Brexit, for once some facts.

[guerney]

Sorry this is a paywall'd item - but the frst I found reporting what I thought and suggested is the case:

Over-50s can now book a Covid booster without NHS invitation

Sajid Javid announces change after complaints that eligible people are being turned away from clinics


By Sarah Knapton, Science Editor and Lizzie Roberts, Health Reporter 20 October 2021 • 8:17pm

Over-50s can now book a Covid booster without NHS invitation

Sajid Javid announces change after complaints that eligible people are being turned away from clinics

www.telegraph.co.uk

There you go Flecc! Grab full face scuba gear (or double KN95, FFP2 or better masks + inverted fishbowl on your head) and get jabbed!

 

[guerney]

Once one has been infected, the natural protection is at least equal to the vaccines at whatever one's age is.

I haven't seen any mention of that being true - it's an unknown and highly variable AFAIK.

 

[oyster]

Yesterday afternoon, I drove up the high street and wondered at a turn-off being closed but that happens quite often for road or building maintenance, etc. It is very narrow so no option to close one lane or anything like that.

The real reason has been something much worse and sadder.

Three paddleboarders die after incident on river in Haverfordwest

Three paddleboarders die after incident on river in Haverfordwest

Police say man and two women got into difficulties on River Cleddau in south-west Wales

www.theguardian.com

 

[flecc]

I haven't seen any mention of that being true - it's an unknown and highly variable AFAIK.

It is true, for the Delta variant at least, the latest analysis suggests they are roughly equivalent. A link was posted in here a few days ago by someone of Professor Spiegelhalter's statement that being infected is equal to having the vaccines. He is after all the government's chief statistician.

Perhaps whoever posted that particular link will repeat it.

Information link 1

Information link 2
.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

I had my Pfizer booster jab earlier this week. Unlike the AZ, the Pfizer gave a much stronger reaction. A small lump at the injection site and a sore arm for 4 days. Substitute the sore arm for lungs, it's not difficult to imagine what effect a real covid infection has on a pensioner. The professor may be right on statistics if he talks about schoolchildren but leaving to nature is not a realistic proposition for pensioners.

Its complex. But one problem is that immune response is variable. Liu et al (cdc) found in september 36% of people who contracted delta did not develop significant antibodies

 

[oyster]

Its complex. But one problem is that immune response is variable. Liu et al (cdc) found in september 36% of people who contracted delta did not develop significant antibodies

I know I developed an antibody response to my AZ vaccines. But no evidence of a response to infection. I had very mild issues with the vaccination.

The one that has surprised me is continuing mild discomfort and slight weeping near the injection sites. The first twinge was about two weeks after the second injection. Then nothing for months. Now, something like once a week, I get a mild twinge and, if I feel the area, it is as if there were a tiny scab. Scratch and it weeps.

This is of zero significance in itself, simply unexpected.

If/when I get a booster, I'll get it done on my right arm. At least that will separate them, so I'll be able to tell one from t'other.

 

[guerney]

The one that has surprised me is continuing mild discomfort and slight weeping near the injection sites. The first twinge was about two weeks after the second injection. Then nothing for months. Now, something like once a week, I get a mild twinge and, if I feel the area, it is as if there were a tiny scab. Scratch and it weeps.

I've read that's a common effect - you can get something from your local drug dealer, I mean pharmasadist. The immune system balls up things sometimes, into literal balls, and it can become a problem - it's contained something it doesn't like. You can probably allieviate it using a topical steroid cream or somesuch, or even ibuprofen gel?

 

[guerney]

This is the line being sold to us, but they are all antigen effects.

Are you calling vaccines "Antigens" again? The pedelecer who said he/she is a Doctor (nigelbb) dealt with that on the Covid thread.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

I know I developed an antibody response to my AZ vaccines. But no evidence of a response to infection. I had very mild issues with the vaccination.

The one that has surprised me is continuing mild discomfort and slight weeping near the injection sites. The first twinge was about two weeks after the second injection. Then nothing for months. Now, something like once a week, I get a mild twinge and, if I feel the area, it is as if there were a tiny scab. Scratch and it weeps.

This is of zero significance in itself, simply unexpected.

If/when I get a booster, I'll get it done on my right arm. At least that will separate them, so I'll be able to tell one from t'other.

Theres a vast body of contradictory research viz natural immunity vs vaccination. The less trusting part of my personality finds it interesting that those that support herd immunity are, on my digital news feeds, suddenly becoming flavour of the month. A policy of herd immunity doesnt cost the political donors anything and keep money rolling in.

 

[Danidl]

Theres a vast body of contradictory research viz natural immunity vs vaccination. The less trusting part of my personality finds it interesting that those that support herd immunity are, on my digital news feeds, suddenly becoming flavour of the month. A policy of herd immunity doesnt cost the political donors anything and keep money rolling in.

My take on this is that both a real infection and a vaccine induced mini infection create identical antibody loads. , But with the difference being that the payload of damage doesn't usually happen with the vaccine. Moreover the vaccine is a calibrated dose, whereas the real infection could be milder or much heavier.

 

[flecc]

Are you calling vaccines "Antigens" again? The pedelecer who purports to be a Doctor (nigelbb) dealt with that on the Covid thread.

No I'm not, since what we have are not vaccines in the strictest sense:

The purpose of a vaccine is to prevent one from contracting the disease in question.

Our Covid "vaccines" completely fail to do that. Not only do they allow one to contract Covid, one can contract it more than once despite being vaccinated and boosted.

What our vaccines do achieve is to greatly lessen the ill effects once one catches Covid. In other words they are effective medicines in that respect. Such medicines are named antigens since they use the antibodies that fail to prevent infection to usefully achieve alleviation instead.

Nigelbb didn't deal with this, disconcerted by my post he fluffed around the issue by bluffing, not fooling me at least.

My post of March 8th dealt very accurately with this issue. Just look at all the names agreeing, liking etc.
.

 

[Zlatan]

Just had my booster. Comirnaty... Renamed Pfizer... Walked to centre... Part of my daily 86 miles to reduce my blood pressure as suggested by Dr Guerney... Or was it Mr Hyde... Or could have been another Pearl from Oyster...
Anyway feck that it's raining.
Arm doesn't ache...

 

[guerney]

No I'm not, since what we have are not vaccines in the strictest sense:

The purpose of a vaccine is to prevent one from contracting the disease in question.

Our Covid "vaccines" completely fail to do that. Not only do they allow one to contract Covid, one can contract it more than once despite being vaccinated and boosted.

What our vaccines do achieve is to greatly lessen the ill effects once one catches Covid. In other words they are effective medicines in that respect. Such medicines are named antigens since they use the antibodies that fail to prevent infection to usefully achieve alleviation instead.

Nigelbb didn't deal with this, disconcerted by my post he fluffed around the issue by bluffing, not fooling me at least.

My post of March 8th dealt very accurately with this issue. Just look at all the names agreeing, liking etc.
.

Yes but medical science calls antigens antigens and vaccines vaccines.

 

[flecc]

Yes but medical science calls antigens antigens and vaccines vaccines.

Not true, unless of course bluffing is the order of the day.
.

 

[guerney]

Not true, unless of course bluffing is the order of the day.
.

Medical terms are strictly defined, what you choose to call anything is your personal choice and opinion. Use language exactly as you wish.

 

[flecc]

Medical terms are strictly defined, what you choose to call anything is your personal choice and opinion. Use language exactly as you wish.

They are, but those who use them sometimes do not obey the rules as nigelbb showed.

All over this country countless people who have been vaccinated are catching Covid and testing positive. Each one of those is a vaccine failure, so no vaccine effect gained as strictly defined. But they do suffer less from the effects of the disease due to their induced antibodies, so their injections are antigens as strictly defined.

Strict definition of a vaccine:

"A vaccine is a type of medicine that trains the body’s immune system so that it can fight a disease it has not come into contact with before. Vaccines are designed to prevent disease, rather than treat a disease once you have caught it."

All vaccines are antigens as well so if the vaccine's disease prevention function fails, it is left with being solely an antigen.
.

 

[guerney]

They are, but those who use them sometimes do not obey the rules as nigelbb showed.

All over this country countless people who have been vaccinated are catching Covid and testing positive. Each one of those is a vaccine failure, so no vaccine effect gained as strictly defined. But they do suffer less from the effects of the disease due to their induced antibodies, so their injections are antigens as strictly defined.

Strict definition of a vaccine:

"A vaccine is a type of medicine that trains the body’s immune system so that it can fight a disease it has not come into contact with before. Vaccines are designed to prevent disease, rather than treat a disease once you have caught it."

All vaccines are antigens as well so if the vaccine function fails, it is left with being solely an antigen.
.

I'm going to go ride my orange on the elephant to collect pumpkins, hoping I don't bump into yellow.

 

[flecc]

I'm going to go ride my orange on the elephant to collect pumpkins, hoping I don't bump into yellow.

You continue to be silly if you wish. You posted a funny emogee to my post, but scientifically trained Woosh witn vaccines knowledge posted a Like

Strict definition of a vaccine:

"A vaccine is a type of medicine that trains the body’s immune system so that it can fight a disease it has not come into contact with before. Vaccines are designed to prevent disease, rather than treat a disease once you have caught it."

All vaccines are antigens as well so if the vaccine's disease prevention function fails, it is left with being solely an antigen.
.

 

[Woosh]

Strict definition of a vaccine:

"A vaccine is a type of medicine that trains the body’s immune system so that it can fight a disease it has not come into contact with before. Vaccines are designed to prevent disease, rather than treat a disease once you have caught it."

All vaccines are antigens as well so if the vaccine's disease prevention function fails, it is left with being solely an antigen.
.

we expect antigens cause diseases, vaccines don't though.

 

[flecc]

we expect antigens cause diseases, vaccines don't though.

Agreed some antigens do, the definition of an antigen is so wide, but that doesnt alter the strict definition of a vaccine which is more precise.
.