Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

Buying from the EU

We've heard a lot from companies in the EU saying it's not worth selling and sending lower value items to the UK now we've left the EU. However an experience I've just had casts lots of doubt on that.

With a very old cheap and cheerful blender finally failing, I was in need of another for my light occasional usage. Looking online at the range of prices for one, mostly ranging from an excessive £60 to a bonkers £799, I spotted one from Philips at £19.99, much more like it for such a simple device to be used only occasionally.

I ordered it late on Friday and received prompt confirmation with a target delivery from Eindhoven, Holland of Late Tuesday via UPS at £5.99.

Both Philips and UPS kept in touch day by day with updates, the only hitch being a slight delay in Customs which caused the delivery to be delayed overnight to Wednesday, my receiving it this morning.

I've tried the product out and it's excellent, performing better than expected and great value at this price with two year warranty. The delivery charge very reasonable too, via UPS, one of the better couriers rather than a cheapjack "service" like Yahoo keeping me in the dark and delivering at unholy hours.

If Philips can do it on such a good low cost item, it gives the lie to the impossibilities we've seen claimed for the EU to trade with the UK.

No hitches at all? Just one not affecting me. An hour after receiving the delivery, UPS emailed to say they would deliver it tomorrow between 10.30 and 14.30 which of course they will find rather difficult.

This is the product if you are interested.
.

 

[oyster]

I managed to miss this (so-called) consultation:

Choice on Units of Measurement: Markings and Sales

Consultation Questions
1
For All,
a) Are there any specific areas of consumer transactions that should be a priority
for allowing a choice in units of measurement, and why?
b) Are there any specific areas that you think should be excluded from a choice in
units of measurement, and why?
c) If an item is sold in imperial measures, should there be a requirement for a
metric equivalent alongside it?
2
For Businesses,
What would be the consequences of your business having the freedom to sell
products in imperial measures, if you wished?
3
For Consumers,
a) If you had a choice, would you want to purchase items:
(i) in imperial units?
(ii) in imperial units alongside a metric equivalent?
b) Are you more likely to shop from businesses that sell in imperial units?
c) Do you foresee any costs or benefits to you from businesses being permitted
to sell:
(i) solely in imperial units?
(ii) in imperial units alongside a less prominent metric equivalent?
d) Do you have experience of buying solely in imperial units?
4
For Trading Standards,
What potential impacts might there be on regulatory activity, including any costs or
benefits?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1081018/choice-on-units-of-measurement-markings-and-sales-consultation.pdf

What absolute nonsense!

Biased, loaded questions.

In many supermarkets you can see produce prices expressed as cost per kilogram or litre. Shops have been pretty poor at these forever. Especially when they switch between per 100g, per kg, and per item.

Now throw into that mix per oz. and per lb? Or scrap these cost per unit prices? And will things sold per lb. have to be shown in both per lb. and per kg? Or do we split into Imperial unit prices and metric unit prices?

And just who among us has the least influence when it comes to things like tyre sizes? 205/65 R16 mixes metric, percentage and inches in one specification! One that appears to have been accepted universally despite its oddity. Any change would only serve to confuse even further.

 

[oyster]

Buying from the EU

We've heard a lot from companies in the EU saying it's not worth selling and sending lower value items to the UK now we've left the EU. However an experience I've just had casts lots of doubt on that.

With a very old cheap and cheerful blender finally failing, I was in need of another for my light occasional usage. Looking online at the range of prices for one, mostly ranging from an excessive £60 to a bonkers £799, I spotted one from Philips at £19.99, much more like it for such a simple device to be used only occasionally.

I ordered it late on Friday and received prompt confirmation with a target delivery from Eindhoven, Holland of Late Tuesday via UPS at £5.99.

Both Philips and UPS kept in touch day by day with updates, the only hitch being a slight delay in Customs which caused the delivery to be delayed overnight to Wednesday, my receiving it this morning.

I've tried the product out and it's excellent, performing better than expected and great value at this price with two year warranty. The delivery charge very reasonable too, via UPS, one of the better couriers rather than a cheapjack "service" like Yahoo keeping me in the dark and delivering at unholy hours.

If Philips can do it on such a good low cost item, it gives the lie to the impossibilities we've seen claimed for the EU to trade with the UK.

No hitches at all? Just one not affecting me. An hour after receiving the delivery, UPS emailed to say they would deliver it tomorrow between 10.30 and 14.30 which of course they will find rather difficult.

This is the product if you are interested.
.

There is a world of difference between a big company and a tiny to medium one.

Having to register for VAT in every country makes it a major problem for smaller outfits. If the overhead of doing so is small compared to your trading volume, the new systems aren't too bad. But the smaller you are, the bigger it is as a percentage.

Partner had a problem before brexit. The same basic idea would apply to downloadable items. She would have had to register for VAT in each and every EU country she wanted to sell into. She could end up with just a single order from, say, Latvia, but still have to register.

Her way round is to sell through an online portal such as Etsy. Which takes a substantial margin - but they do handle the VAT side.

It is much the same for EU companies selling to us.

And many have still failed to understand the rules. Whether P&P counts in the £135 limit. Whether the VAT element counts in the £135 limit. Etc. Lots seem to be getting it wrong.

As soon as you go over that £135 limit, however it is applied, it all goes haywire because it is then treated as a business to business transaction with the purchaser being responsible for, e.g., paying VAT.

If your blender had been, say £200, you'd have expected to pay the company £200 then the VAT at 20% to the carrier, plus whatever the carrier charges (at least £8 through Royal Mail - more through others).

I'll be interested how the warranty works - because the value of failed goods being returned is an issue that had still not been resolved last I looked. If there is a UK return mechanism, fine, but if you had to send it to Netherlands, it is unclear if it has any value. And, when they send a replacement (as usually happens rather than repair), you could end up having to pay the UK VAT! Again, a bigger problem above £135.

On Friday I ordered a pair of trousers from Aldi (working type) - cheap and acceptable. Woudl be delivered Friday 16th. They actually arrived yesterday (13th). Which was fine - except Evri, the poster boy for crap delivery, delivered them two doors down to the wrong house and simply threw them on the floor. The hosue is unoccupied but a couple fo worken were doing some work and were decent enough to bring them to us! Of course, no photo of delivery. Even the GPS position shows it is the wrong location.

 

[flecc]

Her way round is to sell through an online portal such as Etsy. Which takes a substantial margin - but they do handle the VAT side.

Precisely, knowing I'd be challenged I was ready with this form of answer. A good margin taken on a cheap but good item still leaves it a cheap but good item. If my blender had been £24.99 instead of £19.99, it would still have been very attractive against the other barmy prices I gave, so I'd still have bought it.

The truth is that these smaller EU companies raising so many objections and excuses have simply become lazy due to the ease of internal trading, so they just can't be bothered. With that attitude they'll never be bigger companies like Philips.
.

 

[oyster]

Precisely, knowing I'd be challenged I was ready with this form of answer. A good margin taken on a cheap but good item still leaves it a cheap but good item. If my blender had been £24.99 instead of £19.99, it would still have been very attractive against the other barmy prices I gave, so I'd still have bought it.

The truth is that these smaller EU companies raising so many objections and excuses have simply become lazy due to the ease of internal trading, so they just can't be bothered. With that attitude they'll never be bigger companies like Philips.
.

A one-person outfit simply cannot manage. In her area, there are specific prices that dominate.

Remember penny chews? Try selling a 1 1/2 d chew into that market!

Incrementing price is not always feasible. Hence while Etsy can enable sales, the cost makes dealing through them much less attractive without a realistic chance to recoup that charge.

 

[oldgroaner]

Now it's getting silly

 

[flecc]

A one-person outfit simply cannot manage. In her area, there are specific prices that dominate.

Remember penny chews? Try selling a 1 1/2 d chew into that market!

Incrementing price is not always feasible. Hence while Etsy can enable sales, the cost makes dealing through them much less attractive without a realistic chance to recoup that charge.

That's the sort of argument I take exception to, I'm not speaking of penny items. I've given an entirely valid working example with 25% added, showing that incremental pricing is not only possible but practical, given the immense range of product pricing in consumer goods.

Remember my opening example, £59.99 to £799 for an item which does exactly the same thing that my £19.99 item does. Whether £19.99 or £24.99 or £29.99, I'd still have bought it, since it would still have been a bargain in that market.

In the wide ranging consumer market of course one can easily recoup the costs of using an agent, or the costs of doing it oneself if the volumes are larger.
.

 

[Zlatan]

Solar home charging will work for somein UK, specifically those who don't actually need a car in first place. How many would go to expense of building home charging system, then buy an expensive EV to save money on doing 120 miles per week. Putting that in perspective, my Jag, which you could currently buy for £10k or so averages 56mpg.. So at most 3 gallons (£18 at most, per week).. Saying something would/could work on practical issues is different to saying its economically worth while. A £12k investment in home solar system, and a £25k (minimum) on say an MG4 is not the way to go if you are only doing 120 miles a week.
For EV to make sense you must be doing the mileage in first place. If you aren't, stick to a cheap to run ICE.
My XF Jag, £30 a year to tax, 56 mpg and a nice place to be. Forget electric to save cash.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Now it's getting silly

Shades of tom waits' song "a chocolate jesus" ("its gotta be a chocolate jesus"). I'd have one if Ronald did it in cappuccino flavour with chocolate sprinkles

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Solar home charging will work for somein UK, specifically those who don't actually need a car in first place. How many would go to expense of building home charging system, then buy an expensive EV to save money on doing 120 miles per week. Putting that in perspective, my Jag, which you could currently buy for £10k or so averages 56mpg.. So at most 3 gallons (£18 at most, per week).. Saying something would/could work on practical issues is different to saying its economically worth while. A £12k investment in home solar system, and a £25k (minimum) on say an MG4 is not the way to go if you are only doing 120 miles a week.
For EV to make sense you must be doing the mileage in first place. If you aren't, stick to a cheap to run ICE.
My XF Jag, £30 a year to tax, 56 mpg and a nice place to be. Forget electric to save cash.

In the uk it's more difficult: lack of sunlight and space. Not so in say italy. Circa 100k buys a pretty farm near a beach in calabria. Maybe 6000 square m. Ample space for a much bigger solar system (perhaps 10kwh) with twice the output anyway (8 hours sunlight a day). Then (say 60 kwh a day) would hypothetically be ample for driving several hundred miles a day and sustaining a house. Not that I'd want to do this in retirement (therefore old leaf instead of expensive mg4). And your calculations are, reasonably but nonetheless, based on current prices (it would be nice never to have to worry about energy again)

 

[oyster]

OK - a mo

That's the sort of argument I take exception to, I'm not speaking of penny items. I've given an entirely valid working example with 25% added, showing that incremental pricing is not only possible but practical, given the immense range of product pricing in consumer goods.

Remember my opening example, £59.99 to £799 for an item which does exactly the same thing that my £19.99 item does. Whether £19.99 or £24.99 or £29.99, I'd still have bought it, since it would still have been a bargain in that market.

In the wide ranging consumer market of course one can easily recoup the costs of using an agent, or the costs of doing it oneself if the volumes are larger.
.

OK - a more similar price level. Go into apps for mobile phones. There are distinct price bands. £1.99, £4.99, etc. People set a price they are willing to pay and choose from what is available. They mostly won't go from £4.99 to £5.99 (or about £6.25) for a similar app even if it is in some way a bit better.

 

[Danidl]

Now it's getting silly

..does it come with fries?.

 

[oyster]

Now it's getting silly

It is.

OUT OF RESPECT McDonald’s to close all restaurants on Monday for the Queen’s funeral

 

[Danidl]

Precisely, knowing I'd be challenged I was ready with this form of answer. A good margin taken on a cheap but good item still leaves it a cheap but good item. If my blender had been £24.99 instead of £19.99, it would still have been very attractive against the other barmy prices I gave, so I'd still have bought it.

The truth is that these smaller EU companies raising so many objections and excuses have simply become lazy due to the ease of internal trading, so they just can't be bothered. With that attitude they'll never be bigger companies like Philips.
.

Not lazy ... Its just that a market of 60 million is not terribly attractive when the market of 400 million is sitting there, and there is no currency transfer problems and cheap and easy postage systems. A few of the big boys have done a good job of sorting these things out ,but the smaller companies cannot. For instance Nespresso runs a magnificent operation with about 3 day delivery to Ireland from UK. Amazon UK has sorted out the VAT duty conundrum as well, so delays are minimal But it is now cheaper and as quick for me to purchase from Amazon DE or Amazon FR than worry about the delays from Amazon UK.

 

[flecc]

OK - a mo

OK - a more similar price level. Go into apps for mobile phones. There are distinct price bands. £1.99, £4.99, etc. People set a price they are willing to pay and choose from what is available. They mostly won't go from £4.99 to £5.99 (or about £6.25) for a similar app even if it is in some way a bit better.

Still tiny and not at all relevant, since I was clearly speaking of consumer items with huge price ranges giving plenty of room for price adjustments while remaining competitive.

Like decent pedelecs from £1000 to £5000 or the sky's the limit !!!
.

 

[guerney]

Very poorly designed platform, which bowed in the middle

...which oscillated and led to to the coffin shuffling over to one side. British engineering at it's best.

 

[oldgroaner]

Very poorly designed platform, which bowed in the middle

...which oscillated and led to to the coffin shuffling over to one side. British engineering at it's best.

Imagine if the coffin had fallen off!

 

[guerney]

Imagine if the coffin had fallen off!

Thank heavens for Mentholyptus

 

[wheeler]

Imagine if the coffin had fallen off!

That comment is most disrespectful to a wonderful lady who served us well for 70 years, all she asked in return was to be the wealthiest woman in the world.

 

[flecc]

This is a new one, attend a funeral to get one's weekly shop: