I feel for you tillson, having been in this same situation in the past, I hope that she makes a quick recovery and that you do not suffer too much till that happens, all the best my friend.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Yes , on reflection might be better to simply forget last referendum, have a new one and actually determine real level of support on either side...but insist on a 60% vote for a decision.???
On a personal note , I couldn't care less about the lies from.leave, I took all the rhetoric from both sides with a pinch of salt. All politicians lie. Sad but true.
There are two things contributing to my changing support.
Firstly , it was never made clear the level of integration that has developed between us and the EU. I,ve come to think unravelling the relationship is just too involved.Yes , perhaps naive on my part.
Secondly ( Which has 2 connected issues) The level of support for eu and the emotional attachment shown by so many has indicated to me that many folk want to stay far more than I want(ed) to leave. Related to this is the release of dangerous emotions shown by the extremes on both sides. Brexit does seem to have taken the lid off some very deep seated but ultimately misplaced feelings.
Can the genie be put back in the bottle, can things be unsaid ? Lets hope so.
The Brexit some were expecting is simply not going to happen anyway, whatever happens.?
I genuinely supported leave on economic grounds, I did believe Peter Hargreaves. Initially I was infuriated by the fact so many labelled all leavers racist, however having seen and listened to a few leavers this reaction was not surprising but not justified and still isn't.
The whole issue has proved too divisive.
The country should never have been offered the option of leaving , ultimately it has been proved nobody knew how to achieve it. The writing was on the wall immediately Cameron resigned.It was a bad sign. It was an option he offered he could not deliver. Utter stupidity.
Last edited:
True, a subject our governments preferred to avoid. I was well aware of it, a subject I'd followed closely and discussed over the years with my farmer brother, an industry very closely integrated with the EU.
As long as four or five years ago we were agreed that separation had become impossible, so tightly we were interwound on so many aspects. Nowhere is that more true than with the ECJ, whose supremacy is written into so many of the laws passed over decades.
Unfortunately some of our MPs haven't followed the subject closely and still foolishly think in term of us being a independent entity. The truth is just beginning to dawn on them.
.
Scary sentence! By the time truth dawns on a politician it usually the sign that the end is nigh...
.. an interesting story, but unless your sailboards have 100m masts , slightly irrelevant. The windfarm you have derided , has a faceplate power output of 30MegaW, and in its operation to date, which would have included a bedding in phase, since it was only commissioned a year ago has averaged 27% capacity.
Not bad . Wind farms publish their outputs.
Danid
Google Capacity Factor. I think you are getting it confused with efficiency. They are different. If you have used the Variable Pitch Fraisthorpe site ( which are same as figures you quote) the figures quoted are misleading. They are Capacity Factors, not efficiency.
Also have a look at wind stats for uk ( NEAB site)
There has been a concerted effort to convince us all wind farms would be viable in UK..Yes perhaps certain areas but not east coast.
The blurb selling turbines even suggests sites with a minimum 8m/s average and quotes a 75% reduction in power to one with a 6m/s mean..Fraisthorpe ( according to NEAB ) has 6m/s. According to windfinder it has one of under 4m/s.( By experience I,d tend to agree with windfinder..even allowing for fact NEAB quote at 25 m..( about a 10% increase)
And even if Fraisthorpe achieved 27% efficiency its not very good is it? . It works a quarter of its time and we cant predict which quarter ?
How could we run an industry on that?
Yes, it makes the farmer loads of money, yes Turbine salesmen will shout how great they are,the green brigade will do same...but its not actually helping really when we need coal/ oil/ nuclear for its 75% down time ( or even 100% at times)
Fraisthorpe seems to be a white elephant.
Evenso, it generates income in the region of £3.5M a year.
The site is a farm, the land used by the wind farm occupies 10.4 hectares.
It shows how much more profitable the business is with FIT compared to agricultural income from the land.
Evenso, it generates income in the region of £3.5M a year.
The site is a farm, the land used by the wind farm occupies 10.4 hectares.
It shows how much more profitable the business is with FIT compared to agricultural income from the land.
Last edited:
It seems even the Express is wavering
"
Brexit shortcut: Britain urged to become 'associate member' of Efta to boost global ties
BRITISH ministers are being urged to consider becoming an “associate member” of the European Free Trade Association (Efta) to help immediately boost global trade ties after Brexit."
But the Readers comments are not 67% voted against in a poll
"
Brexit shortcut: Britain urged to become 'associate member' of Efta to boost global ties
BRITISH ministers are being urged to consider becoming an “associate member” of the European Free Trade Association (Efta) to help immediately boost global trade ties after Brexit."
But the Readers comments are not 67% voted against in a poll
Democracy cannot exist with 40% of whoever votes being the winner, if we have another referendum it's up to the remain campaigners to do a better job this time, on the other hand I am prepared to forego democracy next time there is a general election and have the Tories needing 80% to get in.
They always say follow the money for the truth.
Electricity is sold back to grid at £76.40 per MWH..its not difficult to work back from the £3.5 million,( calculate how many MWH were bought) the fact Fraisthorpe is a 30 MW farm and arrive at efficiency. It works out from this at between 17 and 18 %( ie they sold roughly 46,000 MWH and farm is capable of 30x24x365 MWH at full hours,full wind)
Quoting Capacity Factor is at best misleading by Variable Pitch ( folk running farm)
Rather like VAG and their ideas about efficiency , mpg and emissions !
Last edited:
I am one of those people who was/am happy to be both British & European. I try to keep myself well informed but did not realise the extent of integration with the EU. In hindsight it is fairly obvious after 40 years of developing integration. It seems to me that the whole fiasco was driven by misinformation & a minority Tory agenda. There is an interesting article by Mathew Parris in today's Times. As a lifelong Tory, he is actually embarrassed to be associated with the Torys. I still fail to see how aligning ourselves with Trump et al furthers an agenda of taking back control and is an improvement over our relationship with Europe. As I've said before it takes more than reason to change minds and Brexit remains an emotionally driven agenda. The true horror is that it will continue to dominate or lives for years to come.
Taking back control was always meant to confuse the voters into imagining it meant them, when it fact it meant separating them from the social advantages membership of the EU confers, and re establishing control by what can only be seen as so right wing a regime for it to be indistinguishable from fascism.
This aspect of it is to me of far graver import than the economic situation, dire though that may be, and this can only end in tears.
Sent from my Lenovo TB3-850F using Tapatalk
Last edited:
Perhaps you should look at capacity factor again. The turbine field has a faceplate power rating of 29.7megaw., meaning that this is the highest power it can produce before feathering all. 9 of 3.3MW peak turbines. The total potential capacity per annum would be 8700 X 29.7 MWhr The total capacity per month is the number of days per month 28, 30,31 multiplied by the daily rate. , and is an upper limit on what is achievable. The published capacity factor is the return made by the utility to the office for generation, and is an audited return, not a prediction. So while 27% as a figure is relatively low, it is within the acceptable band. It means that over the year that farm outputted 10megawatt on average 24 7,. Not that it outputted 10megawatt continuously. I suspect that your Spanish windfarm will have much better overall figures.
As a physicist, you should have a better appreciation of what constitutes efficiency. You need in each instance to define your inputs and outputs otherwise it's nonsense.
The majority of this was written this morning but due to travelling could not be uploaded until now.
I see from your later posting that you are confusing faceplate ratings with reality... A fallacy I referred to in my earlier posting. It is as logical as saying that any car stopped in traffic, or in the garage at home, is at a low capacity factor, because it's not outputting 100kw.
As a physicist, you should have a better appreciation of what constitutes efficiency. You need in each instance to define your inputs and outputs otherwise it's nonsense.
The majority of this was written this morning but due to travelling could not be uploaded until now.
I see from your later posting that you are confusing faceplate ratings with reality... A fallacy I referred to in my earlier posting. It is as logical as saying that any car stopped in traffic, or in the garage at home, is at a low capacity factor, because it's not outputting 100kw.
Last edited:
Something that made me smile, but seems quite likely to be true
This weekend is the Annual "Veterans Weekend" on Hull East Park where the armed Forces and other charities too put up stands and do displays and there are diverse attractions like a full scale section of a Lancaster Bomber front end and cockpit that visitors can climb into, a replica Mark 1V Spitfire and also a Fun Fair.
Talking to some of the Army chaps manning the recruiting booth, they confided they had been sounded out as to whether they thought that a Volunteer force to guard and watch the Coastline on the lines of the Second World War Home Guard organisation was feasible and what were their feelings on the subject.
They were not impressed, obviously seeing that the Army reserves would be suborned into this and all the training intended to make them a Territorial Reserve wasted.
I can quite see their point, at the moment coverage along the channel coast as an example is being done by the remaining remnant of the Coastguard, and gaps being filled in by the National Coastwatch Charity
https://www.nci.org.uk/
They are a splendid bunch, i visited the Cape Cornwall watch and spent half an hour with the Watchkeeper viewing the radar tracks and listing to the Airborne traffic in the channel.
But what a disgrace that we have to resort to charity to watch our coast, or rely on "The Revenge of Dad's Army" when such a fuss is made of "taking back control" and "protecting our shores"
This weekend is the Annual "Veterans Weekend" on Hull East Park where the armed Forces and other charities too put up stands and do displays and there are diverse attractions like a full scale section of a Lancaster Bomber front end and cockpit that visitors can climb into, a replica Mark 1V Spitfire and also a Fun Fair.
Talking to some of the Army chaps manning the recruiting booth, they confided they had been sounded out as to whether they thought that a Volunteer force to guard and watch the Coastline on the lines of the Second World War Home Guard organisation was feasible and what were their feelings on the subject.
They were not impressed, obviously seeing that the Army reserves would be suborned into this and all the training intended to make them a Territorial Reserve wasted.
I can quite see their point, at the moment coverage along the channel coast as an example is being done by the remaining remnant of the Coastguard, and gaps being filled in by the National Coastwatch Charity
https://www.nci.org.uk/
They are a splendid bunch, i visited the Cape Cornwall watch and spent half an hour with the Watchkeeper viewing the radar tracks and listing to the Airborne traffic in the channel.
But what a disgrace that we have to resort to charity to watch our coast, or rely on "The Revenge of Dad's Army" when such a fuss is made of "taking back control" and "protecting our shores"
This very accurate description of the tory government found its way on to mainstream social media:
Those who vote for such evil people should be ashamed of themselves.
Tom
Those who vote for such evil people should be ashamed of themselves.
Tom
History is repeating itself with resources this time for Electric Car batteries, not just a shortage of Lithium, but Cobalt too
"At the heart of the global cobalt trade is Glencore. The metals and mining giant produces almost a third (28,300 tonnes) of the world’s annual supply. As much as 65% of this global supply comes from the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), where cobalt production has fallen this year because of the unstable political situation. This sparked a 90% jump in the price of cobalt to a peak of $61,000 a tonne earlier this month.
And the usual exploitation of humanity occurs
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/business/batteries/congo-cobalt-mining-for-lithium-ion-battery/
For every action
there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Electric Cars, a godsend or a curse?
"At the heart of the global cobalt trade is Glencore. The metals and mining giant produces almost a third (28,300 tonnes) of the world’s annual supply. As much as 65% of this global supply comes from the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), where cobalt production has fallen this year because of the unstable political situation. This sparked a 90% jump in the price of cobalt to a peak of $61,000 a tonne earlier this month.
And the usual exploitation of humanity occurs
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/business/batteries/congo-cobalt-mining-for-lithium-ion-battery/
For every action
there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Electric Cars, a godsend or a curse?
.. you don't have to do any calculation other than addition. Their website gives the audited energy output each month.
A lot of people did believe what Boris and Gove told them,especially the money going to the NHS,many of those people now regret the leave decision and would like to vote again,now they know the truth.
Just amazing that Boris and Gove rather than being marched off to the Gulag have been 'rewarded' with high government posts,....it's sort of rewarding the Krays with head of the serious crime squad.
KudosDave
We first-world countries have a lot to answer for, particularly in our ongoing exploitation of the African and Asian peoples. Nothing much seems to have changed in the attitude of western business moguls through the last three centuries....perhaps other than the fact that they have created and moulded a political and judicial system in order to legitimise and protect abusive and health-detrimental conditions for those they need employ to ensure the continuation of their wealth expansion.
Tom