Brexit, for once some facts.

[guerney]

Nowadays we are all programmed into this eat less to be healthy band wagon. If folk want to perform in any sport to a decent standard that ethos doesn't work. If on top of trying to keep involved in your sport you develop some condition (ie AF) then weakening yourself with dieting and fasting is just not going to help. It's actually going to make things worse. To sail for 3 hours or so body needs all sustanence it can get.

...which is why it's best to lose weight and exercise separately. Of course you need high levels of calorie intake when you're engaged in sport. But when you need to lose weight, it's in your power to do so with effort, will power and calorie restriction. It's all about individual choice, isn't it? I made mine and lost three stones when my doctor warned me, suggested I take statins. I didn't want a stroke or heart problems, if I could possibly avoid it. I refused statins. I could lose weight, so I did. So can anyone else. Nobody walked out of Belsen fat or "Big boned" - that wasn't about sport (at least, not for them), it was about survival.

 

[guerney]

And your statement of performing on metabolism of fat very much depends on the activity. Fat metabolism is very slow and can not supply energy to sustain anything like hard work. If you attempt to do so, result will be quick fatigue and lactic acid production and the start of your body being literally exhausted.

Again, if your energy requirements are high, of course you will feel fatigued - it's easier for the body to convert protein into energy than fat. But if you exercise and reduce calories on alternate fortnights, that's a better weight loss regime, in my experience at least - it's less exhausting and becomes easy to cope with.

 

[Zlatan]

And we all know the risks.

Slow and consistent weight loss is less problematic, easier to build into habit - I prefer intermittent fasting now, because overall it frees up time I'd otherwise be preparing to eat, eat and recover from eating at least twice more during each day. Exercise while dieting is too tough for me personally, it's much easier and appropriate to do two weeks of intermittent fasting, followed by two weeks of exercise and eating normally, on a cyclic basis.

I couldn't do that. I have to eat properly everyday. Couldn't cope with the peaks and troughs of blood sugars. I think way to go is eat well but sensibly all time, exercise regularly and eat specifically for the challenging days. (pasta day before sailing/ biking). I cut out salt years ago, cut down on fats/sugars. My feeling is at 65 and with various health problems it's more important than ever to eat like a training athlete. A footballer might fast on Monday(I believe Stanley Mathew's used to) but they never would on Friday.

 

[guerney]

Couldn't cope with the peaks and troughs of blood sugars.

Yes this can be a huge problem for some people - if I were in your shoes, I'd try to reduce my total calories consumed per day by a small margin to start with, then go cautiously with a view to reduction over time to about 1500 to 2000 (max) calories per day (looking up and weighing food before consumption), during a period when you are attempting to lose weight exclusively... which is something you've said you won't do, because you wish to exercise every day, in which case I tentatively suggest more a gentle calorie restriction policy be brought into existence between your hands and your stomach. But each to their own. And best check with your doc first.

 

[Zlatan]

Again, if your energy requirements are high, of course you will feel fatigued - it's easier for the body to convert protein into energy than fat. But if you exercise and reduce calories on alternate fortnights, that's a better weight loss regime, in my experience at least - it's less exhausting and becomes easy to cope with.

But that means my body would be incapable of performing every alternate fortnight???
I,m not saying fasting doesn't help you achieve your goals, it probably does, but if I want best performance I, m capable of whenever it's called on fasting is not helpful. (I think it could be dangerous).

 

[guerney]

But that means my body would be incapable of performing every alternate fortnight???

The first few weeks are exhausting and the worst, as you imagine, but a weird thing happens: your body adjusts. Honestly, that's what happens. Then it all becomes easy after a month or two, and actually the weekends off become a hindrance and not as enjoyable as one expects, because afterwards you have to go through the adjustment period all over again (mercifully it's much shorter, less than two days, perhaps 1.5) when you restart whatever diet you've chosen for your other 5 days... if you've chosen a 5+2 cycle that is.

 

[guerney]

(I think it could be dangerous).

For you, it might be - you've said something about blood sugar spikes and lows, therefore simple calorie reduction, for you per meal and per day, would be safer. Eat when and what you normally would, just eat a bit less.

 

[Zlatan]

Yes this can be a huge problem for some people - if I were in your shoes, I'd try to reduce my total calories consumed per day by a small margin to start with, then go cautiously with a view to reduction over time to about 1500 to 2000 (max) calories per day (looking up and weighing food before consumption), during a period when you are attempting to lose weight exclusively... which is something you've said you won't do, because you wish to exercise every day, in which case I tentatively suggest more a gentle calorie restriction policy be brought into existence between your hands and your stomach. But each to their own. And best check with your doc first.

No, as I said I can easily lose weight. I, ve never had a problem doing so. The problem is losing weight and maintaining ability to bike/sail for 3 hours. You can't get your body to deplete fat stores without going into food debt, but when you do, your performance must suffer.
The better goal is to be as healthy as possible by eating well all the time. You then feel like being active and hence burn the calories off you are consuming. Fasting actually trains your body to store food away when it does receive it,thus promoting yo yo weight and yo yoing blood sugars. But if that suits you, fine. Like I said, I couldn't cope with it.

 

[guerney]

No, as I said I can easily lose weight. I, ve never had a problem doing so. The problem is losing weight and maintaining ability to bike/sail for 3 hours. You can't get your body to deplete fat stores without going into food debt, but when you do, your performance must suffer.
The better goal is to be as healthy as possible by eating well all the time. You then feel like being active and hence burn the calories off you are consuming. Fasting actually trains your body to store food away when it does receive it,thus promoting yo yo weight and yo yoing blood sugars. But if that suits you, fine. Like I said, I couldn't cope with it.

ok

 

[Zlatan]

The first few weeks are exhausting and the worst, as you imagine, but a weird thing happens: your body adjusts. Honestly, that's what happens. Then it all becomes easy after a month or two, and actually the weekends off become a hindrance and not as enjoyable as one expects, because afterwards you have to go through the adjustment period all over again (mercifully it's much shorter, less than two days, perhaps 1.5) when you restart whatever diet you've chosen for your other 5 days... if you've chosen a 5+2 cycle that is.

You, ve been reading Mosley. Afraid I totally disagree with his ramblings. I think it's dangerous.

 

[guerney]

You, ve been reading Mosley. Afraid I totally disagree with his ramblings. I think it's dangerous.

No. Moseley dishes out quite inapproriate advice, for instance high intensity interval training will kill anyone with heart problems: you already have to be fit.

I can only speak from my experience, what you choose to do is of course your choice. I'm not on some kind of crusade.

 

[Zlatan]

No. Moseley dishes out quite inapproriate advice, for instance high intensity interval training will kill anyone with heart problems: you already have to be fit.

Well, at least we agree on one thing. Mosley is useless.

 

[guerney]

Well, at least we agree on one thing. Mosley is useless.

He leaves out facts which would otherwise prevent some people getting killed, maybe his scripts started longer? Another omission is that blood sugar spikes and dips can kill some pre-diabetic and diabetic people, also people with heart problems, when engaging in some (if not all, depending on the severity of their problems) intermittent fasting variants.

 

[Zlatan]

No. Moseley dishes out quite inapproriate advice, for instance high intensity interval training will kill anyone with heart problems: you already have to be fit.

I can only speak from my experience, what you choose to do is of course your choice. I'm not on some kind of crusade.

Me neither. But, I do think sending body into shock via fasting might well be counter productive for me (when in AF) . AF already means much of your body, organs, muscles etc are not receiving required sustanence. Blood is just not getting there quick enough. Honestly, you feel knackered after slightest exertion. (I, ve been so tired chewing was beyond me) Add to that the low blood sugars/glycogen brought about by fasting/dieting and its a place I don't want to go.
Hence, against the grain, I, m sticking with my fairly high food intake and 29 BMI.???
And I love food.

 

[guerney]

Me neither. But, I do think sending your body into shock via fasting might well be counter productive for all and for me (when in AF) particuilarly negative. AF already means much of your body, organs, muscles etc are not receiving required substance.. Blood is just not getting there quick enough. Honestly, you feel knackered after slightest exertion. (I, ve been so tired chewing was beyond me) Add to that the low blood sugars/glycogen brought about by fasting/dieting and its a place I don't want to go.
Hence, against the grain, I, m sticking with my fairly high food intake and 29 BMI.???

I haven't a clue about wht you should do regarding your diet and exercise - but if something isn't working, it's time to change one's approach.

 

[guerney]

29 BMI.???

If we froze you in liquid nitrogen, then sliced you into thin slivers, and scanned each sliver to form a 3D model, we would see all of your internal organs having their function impeded because they're both surrounded by and invaded by fat. Fact of ageing I'm afraid.

 

[Zlatan]

I haven't a clue about wht you should do regarding your diet and exercise - but if something isn't working, it's time to change one's approach.

My exercise/diet regime suit me fine.

 

[Zlatan]

If we froze you in liquid nitrogen, then sliced you into thin slivers, and scanned each sliver to form a 3D model, we would see all of your internal organs having their function impeded because they're both surrounded by and invaded by fat. Fact of ageing I'm afraid.

Probably, but last week I was windsurfing in North Sea competing with blokes half my age. It was blowing to approx 40 mph and I coped fine for 2 hours, even in AF. How's your slow jogging going?
Proof of pudding and all that.

 

[Danidl]

My Doc only had to tell me once, and it was a lot of bad news to receive - blood test was bad with low platelet count, he said something called C-reactive protein was high indicating much inflammation, low iron, low B12, high cholesterol, high blood sugar... and my eyes were (and still are) fscked and I was obese plus pre-diabetic. To lose weight one needs a will of iron, which after a lifetime of intense exercise (with periods of getting fat) and a few martial arts studied, I have in spades... so I set to work not exercising whatsoever but fully engaging with intermittent fasting five days a week (I had weekends off). It was about 8 months after shedding three stones before I felt the benefits. Now it's winter again and it's slowly piling back on. I'm about to have a hazelnut chocolate sandwich and a very sweet (aspartame) cream coffee or three. (It's my weekend off)

The point. Is I was moderate .. BPs were like 136/ 90 yellow zone not red. and weight 95kg , and non smoking , no drinking, and all blood data was pretty good . Cholesterol elavated but not extreme. . regular blood donor.
With my current statins My GP is concerned cholesterol is extremely low, but the cardiologist sys it needs to be. Weight is hovering at 90Kg and the BPs can be anywhere from 130 to 110 and 80/60

 

[Zlatan]

Athletes and muscular sport stars demonstrate the shortcomings of BMI

Confused? No sweat. Just take a look at these ''overweight'' athletes.

i.stuff.co.nz

BMI should be scrapped.