Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

this graph may explain the thinking of Mrs May's government which is beholden to the attitude of brexiters:
basically, if the economic news are bad, then the government veers toward soft brexit. The middle point for brexiters is -2.5% of their personal income. Mrs May may have to wait until we hit some substantial bad news before notifying the EU. If she calls before that, the only way is hard brexit.

And the irony is that as the Government have already categorically stated the number of immigrants could even exceed present levels if they deem it advantageous to the economy.
That is the underlying "Elephant in the room"
Basically any sacrifice on the part of the Brexit voters will be for absolutely nothing more than Cosmetic,Illusory and temporary changes to the Status Quo.

 

[oldgroaner]

This is interesting
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/28/government-must-disclose-legal-arguments-article-50-procedure-peoples-challenge
According to the Government lawyers
"Brexit has nothing constitutionally to do with the Scottish and Northern Ireland devolved governments, that parliament ‘clearly understood’ it was surrendering any role it might have in Brexit by passing the EU Referendum Act, that it has no control over making and withdrawal from treaties and that individuals can have fundamental rights conferred by acts of parliament stripped away if and when the executive withdraws from the treaties on which they are based."

This line is particularly Damning
" and that individuals can have fundamental rights conferred by acts of parliament stripped away if and when the executive withdraws from the treaties on which they are based.

So Parliament has no authority, we are living in a Dictatorship. run by the "Executive"
Er, what executive would that be, and who elected it to power over Parliament?

Isn't it nice to have confirmation that there is a Mafia running the show?

 

[oldgroaner]

This is interesting


So Parliament has no authority, we are living in a Dictatorship. run by the "Executive"
Er, what executive would that be, and who elected it to power over Parliament?

Isn't it nice to have confirmation that there is a Mafia running the show?

Looking back at this post I am tempted to wonder at the language employed, which specifically did not refer to the Party in Power, but referred to the "Executive"
The obvious Question is are they one and the same?
Or is the "Executive" independent, unelected and permanent?
And the notion that it has unilateral power to break treaties agreed by Parliament is putting too much power into it's hands.

That question needs a full, complete and honest (what an idea!) response.

 

[trex]

I expect the government to lose on this one.

 

[oldgroaner]

I expect the government to lose on this one.

Which Government would that be?
The Mythical Executive, or Parliament?
From Wikipedia
"A parliamentary system is a system of democraticgovernance of a state where the executive branchderives its democratic legitimacy from the legislature (parliament) and is also held accountable to that legislature. "
If the "Executive" can break treaties, then it isn't accountable to parliament is it?

Note the term "accountable" not independent or "Superior or Senior to"

 

[trex]

calling article 50 does not amount to breaking the Maastricht treaty though. Parliament has plenty of time to oppose or reverse it. I am much more enclined to wait for the (non) delivery of brexit promises. It's time for reflection. It's still possible to have a smaller cake and eat it (over the next 10 years).

 

[oldtom]

Perhaps if London were to declare UDI from the UK, that might grab the attention of MPs and the population!

Alternatively, London, Scotland and NI?

Tom

 

[trex]

my favourite scenario is for the UK to rejoin the EU mark II after the wave of nationalism subsides. It can be just around the corner, within the next 5 to 10 years.

 

[oldgroaner]

calling article 50 does not amount to breaking the Maastricht treaty though. Parliament has plenty of time to oppose or reverse it. I am much more enclined to wait for the (non) delivery of brexit promises. It's time for reflection. It's still possible to have a smaller cake and eat it (over the next 10 years).

Assuming once invoked, the EU will permit it to be reversed of course.

 

[oldgroaner]

my favourite scenario is for the UK to rejoin the EU mark II after the wave of nationalism subsides. It can be just around the corner, within the next 5 to 10 years.

Hopefully.

 

[Andrew Hodson]

So we been in EEC for years, & still Max. 200W for 1 person bike, small petrol bikes still need licenses, still 70 mph limit on 2-carriage way.

 

[oldgroaner]

So we been in EEC for years, & still Max. 200W for 1 person bike, small petrol bikes still need licenses, still 70 mph limit on 2-carriage way.

The 70 mph limit is one of our own introduced to economise on fuel, and nothing to do with the EU
Small petrol bikes have always needed licenses long before we joined the EU, and the current limit for Ebikes in this country is 250 watts, though in certain parts of the EU 350 watt 28 MPH Speed Pedelecs are permitted.
Are you under the impression that the EU dictate the road regulations to us?
The truth is they don't and never have, for instance we drive on the left unlike most of them.
Were we have accepted the same regulations on signs and limits, it was by our own Governments choice, not dictated to them, not even once.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Motorway speed limit in France 130 km/h, in Spain 120 km/h, Germany still has a few sections without a limit. There you go an example of the nasty EU forcing its standards on everyone...

Seeing the state of UK roads I think 70 mph is a very reasonable limit!

Just what has the EU done to make you as an individual hate it so? I have many reasons to be peeved by the French government but I can't think of a single thing the EU has done to make my life worse. That is because the EU only makes propositions and norms which country governments can accept or not. Your government is in control (er, perhaps not in your case) of running your country not the EU.

 

[flecc]

So we been in EEC for years, & still Max. 200W for 1 person bike,

Not so, we harmonised with the EU pedelec rules on 6th April 2015 and now have the 250 watt assist limit, very liberally interpreted via the EN15194 standard.

We also removed all weight limits at the same time, and for the first time now permit assist-powered bikes with more than three wheels, i.e. quads and even bikes with more than four wheels.
.

 

[oldtom]

So we been in EEC for years, & still Max. 200W for 1 person bike, small petrol bikes still need licenses, still 70 mph limit on 2-carriage way.

Yes, sod the EU! Let's do our own thing and reduce the power limit on EAPCs and let's get our speed limits down to sensible levels......and ban those nuisance, small petrol bikes. That'll show 'em!

Moreover, how nice it would be to re-establish our own British road signs - I mean, who needs all these standardised, pan-European, fancy-pants things that you see all over the countries that let the Nazis walk all over them?

Let's take charge of things again like it used to be when we ruled the waves! It's only right that the mother of parliaments should be in charge of these matters, otherwise who knows what might happen? We could have disagreement which might lead to anarchy and that just wouldn't do!

Tom

 

[trex]

Liam Fox is an idiot,

 

[D8ve]

Liam Fox is an idiot,

Technically you should say in my opinion, ......

 

[trex]

In my opinion, Liam Fox is an idiot.
(I watched him today on TV).

 

[Kudoscycles]

Must say I watched Liam Fox speaking on video....he's no after dinner speaker is he?
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

It has occurred to me that there are parallels Tony Blair > Gordon Brown and David Cameron > Theresa May.
Tony Blair gave the PM to Gordon Brown with the punitive baggage of the banking crisis,Gordon Brown lasted one year.
David Cameron has given the PM to Theresa May with the difficult baggage of Brexit , I wonder how long Theresa May will last?
KudosDave