two existing authorities (Geneva Convention and UK Law).

The settling of spurious claims. No doubt the MoD has paid out on spurious claims. They look at the cost of defending each one versus the cost of settling. On a simple accountancy basis, its nearly always cheaper to settle and prohibitively expensive to defend. They could blow the entire MoD budget on lawyers if they went down that route. Scum bags are fully tuned into this and don't they just exploit it to the full?

That is what this is all about, shutting down abuse. Blame the abusers of the system, not the government.

I'm sure that the government support the ECHR in principle. After all, the UK wrote most of it. However, times have changed and people are now willing to abuse the system. Like all things, abuse it and lose it. Simple.

The MOD paid out about £20m in 10 years to settle 326 cases of injuries and abuses to Iraqi claimants. Fallon was interviewed by Andrew Neil today, he could not say how many of these 326 cases are bogus. The UN charter is quite clear, we can abrogate on the right to life and the right to liberty only in extreme situations and it must be declared and limited in time. What Fallon tries to do is conviction politics.

How the world sees us is important, don't you think?

 

[tillson]

The MOD paid out about £20m in 10 years to settle 326 cases of injuries and abuses to Iraqi claimants. Fallon was interviewed by Andrew Neil today, he could not say how many of these 326 cases are bogus. The UN charter is quite clear, we can abrogate on the right to life and the right to liberty only in extreme situations and it must be declared and limited in time. What Fallon tries to do is conviction politics.

How the world sees us is important, don't you think?

£20 million! What an outrage.

My guess is that the world sees the U.K. as a safe, just and fair country. Why else would refugees pass through other safe countries throwing bricks at police, hi-jacking lorries and risking a perilous sea crossing in order to get from one safe country to the UK? We must be seen as a very fair minded and just nation.

 

[oldgroaner]

£20 million! What an outrage.

My guess is that the world sees the U.K. as a safe, just and fair country. Why else would refugees pass through other safe countries throwing bricks at police, hi-jacking lorries and risking a perilous sea crossing in order to get from one safe country to the UK? We must be seen as a very fair minded and just nation.

Nice try as usual, but people coming to this country have only been exposed to the highly "sanitised" picture we present to the world through the lapdog media, so have no idea of the truth, any more than the average Brexit voter did.

 

[tillson]

Nice try as usual, but people coming to this country have only been exposed to the highly "sanitised" picture we present to the world through the lapdog media, so have no idea of the truth, any more than the average Brexit voter did.

The question posed by trex concerned how the rest of the world perceives us. Clearly we are held in high regard judged by the number of people trying to get here and the lengths they go to in order get here.

 

[oldgroaner]

The question posed by trex concerned how the rest of the world perceives us. Clearly we are held in high regard judged by the number of people trying to get here and the lengths they go to in order get here.

High regard? Very droll when according to brexit fans they come because we are an easy target to exploit.
You can't have it both ways tillson, is it to be either an easy touch or because we are highly regarded?[emoji1]

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[flecc]

The question posed by trex concerned how the rest of the world perceives us. Clearly we are held in high regard judged by the number of people trying to get here and the lengths they go to in order get here.

As one Romanian remarked on TV, it's the benefits system that's held in high regard.

He said "The British are very generous" with a smug smile, so perhaps also generous in handing out violent abuse?
.

 

[tillson]

High regard? Very droll when according to brexit fans they come because we are an easy target to exploit.
You can't have it both ways tillson, is it to be either an easy touch or because we are highly regarded?[emoji1]

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I think it's because the British people are held in very high regard. Something is causing people to battle their way into the country and that must be it.

 

[mike killay]

Tillson,
It's the benefits.
We are the mugs.

 

[anotherkiwi]

That is what this is all about, shutting down abuse. Blame the abusers of the system, not the government.

I think the real abuse was going into Irak. Whose fault was that? Wouldn't it be a Labour PM of yours trying to make a name for himself in the history books? He is the one that should be in front of the ECHR for crimes against humanity.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Theresa May started the conference with David Davis saying that control of immigration was the priority even if it meant quitting the single market.
Now today only 2 days later,no doubt jilted by the very low value of the pound May suggested that business will have access to the single market.
They obviously still don't know what they want out of exiting negotiations.
Liam Fox's comment that the EU citizens in the UK are 'a bargaining card',I find using people as a bargaining chip as disgusting and disrespectful,no wonder UK are setting themselves up as a hated country,led by the Brexiters.
I have noticed that Leavers will not have anything discussed that distracts from the goal of exiting the EU....if the Japs pull the plug on UK car manufacture,if the banks leave the city because of lack of passporting and the pound falls to parity with the dollar....none of this matters by Leavers just as long as we can stop students,hard working immigrants and NHS workers coming into the UK....ironically we need these migrants to keep our country running.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

There was a older lady being pushed around the supermarket today,a young EU girl was pushing the wheelchair,clearly the girl carer was Eastern European.
The girl was helping the lady load her shopping,they were discussing Brexit amongst the queue.
I asked the girl if she felt comfortable in this country after our government were committed to restricting immigrants such as her to coming to our country,she replied that she felt the UK was no longer a future for her.
The old lady said she was a lovely girl and was helping her so much.
I asked the old lady if she had voted in the referendum....she said she had voted Leave.
I pointed out to her that the girl who was helping her so much was an immigrant and Leave meant she was no longer wanted here....the old lady replied that she only wanted the blacks to be kicked out!
KudosDave

 

[oldgroaner]

Theresa May started the conference with David Davis saying that control of immigration was the priority even if it meant quitting the single market.
Now today only 2 days later,no doubt jilted by the very low value of the pound May suggested that business will have access to the single market.
They obviously still don't know what they want out of exiting negotiations.
Liam Fox's comment that the EU citizens in the UK are 'a bargaining card',I find using people as a bargaining chip as disgusting and disrespectful,no wonder UK are setting themselves up as a hated country,led by the Brexiters.

KudosDave

May and co prove the old saying and give it a new twist.

Power corrupts
But Brexit corrupts absolutely

Now that would make a good T shirt slogan.

 

[tillson]

Tillson,
It's the benefits.
We are the mugs.

I know, I was just baiting

 

[tillson]

I think the real abuse was going into Irak. Whose fault was that? Wouldn't it be a Labour PM of yours trying to make a name for himself in the history books? He is the one that should be in front of the ECHR for crimes against humanity.

I agree with you. What are the chances of that happening?

 

[oldgroaner]

I know, I was just baiting

Some of us knew that too[emoji1]

I agree with you. What are the chances of that happening?

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[oldgroaner]

Some of us knew that too[emoji1]



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About the same as May keeping her promises for a caring society

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