Brexit, for once some facts.

[MikelBikel]

Cars getting heavier in name of safety is actually counterproductive. Besides good crash protection, as you well know, is not mutually exclusive to light weight. (smart cars are amazingly good in crash protection, as is the F1 racing pod/tub. (a light component)
I strongly suspect the whole industry has gone down the wrong route.
Carbon fibre, carbon reinforced plastics, epoxy resins, boron steel, have in most parts past the industry by. Buyers have just accepted the increase in weight and related extra expense as being inevitable. It wasn't. That's where legislation should have come in years ago, to steer our requirements to lighter, less polluting, more efficient transport.
Even current small cars (eg Twizzy) are in fact large cars made small rather than built/designed from ground up.
It's senseless that cars from 80s are lighter than those of today. It's laziness and industrial momentum, the likes of which destroyed British car industry.
Lighter cars should have been the norm years ago. With advancement in engine technology we could have witnessed startling economy by now.
YES, there would have been compromises. Towing trailers, roof racks and Caravans should all have been things of past. Cars built as they were 50 years ago allows all that to continue. There has never been any steering of industry until now, and it's now panic managent in every department.
Ban ICE but not the process that got us here,and then allow folk who can afford it to pretend driving in Teslas is saving Polar Bears.

And
UK is currently producing just under 50% of its electricity from gas. (30% from renewable)
Best gas turbines in the world can achieve 60% or so efficiency but the ones UK utilises hover around the 50% mark. View attachment 50431

Diesel engines are in fact generally slightly more efficient than Gas Turbines. Modern ones vary between 40 and 60%.(quite an improvement on the original 23 % or so)

So the argument using electrical vehicles increases overall efficiency is wrong.

When will UK ever be using 100% green electricity??

The ever-improving efficiency of the diesel engine - International Council on Clean Transportation

A strong case can be made that the pending U.S. decision on HDV engines standards should push the technology envelope as hard as is feasible based on emerging efficiency technologies.

theicct.org

View attachment 50432

Heavier electric vehicle needs more power to accelerate its greater mass, more toxins from tyres & brakes to stop, and just moves that extra pollution of manufacture to poorer areas, that's physics..

A FOI request to London Mayor's office discovered only 1 person killed by vehicle emissions in last 20 years, so pollution is a non-issue..("Geoff Buys Cars" YT).

Does an ev produce less emissions than an equivalent ice vehicle if we include its construction *And Battery Disposal*? ("thermally treating", i.e. burning them for Cobalt, Nickel & Copper) tut tut!

It has been claimed that the 15 biggest container ships produce as much pollution as all 760 million cars in the world. So make them electric first, yes?..

And I like the Parting quip in this article:
"There is a green aspect to ev's, some companies make a lot of money off of making them". Kerching!

Study: Electric Vehicles Pollute More Than Gas-powered Cars - The New American

A new study has shown that electric cars, much touted as environment-friendly, actually emit more harmful pollutants than internal-combustion vehicles do. by Selwyn Duke

thenewamerican.com

 

[Woosh]

It has been claimed that the 15 biggest container ships produce as much pollution as all 760 million cars in the world.

760 million cars: are you sure it's not a typo? Container ships are assumed to be more efficient than any other form of transport. If you say one of those uses the same amount of fuel as 1,000 cars, that's believable but 760 million/15=5 million cars for each one super container ship?
Super container ships are supposed to save about 50% in fuel compared to small container ships.

Oil consumption of containerships | Peak Everything, Overshoot, & Collapse (energyskeptic.com)
Table 1 Energy efficiency of transportation in kilojoules/ton/kilometer (Smil 2013), Ashby 2015)

(A) ……………Transportation mode
50……………. Oil tankers and bulk cargo ships
100–150….. Smaller cargo ships
250–600….. Trains
360………….. Barge
2000–4000 Trucks
30,000…….. Air freight
55,000…….. Helicopter

(A) Kilojoules of energy used to carry one ton of cargo one kilometer Transportation mode

 

[flecc]

Heavier electric vehicle needs more power to accelerate its greater mass, more toxins from tyres & brakes to stop, and just moves that extra pollution of manufacture to poorer areas, that's physics..

A FOI request to London Mayor's office discovered only 1 person killed by vehicle emissions in last 20 years, so pollution is a non-issue..("Geoff Buys Cars" YT).

Does an ev produce less emissions than an equivalent ice vehicle if we include its construction *And Battery Disposal*? ("thermally treating", i.e. burning them for Cobalt, Nickel & Copper) tut tut!

It has been claimed that the 15 biggest container ships produce as much pollution as all 760 million cars in the world. So make them electric first, yes?..

And I like the Parting quip in this article:
"There is a green aspect to ev's, some companies make a lot of money off of making them". Kerching!

Study: Electric Vehicles Pollute More Than Gas-powered Cars - The New American

A new study has shown that electric cars, much touted as environment-friendly, actually emit more harmful pollutants than internal-combustion vehicles do. by Selwyn Duke

thenewamerican.com

Why do you keep posting this sort of bunkum?

E-vehicles produce far, far less polutionthan i.c. vehicles, there is no comparison. Articles like the one you linked to are ignorant or wilfully dishonest, for example with the mention of brake pad emissions. E-vehicles suffer far less brake pad wear than any other vehicles since they rely on recovered energy from motor braking. I barely have to use the brake pedal on my e-car since the motor does all the routine braking when I lift off the accelerator.

This lack of brake wear is yet another of the many factors that make the motor trade so unhappy about the e-car introduction. They see their business being drastically reduced due to so little going wrong or wearing on e-cars, so they issue this sort of anti e-car false propaganda.

Try some decent truthful links instead:

Electric Vehicle Myths | US EPA

Facts and myths about electric vehicles.

www.epa.gov

How clean are electric cars?

How much CO2 can electric cars really save compared to diesel and petrol cars? To answer this question we have developed a tool (see below) that compiles…

www.transportenvironment.org

Or just use your own brain:

How can an e-drive motor with a single moving part that doesn't wear (the rotor) produce more pollution from manufacture and use over time than an i.c. engine that has all this extra:

Continuous exhaust emissions from burning fossil fuel. Hundreds of internal wearing parts. Oil changes, oil filter changes. A radiator, hoses, water pump, thermostat, starter motor, alternator, gearbox, clutch or fluid flywheel, exhaust system with silencer and catalytic converter and finally the i.c. car having far more brake pad/disc wear due to all braking done that way ?
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[jonathan.agnew]

Totally agree with that but unfortunately that isn't way we are going (being pushed?)
The development, marketing and design are converging on cars needing (in theory) 60kwh plus batteries. To my mind each of these behemoths have sufficient capacity for 2 or 3 sensible sized vehicles.
Seems we are killing off dinosaurs to be replaced not by mammals but by another dinosaur.
How on earth can it be environmentally friendly to drive about in a Tesla equipped with a 100kwh battery. I don't think average person, or car buyer for that matter, actually understands the level of power and resources this new interpretation of the dinosaur is using up. Again, putting it in perspective these modern large cars, SUVs driven by bldcs are actually 350bhp plus monsters. We, ve gone from petrol heads being looked on as anti social to equally energy hungry alternatives being perfectly acceptable. It's crazy.
Instead of legislating against ICE we should have introduced weight limits to cars.
Why, with all the capability and development we have, does it need a 2000kg plus vehicle to transport 2 people. Cars have got bigger and heavier. Electrification has made that worse. A modern 3 cyl engine in a lightweight (sub 700kg)car would use less resources and ultimately produce less pollution than any 2 ton Tesla.
Modern cars have become the worst vehicles ever produced on the load to vehicle weight ratio. And it's fine by everybody. My ebike weighs 23kg,it carries a load of 120kg.
My car weighs 1780kg. Generally it carries same load. Biggest expense isn't moving the load, it's moving the vehicle. Bonkers. And getting worse in name of electrification.

The only practical argument for a large battery is if one were for example a 30 year old living in the uk without off street parking wanting to buy an ev and follow the 20 80 rule re battery charging (granted, a daft dystopic reality few with any common sense would find themselves in - I'd be in Australia on twice a uk income living in a large free standing home doing a sunny commute in a topless land rover - but let's say for argument's sake). Then a large battery becomes de riguer to avoid regular rapid and ultra rapid charging, which could kill one's battery quite quickly and work out more expensive than ice fuel (and become a time consuming pita)..

 

[MikelBikel]

I would charge my bike, but we're having a power cut at the moment! Where's my solar, wind, hydro electricity gone?

Why do electric cars cost so much more?
Coz of all the extra *resources* needed to make them.
And what happens to all these *resources*?
Well, the windmills go into landfill with the solar panels and the batteries are burnt!
That doesn't sound very green?
It is if you keep your eyes wide shut
Is there any Ray of hope?
Maybe https://electrek.co/2023/02/21/worlds-largest-battery-recycler-first-us-li-ion-recycling-factory/

Remember
"We didn't leave the stone age coz we ran out of rocks"

Li-Cycle recovers usable battery-grade materials from shredded Li-ion batteries - Charged EVs

Q&A with CEO Ajay Kochhar It’s usually one of the first objections cited by EV naysayers: batteries can’t or won’t be recycled, and they contain hazardous materials that will end up in landfills. In fact, no such sinister scenario is likely—most of the components of Li-ion batteries are...

chargedevs.com

 

[flecc]

The only practical argument for a large battery is if one were for example a 30 year old living in the uk without off street parking wanting to buy an ev and follow the 20 80 rule re battery charging (granted, a daft dystopic reality few with any common sense would find themselves in - I'd be in Australia on twice a uk income living in a large free standing home doing a sunny commute in a topless land rover - but let's say for argument's sake). Then a large battery becomes de riguer to avoid regular rapid and ultra rapid charging, which could kill one's battery quite quickly and work out more expensive than ice fuel (and become a time consuming pita)..

There's another argument for a large battery, less stress in normal usage due to the car working at far below it's maximum potential most of the time. That is why e-car batteries are lasting ten years while e-bike batteries working at near maximum only last half or a quarter that time.
.

 

[flecc]

I would charge my bike, but we're having a power cut at the moment! Where's my solar, wind, hydro electricity gone?

Why do electric cars cost so much more?
Coz of all the extra *resources* needed to make them.
And what happens to all these *resources*?
Well, the windmills go into landfill with the solar panels and the batteries are burnt!
That doesn't sound very green?
It is if you keep your eyes wide shut
Is there any Ray of hope?
Maybe https://electrek.co/2023/02/21/worlds-largest-battery-recycler-first-us-li-ion-recycling-factory/

Remember
"We didn't leave the stone age coz we ran out of rocks"

Li-Cycle recovers usable battery-grade materials from shredded Li-ion batteries - Charged EVs

Q&A with CEO Ajay Kochhar It’s usually one of the first objections cited by EV naysayers: batteries can’t or won’t be recycled, and they contain hazardous materials that will end up in landfills. In fact, no such sinister scenario is likely—most of the components of Li-ion batteries are...

chargedevs.com

You just can't help yourself can you? Electric cars cost much more at the moment due in part to their low scale of manufacture and sale. Not because of all the resources going into them, since in fact they use less resources overall.

The other factor is that the car makers are fed up with competing to sell mass produced small cars at a loss, so they have at last woken up. Since e-cars will have to be expensive in this early market they are only producing the high end models which sell in smaller numbers at high profit margins.

Less work, more profit, what's not to like?

And as your link indicates, recycling of lithium batteries is entirely practical and profitable. The reason it's not happening with e-car batteries yet is that there are no batteries to recycle.

Why?

Because we've only had e-cars for ten years and the batteries are lasting that long to 70% of capacity. Then they go off to a second life in home Powerwalls for another up to ten years, collecting the current produced from rooftop solar panels. Then there will be lithium battery recycling.

There is far, far more to this subject than you and 99% of the population realise. Best you learn all there is to know before mistakenly commenting further on it.
.

 

[soundwave]

there is a $hit load of electric cars for sale on copart with bids so someone can get something out of them.

but as everything is can bus and no access to the software same as my bike and all computer controlled means they can charge what they like for the parts and even if you found one scrap it wont work because it will need to be paired with the cars controller first to even work at all like a giant iphone with wheels.

like everything these days if you cant fix it you dont own it and if they wont sell you any parts like apple you are screwed.

but you can pay a subscription fee for the heated seats when it does work

just say you get a brand new royals Royce custom spec for 1 million quid and you crash it and it goes to copart even tho it could be fixed RR will not sell you any part at all to fix it so it is parts or scrap.



its so green it can $hit in the middle of the road i bet a tesla cant do that

 

[Zlatan]

China approves biggest expansion in new coal power plants since 2015, report finds

Concerns about energy shortages drive increase as projects progress at ‘extraordinary’ speed

www.theguardian.com

Makes our efforts towards electrification rather insignificant.

 

[flecc]

China approves biggest expansion in new coal power plants since 2015, report finds

Concerns about energy shortages drive increase as projects progress at ‘extraordinary’ speed

www.theguardian.com

Makes our efforts towards electrification rather insignificant.

One side of the story. China has also made the worlds largest switch to electric vehicles, so much so that their cities often cannot even buy any other type of bus. They are also in parallel maintaining their efforts at decarbonisation with green energy.

2030 looks like being a world wide change point since that is when China aims to hit peak emissions, falling thereafter. And around 2030 is when most of Europe is banning new ic car sales.

It remains to be seen how rapidly pollution levels fall. Will we reach carbon zero by 2050? No chance. But so long as the situation continues to improve the effort will be worthwhile since it will extend life on earth.
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[Danidl]

True, and a large part of the reason is the obsession with safety and getting bigger for the ever fatter and taller population. Two foot longer, six inches wider, massively reinforced central body zone, crumple zones front and rear etc, all adding up to as much extra weight on many IC cars as a traction battery in a Nissan Leaf. A moderate family car like the early Ford Escorts went from 3/4 ton to well over a ton in Focus form. And in e-car form like my Leaf to 1.4 ton.

That's the downside.

Now the upside.

Average driver's annual mileage down 39% over several decades, that is massive.

The switch to e-cars in the UK is dramatically reducing the pollution for each one, and yes, that has been proven. Here in the UK we are producing huge amounts of current from green sources, wind especially, and the night current surplus when e-cars charge is often largely wind.

And as I've been showing, there will be far less cars on the road in future.

So far fewer cars, travelling far less annual distance and producing very little polution. It won't really matter if each one is a little obese.
.

Careful now ... I had been toying with the idea of an Audi e Tron 50, ..a huge beast at 2.5 tonnes last week . Extremely good price and very low mileage, and was just convincing myself I didn't need it.. Please don't make me second guess myself

 

[soundwave]

Toxic particles from brakes to be included in 'Euro 7' emission rules

Ultra-fine particles from brake pad abrasion will for the first time be covered under an EU regulation to curtail vehicles’ contribution to air pollution, a move aimed at reducing the high level of the toxic particles in urban areas.

www.euractiv.com

Racingline Stage 3+ Carbon-Ceramic Big Brake Kit

Carbon-Ceramic Big Brake Kit by Racingline Not only is each disc close to half the weight of the factory rotor, the kit is packed with motorsport-inspired features including our forged Stage 3 monoblock calipers and matched ceramic pad compound. The 380mm rotor construction interweaves...

unit82performanceparts.co.uk

they will have fart detectors next

 

[Danidl]

Back to Brexit ... The new deal agreed to day is extremely clever... Especially the "Stormont Break " . It allows Stormont the illusion of choice ..and that's fair, but if and when hardy comes to hardy, Westminster calls the shots. The concern will be whether the trusted traders can be trusted ..I have no problem with the big retail guys like Tesco or Marks and Spencer, there is no percentage in them flaunting rules, it's the fly boys operating two levels below them...

 

[Zlatan]

Careful now ... I had been toying with the idea of an Audi e Tron 50, ..a huge beast at 2.5 tonnes last week . Extremely good price and very low mileage, and was just convincing myself I didn't need it.. Please don't make me second guess myself

The Eton Etron. Get it Danidl. You, ve earned it matey.

 

[soundwave]

The Eton Etron. Get it Danidl. You, ve earned it matey.

just get a mobility scooter

 

[flecc]

Former EU chief Jean-Claude Juncker undermines Rishi Sunak's deal:

Jean-Claude Juncker, who was the president of the European Commission during most of the Brexit negotiations, has said the Northern Ireland protocol deal gives more authority to the EU than some in Britain are suggesting.

In an interview for LBC’s Tonight with Andrew Marr, Juncker described the deal as “a real breakthrough”. But he went on:

I think that the European Commission will have more authority than it seems. And as the European court of justice has been reconfirmed in its role as an arbiter when it comes to internal market questions concerning Northern Ireland.
So I think that, although the deal is giving a response to the major British concerns, there is a part of European Union in the deal some in Britain are trying to hide.

Information Link
.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Former EU chief Jean-Claude Juncker undermines Rishi Sunak's deal:

Jean-Claude Juncker, who was the president of the European Commission during most of the Brexit negotiations, has said the Northern Ireland protocol deal gives more authority to the EU than some in Britain are suggesting.

In an interview for LBC’s Tonight with Andrew Marr, Juncker described the deal as “a real breakthrough”. But he went on:


Information Link
.

Post truss it was an open goal for sunak, he could, practically, tell the 1922 committee were rejoining the EU while farting, noisily, in the piglets general direction. Brexit and its supporters have lost all credibility, in every possible sense.

 

[Danidl]

Former EU chief Jean-Claude Juncker undermines Rishi Sunak's deal:

Jean-Claude Juncker, who was the president of the European Commission during most of the Brexit negotiations, has said the Northern Ireland protocol deal gives more authority to the EU than some in Britain are suggesting.

In an interview for LBC’s Tonight with Andrew Marr, Juncker described the deal as “a real breakthrough”. But he went on:


Information Link
.

Why did he bother? ... I think the clever thing is for the EU and particularly ex officials to keep their mouths shut. This is nothing we didn't know.

 

[flecc]

Why did he bother? ... I think the clever thing is for the EU and particularly ex officials to keep their mouths shut. This is nothing we didn't know.

I agree, a spoiler I don't understand. Unusual for Juncker who is usually very astute, despite the way he gives the opposite impression at times.

Perhaps he really doesn't want the UK back in the fold.
.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

I agree, a spoiler I don't understand. Unusual for Juncker who is usually very astute, despite the way he gives the opposite impression at times.

Perhaps he really doesn't want the UK back in the fold.
.

Or he finds the harmony in the tory party grating and want to Stoke a bit more self destructive infighting?