Brexit, for once some facts.

guerney

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guerney

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jonathan.agnew

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Dec 27, 2018
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Nothing like that, it was a very smart move to lay claim to the two oblasts of Donbass. He'd already successfully secured the Crimea to Russia by democratic means to ensure the Russian southern fleet's security. Now he needs to ensure it further by protecting the Crimea from Ukraine taking it back by force with western military assistance.

At present he can only protect the Crimea from that happening via a vulnerable very long road and rail bridge he built over the entrance to the Azov Sea. By taking over political control of the Donbass region he tempts the Ukraine to increase its fight on the Donbass front line and start killing Russian troops. That would give the excuse for a full blown Russian assault, going beyond the Donbass southern border. Claiming that land gain by right of war then would link Russia directly to the Crimea around the west of the Azov Sea in addition to the eastern bridge. Job done.

This would also weaken the Ukraine through the loss of its Azov Sea ports, those already weakened by the Russians only permitting 16,000 tonne ships through the Azov Sea entrance, far too small to be economic in this container age:

View attachment 45818

I can see where you're coming from strategically. Unfortunately, despite being a subject in one of the most corrupt self serving destructive little kingdoms in the history of the planet, I'm not quite ready to embrace the authoritarianism and neo-facism of Russia.
 

oyster

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Who knows without trying it out?

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Zlatan

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I can see where you're coming from strategically. Unfortunately, despite being a subject in one of the most corrupt self serving destructive little kingdoms in the history of the planet, I'm not quite ready to embrace the authoritarianism and neo-facism of Russia.
I, ve always found Russians odd to deal with. At first they seem distant, offhand and apparently almost aggressive, even in very passive non confrontational situations. But when things do turn bad, I always found them unbelievably helpful.
I think, what we see as aggressive is often just how they speak to each other. During my time in Vietnam I had quite a bad accident and at time was working with Russians. The very blokes I thought distant, agrresive were actually unbelievable in their attempts to help. Taught me a good lesson. Don't judge on first impressions. We are perhaps judging cultural, historical and situational differences. Certainly helped me out a tight spot. Following week, they were back to none smiling, quiet grunts for greetings.???
They were genuinely concerned for my safety and really made efforts to help. I was really impressed and grateful.
 

oyster

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I, ve not had a lot of interaction or with Russians but did experience their rather

I, ve always found Russians odd to deal with. At first they seem distant, offhand and apparently almost aggressive, even in very passive non confrontational situations. But when things do turn bad, I always found them unbelievably helpful.
I think, what we see as aggressive is often just how they speak to each other. During my time in Vietnam I had quite a bad accident and at time was working with Russians. The very blokes I thought distant, agrresive were actually unbelievable in their attempts to help. Taught me a good lesson. Don't judge on first impressions. We are perhaps judging cultural, historical and situational differences. Certainly helped me out a tight spot. Following week, they were back to none smiling, quiet grunts for greetings.???
My experience of Russians was back in the early 1960s - and as a young child.

The British were, well, British. OK, but not so approachable.
The Americans were brash and loud.
The French seemed to be reticent.
The Russians were so friendly and warm.

Would I trust them - not an inch! But that is what we all learn - trust is a hard-won attribute.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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I'm not quite ready to embrace the authoritarianism and neo-facism of Russia.
Me too, but as ever it's horses for courses. Their last 1000 years of history has left it only possible to rule Russia through authoritarian strength, helped by their Orthodox faith. For them it was a choice, the laxity of the America's choice, the drunken Yeltsin; or the forceful Putin who rapidly effectively sorted out the chaos Yeltsin left and gave the Russians back some pride.

Couldn't work here, we have no faith and Covid has shown that authoritarianism doesnt work here, least of all in London.

However, given the choice between Boris Johnson and Vladimir Putin as UK PM, I would have to have a long hard think before deciding. We do after all have many problems that need to be decisively sorted.
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jonathan.agnew

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Dec 27, 2018
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Me too, but as ever it's horses for courses. Their last 1000 years of history has left it only possible to rule Russia through authoritarian strength, helped by their Orthodox faith. For them it was a choice, the laxity of the America's choice, the drunken Yeltsin; or the forceful Putin who rapidly effectively sorted out the chaos Yeltsin left and gave the Russians back some pride.

Couldn't work here, we have no faith and Covid has shown that authoritarianism doesnt work here, least of all in London.

However, given the choice between Boris Johnson and Vladimir Putin as UK PM, I would have to have a long hard think before deciding. We do after all have many problems that need to be decisively sorted.
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When you put it that way, I feel a sudden rush of affection for the piglet. I mean, he is a humiliating very public disgrace that's hastening our rejoining of the EU and doing a better job of scuppering brexit than any labour party in any of the millions of parralel universes. And he has become a foul flacid figurehead for all things Tory. And we can get rid of him. And I suspect his personal wealth is a minute fraction of putin's. Im almost ready to start a fan club. An effective autocrat delivering brexit successfully would mean having to emigrate again, which can become a royal PITA.
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Something strange going on.

Recently the hill outside has been quite clear of cars with most being back at work. However, since Monday it's been packed as it was when everyone was off work at home, and today on a trip to the supermarket and back there's long queues of local traffic of the sort that existed back then.

It's almost as if everyone who heard of Boris Johnson's statement about Covid legal measures ending has acted as if the opposite applied.
.
 

Woosh

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A few weeks ago, we went to Moscow to threaten the Russians with dire consequences if they put as much as a toecap into Ukraine's territory.
Now they did it. So what do we do? We ban 3 individuals: Gennady Timchenko and Boris and Igor Rotenberg to come here.
it's toothless, really.
 

wheeler

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Jun 4, 2016
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A few weeks ago, we went to Moscow to threaten the Russians with dire consequences if they put as much as a toecap into Ukraine's territory.
Now they did it. So what do we do? We ban 3 individuals: Gennady Timchenko and Boris and Igor Rotenberg to come here.
it's toothless, really.
The Tories are baw deep in Russian money, this is just a tip off to their Russian pals to get their money out before more serious sanctions are applied.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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A few weeks ago, we went to Moscow to threaten the Russians with dire consequences if they put as much as a toecap into Ukraine's territory.
Now they did it. So what do we do? We ban 3 individuals: Gennady Timchenko and Boris and Igor Rotenberg to come here.
it's toothless, really.
Just as I posted yesterday that this would happen.

It really doesn't matter what we do anyway. The long history of Russian people's suffering and their harsh environment has made them into a people who not only thrive upon hardship, they positively expect and enjoy it.

Temperature down at minus 50 degrees C? They take their clothes off, smash the ice and jump into the sea for a swim.

Harvest fails and they only have cabbage and beetroot? They make a delicious bowl of borscht from those unpromising ingredients.

As Hitler discovered, you can hurt the Russians but you can never knock them down and out.
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oyster

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I quote: As early as the 9th century, Shchi has been a staple on the Russian table. Russians have a proverb that states “Щи да каша – пища наша.” (Shchi da kasha – pishcha nasha “Shchi and kasha are our staples”).

I learned that saying in about 1962.
 

Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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Just as I posted yesterday that this would happen.

It really doesn't matter what we do anyway. The long history of Russian people's suffering and their harsh environment has made them into a people who not only thrive upon hardship, they positively expect and enjoy it.

Temperature down at minus 50 degrees C? They take their clothes off, smash the ice and jump into the sea for a swim.

Harvest fails and they only have cabbage and beetroot? They make a delicious bowl of borscht from those unpromising ingredients.

As Hitler discovered, you can hurt the Russians but you can never knock them down and out.
.
And punishing them could have exactly opposite effect to that required. Any hardships that are endured will only be used as arguments for Putin to justify any actions he takes, either against Ukraine or the West in general.
He has used NATO and Russian supporters (currently already in Ukraine) as justification to take actions he has. Fact is NATO was never going to accept or even encourage Ukraine into the fold, but like wise they were never going to say the could never join.(as a prerequisite any countries joining NATO must have control of their own borders??) I, d have thought that rules half of Europe out but never the less it does rule Ukraine out.
 

oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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Soundwave will be miffed, he'll have to have sugar or sweeteners in his tea instead.

Here's a tweet he will like

"Queen vows to carry on working at the age of 95, after receiving threatening letter from the Department for Work and Pensions."
:D
 

oyster

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Has Putin really got miles of video of Trump?

Trump praises ‘genius’ Putin for moving troops to eastern Ukraine
Former president says Russian leader made ‘very savvy’ decision to recognise two territories of eastern Ukraine as independent
 
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soundwave

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May 23, 2015
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https://flic.kr/p/2eod4Re
i got real threating letters ;)


all i did was turn up and make them look like dick heads with foi requests and broadcasting my findings in front of them for all to hear and that they was full of $hit and just telling out right lies.:p

if you dont fight for your rights you wont have any esp in the dwp and there conditionality gas lighting nudge regime to grind everyone down.

and only poofs drink tea i dont even like milk makes me puke lol fkn cow pi$$ ;)
 

Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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https://flic.kr/p/2eod4Re
i got real threating letters ;)


all i did was turn up and make them look like dick heads with foi requests and broadcasting my findings in front of them for all to hear and that they was full of $hit and just telling out right lies.:p

if you dont fight for your rights you wont have any esp in the dwp and there conditionality gas lighting nudge regime to grind everyone down.

and only poofs drink tea i dont even like milk makes me puke lol fkn cow pi$$ ;)
21st November 2013??? Now that is snail mail.
 

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