Brexit, for once some facts.

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland

Probably played Call of Duty a few times and didn't realised there is no "Respawn option" in real life. :)

TTFN
John.
We would call him a gormless eejit. He and the other Real soldiers in that room were lucky they were not shot as saboteurs. Now Is this the same Newspaper which wanted a 15 year old girl Ms Begum to to hung drawn and quartered?...then a child 1/3 his age?.
 

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland
Didn't realise they had developed pumps yet that could initialise on continuous running power.
Checked our recently bought Hisense fridge freezer and it demands upto 13 amps start up.. (for fridge, freezer is 5)
Electricians being King's of belt, braces and a spare means of holding your trousers up think you, ll find even the most daring of them would suggest 3000w as a minimum for fridge freezers.
I, m sorry Danidl but running any domestic fridge on a 1000w inverter is asking for trouble. Yep, there may be a few about that can but it's the exception proving the rule.
View attachment 46064

This is from current guide.Pardon the pun.
I certainly wouldn't anyway and actually doubt you would. Have a look back of your fridge,or better still try it with a generator.
We had a fairly modern fridge on last barge and it would stall our 2kw geny. OK on hook up or when engine was running..
Can't really see point of under engineering it either. A 3kw inverter would definetly work, a 2kw might, a 1kw would for a week or 2.
Zlatan, I choose to return from the hospital before answering this posting. I like to get my facts straight. The domestic fridge I use a Hotpoint RLS 150 has a motor rated at 150 watts . And yes it has a nice thick cable with a 13amp fuse in the plugtop The reason for this is not load but convience. The initial starting load of an induction motor is at peak 6 times running load. In many cases of air-conditioning or in this case compression pumps there is a centrifugal clutch ..not unlike the starting motor of a car, so the motor has time to spin up before the compressor rotor load is applied..that stops the stalling. Likewise the expansion valve is not energised to allow compression,
Other than it is currently ill-advised for me to climb into the attic and get my meters ,I would experimentally confirm that the peak consumption is about 750 watts
Now if one was using the older model Electrolux , based on the thermal adsorption cycle ,as usually fitted in caravans and boats, the 150 watts would be both peak and average.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zlatan

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
Zlatan, I choose to return from the hospital before answering this posting. I like to get my facts straight. The domestic fridge I use a Hotpoint RLS 150 has a motor rated at 150 watts . And yes it has a nice thick cable with a 13amp fuse in the plugtop The reason for this is not load but convience. The initial starting load of an induction motor is at peak 6 times running load. In many cases of air-conditioning or in this case compression pumps there is a centrifugal clutch ..not unlike the starting motor of a car, so the motor has time to spin up before the compressor rotor load is applied..that stops the stalling. Likewise the expansion valve is not energised to allow compression,
Other than it is currently ill-advised for me to climb into the attic and get my meters ,I would experimentally confirm that the peak consumption is about 750 watts
Now if one was using the older model Electrolux , based on the thermal adsorption cycle ,as usually fitted in caravans and boats, the 150 watts would be both peak and average.
Exceptions and rules Danidl. I, ll stick to needing a 3kw inverter for a big fridge. But get your point.
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
Exceptions and rules Danidl. I, ll stick to needing a 3kw inverter for a big fridge. But get your point.
How big is big?

A Bosch 319 litre refrigerator, which isn't exactly small, currently available is rated at just 90 watts. Which needs one huge great multiplication to get to a single kw - let alone 3.
 

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
How big is big?

A Bosch 319 litre refrigerator, which isn't exactly small, currently available is rated at just 90 watts. Which needs one huge great multiplication to get to a single kw - let alone 3.
It depends what they mean by 90w. That could easily be average current drawn over a 24 hr period with door closed etc etc. Important numbers are current draw whilst running (ie actually working) and the current draw whilst starting up. (which depending on type of fridge, pump etc can be upto 6x continuous draw)
But,as I, ve said to Danidl, go ahead buy a 1000w inverter to run your fridge. We scrapped plenty of inverters years ago going through this procedure. If you want to run domestic fridge on an inverter get a 3kw one, or if you like buy 3 or more 1000w ones which should do job but won't last a month. Been there, got the tee shirt.
I, ve only had 35 plus years fitting boats out.
Danidl and yourself might have all the theory but when you are really dependent on something working you fit what you know works. I know 3kw inverters work fridges, any of them. I know 1000w ones don't. Fact. But, makes no difference to me. Go ahead, waste money on cheap 1000 inverters because you think they should work. Just. But they don't,not for long anyway.

This actually recommends 10x continuous (running) power for inverter sizing.?!??

Or listen to Danidl who has yet to fit out a yacht, barge or van with a working system. I, ve done at least 50 and lived in one I, d built for 5 years.
But its nice to make your own mistakes.
 
Last edited:

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,153
30,569
It depends what they mean by 90w. That could easily be average current drawn over a 24 hr period with door closed etc etc. Important numbers are current draw whilst running (ie actually working) and the current draw whilst starting up. (which depending on type of fridge, pump etc can be upto 6x continuous draw)
My Lec L5517 under counter larder fridge installation data states a current draw of 70 watts, so even two of them would be within a 1000 watt inverter at 6 times startup current draw.

One like mine only draws 420 watts at its 6 times startup current.

These current A+ fridges are really miserly with the current they need, so one like mine would easily run permanently on a 1 kW inverter drawing only 42% of the rating at startup and 7% current draw when running.
.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: oyster

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
My Lec L5517 under counter larder fridge installation data states a current draw of 70 watts, so even two of them would be within a 1000 watt inverter at 6 times startup current draw.

One like mine only draws 420 watts at its 6 times startup current.

These current A+ fridges are really miserly with the current they need, so one like mine would easily run permanently on a 1 kW inverter drawing only 42% of the rating at startup and 7% current draw when running.
.
The more recent refrigerators have a massively reduced start up current compared with older models. I'd definitely look at ratings and not just assume, but I think this is widespread.

With many old models, you could really hear and feel a thump when the motor started. And the sheer weight of the motors was much greater. Recent ones you might hear, but only just.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,153
30,569
With many old models, you could really hear and feel a thump when the motor started. And the sheer weight of the motors was much greater. Recent ones you might hear, but only just.
Indeed, I remember the old two star one I owned almost 60 years ago, when it started it would shake the entire fridge with a shudder. I cannot hear any sound when the present one starts up, it's effectively silent all the time.

Quality Chinese engineering from English company LEC. ;)
.
 
  • :D
Reactions: oyster

jonathan.agnew

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 27, 2018
2,400
3,381
The more recent refrigerators have a massively reduced start up current compared with older models. I'd definitely look at ratings and not just assume, but I think this is widespread.

With many old models, you could really hear and feel a thump when the motor started. And the sheer weight of the motors was much greater. Recent ones you might hear, but only just.
Can trump that, used to rent a house in maputo where the fridge compressor kicking in temporarily dimmed the lights (that were visibly cycling anyway). Curiously, I miss that.
 

soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
16,860
6,487


there tanks are made of Lego pmsl
 

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
11,313
3,215
A regular occurrence, they wait until 81 working machines have been installed before acting!

Why not act the first time they find such things are being installed?

Looks very much like a reaction to the Ukraine war - even if it was already on the cards.

All UK crypto-currency cash machines (ATMs) are operating illegally and must be shut down, the Financial Conduct Authority has announced.
Crypto-ATMs look like regular cash machines and let people buy crypto-currency, such as Bitcoin, using their bank cards.
But no company offering crypto-currency services in the UK has a licence to operate a crypto-ATM.
The FCA said all such machines must be shut down or it will take action.
There goes my pimping and drug money hole in the wall!
 
  • :D
Reactions: oyster

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
11,313
3,215
Yes, and so it becomes an affluent hobby. When the government could massively expand the charging infrastructure with subsidies and use taxes to promote imports of cheaper ev's (and we'd end up less dependent on energy import if we can work out how to store renewable energy)
I like the idea of mile wide flywheels for renewables energy storage:


 
Last edited:

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
11,313
3,215
Not really connected but... I had a couple of hours on an electric trials bike last week. Absolutely incredible, torque insane but control sublime. Had I still been competing I, d have one... Its almost cheating... But no gearbox but it does have a clutch (and I believe a flywheel)
For those standing jumps top trials riders can do (not me for sure)....you pull clutch, wind motor up to required rpm and drop clutch... Away it jumps. (I didn't try it, didn't use clutch at all, but chap at centre demonstrated) (In Spain)
Which electric trials bike was that? Sounds like a lot of fun, but I doubt my knees could take the strain.
 

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
11,313
3,215
Registered with help a refugee this morning. Not much we can do but hope it can help. Won't be keeping cash, will go to displaced family.
It's getting 10000 new registrations per hour.
How wonderful! Can I have your contact details formy Ukranian bride to be? ;)

Needless to say, it'll be hard graft Zlatan, with many ongoing and complex issues to deal with for years.
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
Surprised it took this long for someone to say this:

Germany advises citizens to uninstall Kaspersky antivirus
Nation's cybersecurity agency has doubts about Russian firm's reliability

Gareth Corfield Tue 15 Mar 2022 // 16:00 UTC

Germany's BSI federal cybersecurity agency has warned the country's citizens not to install Russian-owned Kaspersky antivirus, saying it has "doubts about the reliability of the manufacturer."
Russia-based Kaspersky has long been a target of suspicious rumors in the West over its ownership and allegiance to Russia's rulers.
 
  • :D
  • Agree
Reactions: POLLY and guerney

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
I like the idea of mile wide flywheels for renewables energy storage:


A suitable size of flywheel could be used to make a refrigerator which has virtually no excess start-up current... :)
 
  • Like
  • Agree
Reactions: flecc and guerney

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
11,313
3,215
Surprised it took this long for someone to say this:

Germany advises citizens to uninstall Kaspersky antivirus
Nation's cybersecurity agency has doubts about Russian firm's reliability

Gareth Corfield Tue 15 Mar 2022 // 16:00 UTC

Germany's BSI federal cybersecurity agency has warned the country's citizens not to install Russian-owned Kaspersky antivirus, saying it has "doubts about the reliability of the manufacturer."
Russia-based Kaspersky has long been a target of suspicious rumors in the West over its ownership and allegiance to Russia's rulers.
It's a bit late! They know about every bit of software on those computers and their version numbers, ip address etc. and could automatically mass hack using known vulnerabilities, to launch other attacks. All antivirus is dodgy, it's shocking how much information one gives away for free. On one of my PCs, I use AVG because it uses very little by way of resources and is brilliant at detecting viruses, but absolutely useless at removing infections, which is what Avira is for (also Malwarebytes). I've yet to find a decent antivirus program for PC with a small resource footprint, capable of both virus detection and competent removal. No doubt they're selling our data as "The new oil", like everyone else.
 
  • Like
Reactions: oyster

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
It's a bit late! They know about every bit of software on those computers and their version numbers, ip address etc. and could automatically hack using known vulnerabilities. All antivirus is dodgy, it's shocking how much information one gives away for free. One one of my PCs, I use AVG because it uses very little by way of resources and is brilliant at detecting viruses, but absolutely useless at removing infections, which is what Avira is for (also Malwarebytes). I've yet to find a decent antivirus program for PC with a small resource footprint, capable of both virus detection and competent removal. No doubt they're selling our data as "The new oil", like everyone else.
My experience of AVG (owned by Avast) is much the same as most other products. They are pigs to remove should you want to. And they can slug performance. And they tend to do things like plague you with pop-ups.

Afraid I just let the built-in Defender do its stuff. You might be surprised how many machines are actually relying on that simply because a) no-one ever installed an AV product; b) the AV product has stopped working and Defender has stepped into the void.

But I mostly use MacOS these days...
 
  • Agree
Reactions: flecc

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,153
30,569
I see Camelot has lost the National Lottery contract. And a Czech company with claimed links to Russia has won it.
Anyone would be better than Camelot who have completely wrecked the National Lottery, turning it into a giant fiddle defrauding the people. They aren't alone in this of course, the government being their partner in the crime.
.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: oyster

Advertisers