Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

If it were a public vote for choosing Conservative leader he'd still be PM. Time will tell.

Hopefully you are wrong.

But if you are right, the public fully deserve him and the appalling mess he will eventually leave behind.

We know all about that in London due to his costly eight years as mayor, thanks to the Tory fringe boroughs turn out and the complacent majority Labour voters not bothering to turn out to vote.
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[Woosh]

But if you are right, the public fully deserve him and the appalling mess he will eventually leave behind.

He was wrong about brexit. but at the end of the day, Englanders vote for house prices. At the moment, it does not look too good.
He may even lose his seat in Uxbridge at the next election.

 

[flecc]

He may even lose his seat in Uxbridge at the next election.

He's been in Uxbridge's bad books for a long time.

Knowing his dishonesty, the Uxbridge party asked him for an absolute guarantee that if they nominated him as their candidate, he would solemnly promise not to write for the newspapers.

He gave that solemn promise and became their MP.

Three months later he was writing for the Spectator.
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[Zlatan]

He's been in Uxbridge's bad books for a long time.

Knowing his dishonesty, the Uxbridge party asked him for an absolute guarantee that if they nominated him as their candidate, he would solemnly promise not to write for the newspapers.

He gave that solemn promise and became their MP.

Three months later he was writing for the Spectator.
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Can't disagree with anything you say about him, but the really frightening aspect is he is most electable MP certainly within Tories and probably a cross all parties.
I strongly suspect any PM until next GE is operating as Tory whipping boy. Come next GE Sunak, Hunt etc will be blamed for the inevitable continued government failure and BJ held up as the gifted PM brought down by back stabbers and his love of parties.
BJ is only one who can actually keep a clean sheet over next couple of years, Boris can't do anything wrong, he's not involved. Sunak, on the other hand has to perform miracles on a regular basis to not fail. Hunt is already preparing voters for bad news.

 

[Woosh]

BJ is forever associated with brexit. More and more politicians will blame brexit for anything wrong with the tories: adverse economic conditions, low productivity, poor public services, schools, hospitals, trains, roads, inflation, lack of opportunities etc and of course the NI protocol that he signed. He has no more go at the top job even if he doesn't lose his seat for lying to parliament.

 

[flecc]

BJ is only one who can actually keep a clean sheet over next couple of years, Boris can't do anything wrong, he's not involved.

True, but of no use if he is no longer an MP, which is a distinct possibility if Uxbridge throw him out. Few constituency parties would adopt him now that he is so tarnished, especially those with the safe seats that he needs.
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[Zlatan]

BJ is forever associated with brexit. More and more politicians will blame brexit for anything wrong with the tories: adverse economic conditions, low productivity, poor public services, schools, hospitals, trains, roads, inflation, lack of opportunities etc and of course the NI protocol that he signed. He has no more go at the top job even if he doesn't lose his seat for lying to parliament.

Could be Woosh but no matter how much blame is attributed to Brexit and by association to BJ until a party/mp has policy of rejoining I can't see that it would adversely affect him. They and us are all leavers now, wether we like it or not. Can't condemn BJ when rest would have done exactly same.. ie.. Left.

 

[Woosh]

MSN

City in shock as £1.3 trillion is wiped off value of UK bonds in record sell-off
That's just this year, 2022. That affects virtually everybody's pension and will be one important reason why people will not vote conservatives in the next GE.

 

[soundwave]

lmfao he got time to bitch and moan and post it online tho

 

[tillson]

What’s the solution to the migrant and asylum seeker situation in the channel? If you read the Daily Mail, they are mainly young men coming to the U.K. to work in the black economy, claim benefit, get free accommodation and access to free health care. If you read the Guardian, they are mainly refugees fleeing persecution, torture and political imprisonment. I don’t think either report is true. So what is the actual situation?

The government seems unable to quickly and efficiently determine whether a person is a migrant entering the country illegally or a refugee. That’s probably an impossible task and I don’t know how it can be achieved. It’s also likely to be the crux of the problem.

I find the situation worrying. The images of people in the processing camp are appalling. Hotels are filling up, we have no spare housing, the health service has actually collapsed, schools are hardly functioning due to numbers and a dwindling budget and the Home Secretary is telling us we are being invaded. An invasion implies that an enemy is coming ashore.

With the population being squeezed financially (I don’t think the main event has started yet. Sunak is just the warmup man, the fluffer), people are going to want a scapegoat. They won’t need to look far with the kind of language coming from our government.

What’s the solution? I don’t think we can solve this.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

What’s the solution to the migrant and asylum seeker situation in the channel? If you read the Daily Mail, they are mainly young men coming to the U.K. to work in the black economy, claim benefit, get free accommodation and access to free health care. If you read the Guardian, they are mainly refugees fleeing persecution, torture and political imprisonment. I don’t think either report is true. So what is the actual situation?

The government seems unable to quickly and efficiently determine whether a person is a migrant entering the country illegally or a refugee. That’s probably an impossible task and I don’t know how it can be achieved. It’s also likely to be the crux of the problem.

I find the situation worrying. The images of people in the processing camp are appalling. Hotels are filling up, we have no spare housing, the health service has actually collapsed, schools are hardly functioning due to numbers and a dwindling budget and the Home Secretary is telling us we are being invaded. An invasion implies that an enemy is coming ashore.

With the population being squeezed financially (I don’t think the main event has started yet. Sunak is just the warmup man, the fluffer), people are going to want a scapegoat. They won’t need to look far with the kind of language coming from our government.

What’s the solution? I don’t think we can solve this.

It's a crisis manufactured by a xenophobic tory govt to try to distract public attention from its own massive failures. If the home office did some work for a change and processed applications for asylum and either offered it or deported on a legal basis there wouldn't be a bottleneck, crisis. But that of course wouldn't suit a tory narrative or help leaky sue, or sukak or all the other monumental conservative failures, security risks.
Edit - to be fair to leaky sue, this kind of kak works, of course, like a charm with the average dim, paranoid conservative voter

 

[Woosh]

The solution is to pay a bounty on each rubber boat. French police has to be paid enough so they can buy plenty of drones to police something like 250 miles of coastline, then have the fast boats to go out and tow the rubber boats back. If you spend £2bn a year on french police, you'll soon stop the racket and sort out a proper legal route from France for refugees and migrants.

 

[flecc]

What’s the solution to the migrant and asylum seeker situation in the channel? If you read the Daily Mail, they are mainly young men coming to the U.K. to work in the black economy, claim benefit, get free accommodation and access to free health care. If you read the Guardian, they are mainly refugees fleeing persecution, torture and political imprisonment. I don’t think either report is true. So what is the actual situation?

They are almost entirely illegal economic migrants and we've seen repeated proofs of that. Huge crowds of many thousands have been fleeing Afghanistan. They can't all have been interpreters for our illegal forces there, they clearly just saw an excuse, an opportunity for an imagined economic advantage, so took advantage of it.

Syrian Sunni's too. They launched an illegal religion based civil war against their lawful government for no acceptable reason, and lost. They were not an oppressed people, they were always free to travel, study abroad, do business, prosper. They simply didn't like the government being a fixed Shia minority. For pro Israel political reasons the West idiotically took their terrorist side with military action, creating an impression that we will bail them out with residency, now they've lost their illegal and unnecessary civil war.

Also seeing the opportunity created by hordes of illegally migrating Afghans and Syrians, they were joined by even greater numbers of Africans. That was and remains blindingly obvious, the peoples of Afghanistan and Syria are not black negros, yet they are often the great majority illegally finding their way to our shores.

What’s the solution? I don’t think we can solve this.

There are two possible solutions, both pan-European based:

1) Throwing the doors open to unlimited migration, accepting that the European economies will be reduced to nearer the levels of those in the countries these migrants come from. Levelling down, effectively communism by another method.

2) Pan-European rigid enforcement of the law by prompt return of all illegal migrants to their departure points, if necessary by military enforcement of the right to do that.
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[Woosh]

There are two possible solutions, both pan-European based:

1) Throwing the doors open to unlimited migration, accepting that the European economies will be reduced to nearer the levels of those in the countries these migrants come from. Levelling down, effectively communism by another method.

2) Pan-European rigid enforcement of the law by prompt return of all illegal migrants to their departure points, if necessary by military enforcement of the right to do that.

your solutions break European human rights conventions.
Just pay the bounty. There will be plenty who will tell the bounty hunters where the boats will be. It's a fraction of the cost of putting the Albanians up in hotels.

 

[tillson]

your solutions break European human rights conventions.
Just pay the bounty. There will be plenty who will tell the bounty hunters where the boats will be. It's a fraction of the cost of putting the Albanians up in hotels.

I can’t see how it’s possible to intercept the boats and turn them round. It’s full of danger and certain to result in a sinking and / or drownings. In fairness to the French, there isn’t any incentive for them to stop the crossings. The £7 million/ day we are paying for accommodation (and that doesn’t really touch the sides when you factor in social / health care and facilities), would be their cost if they were successful in stopping them coming to the U.K.

 

[tillson]

It also impossible to talk about immigration. There doesn’t seem to be any middle ground. One camp will be screaming that the migrants are coming to rape your wife and eat your children. The other lot scream that you are a racist and denying the persecuted a safe haven.

These attitudes are frustrating any chance of a solution. It’s pathetic.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

It also impossible to talk about immigration. There doesn’t seem to be any middle ground. One camp will be screaming that the migrants are coming to rape your wife and eat your children. The other lot scream that you are a racist and denying the persecuted a safe haven.

These attitudes are frustrating any chance of a solution. It’s pathetic.

There is due legal process, its not ideal, but it's what done it for boris, and may well for sue, so it can't be all bad.

 

[Woosh]

I can’t see how it’s possible to intercept the boats and turn them round. It’s full of danger and certain to result in a sinking and / or drownings. In fairness to the French, there isn’t any incentive for them to stop the crossings. The £7 million/ day we are paying for accommodation (and that doesn’t really touch the sides when you factor in social / health care and facilities), would be their cost if they were successful in stopping them coming to the U.K.

the French tow back at present nearly half the number of rubber boats.
The key point is to find them in the first place as soon as they are on the beach. British government pays for drones and wages of the police but we need to not just keep them work the coasts but also have the capacity and incentivise them to quadruple their interventions.
You can only kill this trade in human trafficking if you make it so expensive to make a successful crossing.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

They are almost entirely illegal economic migrants and we've seen repeated proofs of that. Huge crowds of many thousands have been fleeing Afghanistan. They can't all have been interpreters for our illegal forces there, they clearly just saw an excuse, an opportunity for an imagined economic advantage, so took advantage of it.

Syrian Sunni's too. They launched an illegal religion based civil war against their lawful government for no acceptable reason, and lost. They were not an oppressed people, they were always free to travel, study abroad, do business, prosper. They simply didn't like the government being a fixed Shia minority. For pro Israel political reasons the West idiotically took their terrorist side with military action, creating an impression that we will bail them out with residency, now they've lost their illegal and unnecessary civil war.

Also seeing the opportunity created by hordes of illegally migrating Afghans and Syrians, they were joined by even greater numbers of Africans. That was and remains blindingly obvious, the peoples of Afghanistan and Syria are not black negros, yet they are often the great majority illegally finding their way to our shores.



There are two possible solutions, both pan-European based:

1) Throwing the doors open to unlimited migration, accepting that the European economies will be reduced to nearer the levels of those in the countries these migrants come from. Levelling down, effectively communism by another method.

2) Pan-European rigid enforcement of the law by prompt return of all illegal migrants to their departure points, if necessary by military enforcement of the right to do that.
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This I think is the familiar lurch to the right that accompany economic downturns, hardship. I'm sure it will happen again in the UK too. And that the conservative party will be the beneficiary of it. Perhaps it's necessary, the uk economy's shrunk to smaller than India's recently. Perhaps, once we have an Albanian sized GDP (and become the nation of illegal migrants) a degree of self awareness will kick in. Or not.

 

[flecc]

your solutions break European human rights conventions.

Yes and no. The major failing in modern law, due to it seeking to cover all needs, is how it so often rules against itself. Thus for example the Sex Offences Act 2003 breaches the Human Rights Act in a number of ways, also the Geneva Convention which has force in UK law.

In the present subject, there is a fundamental in UK law that an offender cannot benefit from the protection of the law against the consequences of their illegal act. Thus an illegal immigrant, who is an offender, cannot seek the protection of our Human Rights Act to continue with their illegal act.

Just pay the bounty. There will be plenty who will tell the bounty hunters where the boats will be. It's a fraction of the cost of putting the Albanians up in hotels.

That is not a solution, it is at best a fudge with built in failures.
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