Brexit, for once some facts.

[trex]

Notice he has threatened cuts to pensions, health service,defence etc but not said a word about foreign aid???

That's electioneering. I think dodgy dave has more or less stopped trying to talk to Brexiters. He is now gunning for the 30% waverers. The tories will never touch the privileges of pensioners. If the triple lock is removed, it's much more likely done by a labour government after Brexit.

 

[gray198]

That's electioneering. I think dodgy dave has more or less stopped trying to talk to Brexiters. He is now gunning for the 30% waverers. The tories will never touch the privileges of pensioners. If the triple lock is removed, it's much more likely done by a labour government after Brexit.

I think it may backfire on him. He has proved to be a liar and has tried to bully the British people all through this referendum

 

[trex]

I don't think it will backfire on him but it's unpleasant to listen to nevertheless. The result needs to be clear cut, at least 55% 45% to put the matter to rest. The debate will be firmly on economics in the coming week.

 

[trex]

A poll has revealed two to one Britons prefer Norway style relationship with the EU if Brexiters win.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/11/uk-voters-back-norway-style-brexit-poll-reveals/

that won't please the Brexiters.

 

[flecc]

A poll has revealed two to one Britons prefer Norway style relationship with the EU if Brexiters win.

As we already have all the EU laws in place, that choice if we leave would minimise the negotiation problems. Since that would be the easiest for our government to negotiate and also best suits the EU, it's what we'd get, to the disgust of the Brexiters.
.

 

[trex]

if Grayling or Gove went on TV and tells the audience that we are likely to get Norway style relationship if the majority votes to leave. Will 1 of 5 Brexiters abstain?

 

[gray198]

That's electioneering. I think dodgy dave has more or less stopped trying to talk to Brexiters. He is now gunning for the 30% waverers. The tories will never touch the privileges of pensioners. If the triple lock is removed, it's much more likely done by a labour government after Brexit.

I suspect the reason that Dave never threatened cutting foreign aid was because it wouldn't frighten anyone, and after all that is what he is trying to do

 

[derf]

The real shock will be the steps the UK government takes what it regards as essential defence of the Profit Margin of business, and the damage done to our rights and standard of living in the process.
And that applies to any Government left or right.
We are simply likely to lose the social progress made in a generation overnight, for no good reason except fear and jealousy over immigration, that has been exploited exaggerated , and used as propaganda by the three main enemies of the country, the press ,the Conservative Party, and UKIP.

yes, where i work in the NHS i saw two Polish patients the past two weeks and remarked to a colleague how seldom we see immigrants (to be fair, it is the leafy shires). But if brexit happens how ironic that a little envy (everyone must know by now immigrants make a substantial net contribution to UK) will do such terminal damage, talk about destructive envy.

 

[gray198]

yes, where i work in the NHS i saw two Polish patients the past two weeks and remarked to a colleague how seldom we see immigrants (to be fair, it is the leafy shires). But if brexit happens how ironic that a little envy (everyone must know by now immigrants make a substantial net contribution to UK) will do such terminal damage, talk about destructive envy.

Derf nobody is talking about no immigrants,which is the argument constantly thrown at the leave side. It is being grossly misrepresented. Everybody knows the contribution made by immigrants in the health service and other industries. We don't need to be constantly reminded. What is being proposed is the ability to control and regulate. I am sure people will still be able to come and work here where vacancies exist. I just wonder how a country such as France would have reacted in three hundred thousand Brits turned up every year wanting jobs and housing.???

 

[Fordulike]

Don't do that. Until recently I had a 2000 watt one, but had to run it most of the time with its power turned down over a third to stop it lifting up carpets, carpet tiles, edgings etc. It was just far too powerful.

Eventually it committed suicide with a spectacular bang and flash!
.

Don't let Clarkson hear you say that

 

[Croxden]

which is the argument constantly thrown at the leave side. It is being grossly misrepresented.

Well, I never!

 

[trex]

...
What is being proposed is the ability to control and regulate. I am sure people will still be able to come and work here where vacancies exist.
...

If the referendum goes Brexit way, it does not mean that Brexiters will have their way.
Parliament and the goverment are fundamentally pro EU, MPs are 2 to 1 pro EU. A recent poll puts the Norway option well ahead of all the other options. Two out of three prefer this option after Brexit. We would be out of the EU but everything else goes on with very little change. We have better border control than Norway at the moment. British citizens can enter Norway and look for work or set up in business up to 6 months without formalities.After that, you are required to register for permanent residency.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-norway

 

[gray198]

If the referendum goes Brexit way, it does not mean that Brexiters will have their way.
Parliament and the goverment are fundamentally pro EU, MPs are 2 to 1 pro EU. A recent poll puts the Norway option well ahead of all the other options. Two out of three prefer this option after Brexit. We would be out of the EU but everything else goes on with very little change. We have better border control than Norway at the moment. British citizens can enter Norway and look for work or set up in business up to 6 months without formalities.After that, you are required to register for permanent residency.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-norway

So basically you are saying that they will ignore the results and conspire to screw us over. Knowing how devious politicians can be I would say you are probably right. The only thing I would say to that is that they are supposed to be servants of the people. Not the other way round

 

[trex]

nobody is going to ignore the result. If leave wins, we are proceeding to get out of the EU in 2018. That's is 100% true with the Norway option, nobody breaks any promises. As long as Boris or Gove is not the next PM.
Brexiters may win one battle but that will be just it.

 

[oldgroaner]

Derf nobody is talking about no immigrants,which is the argument constantly thrown at the leave side. It is being grossly misrepresented. Everybody knows the contribution made by immigrants in the health service and other industries. We don't need to be constantly reminded. What is being proposed is the ability to control and regulate. I am sure people will still be able to come and work here where vacancies exist. I just wonder how a country such as France would have reacted in three hundred thousand Brits turned up every year wanting jobs and housing.???

Are you aware that free movement is actually conditional? here is the EU ruling
"Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.
Contrary to popular belief they cannot just move over here and stay to become a benefits claimant
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/atyourservice/en/displayFtu.html?ftuId=FTU_3.1.3.html
Here is something that proves Gove is wrong;
"The Treaty allows a Member State to refuse an EU national the right of entry or residence on the grounds of public policy, public security or public health. Such measures must be based on the personal conduct of the individual concerned, which must represent a sufficiently serious and present threat to the fundamental interests of the state. In this regard, Directive 2004/38/EC provides for a series of procedural guarantees."
And how about the flood form Bulgaria, Roumania etc?
We can stop that if we wish
"During a transitional period after the accession of new Member States, certain conditions can be applied that restrict the free movement of workers from, to and between those Member States. These restrictions do not concern travel abroad or self-employed activity, and they may differ from one Member State to another. The remaining transitional periods applicable to the accession of Bulgaria and Romania in 2007 were lifted on 1 January 2014. There are currently transitional periods for Croatian nationals, which must be lifted by July 2020 at the latest."
Note;may differ from one Member State to another, meaning there is LOCAL control.

 

[trex]

what vote leave will achieve if winning is higher cost to the country for a little pride in return.

 

[gray198]

what vote leave will achieve if winning is higher cost to the country for a little pride in return.

Worth it to be freed from being controlled by faceless failed politicians. Maybe we will be poorer for while but maybe we will get stronger. No one knows

 

[oldgroaner]

Are you aware that free movement is actually conditional? here is the EU ruling
"Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.

Worth it to be freed from being controlled by faceless failed politicians. Maybe we will be poorer for while but maybe we will get stronger. No one knows

Freed from Faceless failed politicians? are you saying the Conservative Government has called for a General Election?.

The only thing that will get stronger is propaganda trying to lay the blame anywhere but on themselves when inevitably we meet problems they are incompetent or powerless to deal with.
For a few years they can always blame the EU, can't they? but then what?
A big propaganda campaign to get back in of course!

 

[flecc]

Worth it to be freed from being controlled by faceless failed politicians.

Freed? Surely it's just a swap from one useless lot to another of the same?
.

 

[Volvo]

I have a particular interest in this thread as I am looking to buy a house in Spain.
My views will probably differ radically from some others, so if they don't make any sense to you, then please ignore them. I do not think I am right, just that I have interpreted the situation according to my own prejudices, and if anything resonates with you, I would value your input.
Many posters on this thread obviously know more about economics than I do, to them I would simply say that "the map is not the territory."

I believe that Britain is controlled by the largely American Military/Industrial Complex. Cameron is their current poodle. Blair went grey.
Anyone else getting into the hot seat will soon find out who's running the show.
But - and here's the thing, we simply do not have politicians of the necessary calibre to make a success of staying in or getting out.

I do not believe for a moment that if the vote goes for 'OUT' we will get out.
Recent American elections have shown that if the tall guy doesn't win, they count the votes again, and again, until he does. If they have to disenfranchise a few thousand voters on technicalities, it's no problem.
In our case, the legality of extending the registration window can be questioned, and the result of the Referendum is not in any case binding on the government.

British immigrants are made welcome in Andalusia.
Maybe that's why the air is so fresh.

Volvo.