Brexit, for once some facts.

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
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Ireland
Hmmm. Who'd have thought it? Choosing EU over UK.

Intel's €80bn European chip plant investment plan not bound for UK because Brexit
Promise to become 'a science and technology superpower' not cutting much ice with Chipzilla
https://www.theregister.com/2021/10/07/intels_80bn_european_chip_plant/
They really need to start building new plants in stable locations like the EU . Remember that a small disturbance in a Japanese plant has rocked the Digital Audio market. There are minor expansions in the Irish Intel Plant , but not enough to meet demands. My son and I were discussing this today, and what will happen to TSMC in about 2025 , when the Chinese take over. So if the West expect to be building and driving EVs in 2028 , now is the time to invest.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,154
30,570
Just how bad can Tories get, how far can country sink before Labour are victorious? Could this winter really see demise of this lot...
I believe we are going to sink a very long way, regardless of who gets in next or when.

Brexit was as so many of us warned, an extremely stupid move, doomed to bring failure since Britain had already proven to be a failure since circa 1950. Not that staying within the EU was a solution to our troubles, clearly for us it was only marginally better than leaving.

The solution could only have been for this country to radically improve every aspect of its performance whilst still in the EU, to at the very least match Germany. Then, from a position of strength, to work with Germany as an equal partner to either reform the EU to make it more competitive, or leave if unsuccessful in that endeavour.

Thanks to our pathetic politicians that possibility has of course been blown now we've left and with our prospects so poor I can only see continuing decline to very much lower living standards. How fast that will be depends on how long it takes for our idiot politicians to realise that we are not a great power in the world and stop frittering money away in trying to please the USA by simulating with armaments that we are.

If eventually it dawns that is the best course, we'll be able to try to at least prevent further decline, but alone in the world success is unlikely, given the character we have as a country. What will probably happen though is that little by little we'll be reabsorbed into a form of EU membership as we concede more and more in an effort to keep afloat.

Fortunately I won't be around for much of this so I'll be spared the pain of watching all of it happen.
.
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
Wonderful day for the tories. Poor, poor MPs desperately need a pay rise. Councillor is a white genocide-supporter. Energy market shown to be collapsing and misbegotten. Council tax either going to shoot up - or councils fail.

Yet still some people seem to support them!
 
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jonathan.agnew

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 27, 2018
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I read Farage's response to cheap EU labour deserting our shores and listened to BJ's conversation with Marr.
What on earth has happened in our country when 2 imbeciles can talk so utterly ridiculously and not only be part of our governance but one of them the head of it.
They both spoke like utter lunatics and made totally illogical arguments. What has happened..?
When will some statesman rise Phoenix like from the ashes of our contemptible parties and govern our country decently... I don't see any signs of one yet... But for first time ever, after listening to Boris I actually thought Starmer was worth a gamble.. That's how bad BJ has got.
Just how bad can Tories get, how far can country sink before Labour are victorious? Could this winter really see demise of this lot...
I dont think we can blame our leaders. We (not me, but the electorate) voted for brexit and then boris. After buying into farage and a ludicrous national narrative about making Britain great again. We had choices, we created this clusterfuck.
On the plus side, and to try to be positive, crises can be good. Opportunities for change. I'm thinking of either retreating to my very cheap but cheerful property in calabria (have haunting memories of a late summer shower under a rainwater pipe following a swim in the aquamarine ocean there). And, by complete chance, I stumbled an equally cheap but very cheerful salar 40 (old Laurent Giles centre cockpit that will take one around the world on a shoestring). So, leave blighty to learn it's own painful lessons is my advice, and return once the electorate have seen the light.
 
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oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
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West West Wales
I dont think we can blame our leaders. We (not me, but the electorate) voted for brexit and then boris. After buying into farage and a ludicrous national narrative about making Britain great again. We had choices, we created this clusterfuck.
On the plus side, and to try to be positive, crises can be good. Opportunities for change. I'm thinking of either retreating to my very cheap but cheerful property in calabria (have haunting memories of a late summer shower under a rainwater pipe following a swim in the aquamarine ocean there). And, by complete chance, I stumbled an equally cheap but very cheerful salar 40 (old Laurent Giles centre cockpit that will take one around the world on a shoestring). So, leave blighty to learn it's own painful lessons is my advice, and return once the electorate have seen the light.
I think you can blame our leaders. Some for doing a poor job of presenting their cases - and therefore appealing to the electorate legitimately. Others for lying, misleading, and therefore appealing to the electorate illegitimately.

Politicians do have to broaden their appeal sufficiently to get elected. That sometimes, often?, always?, means throwing out some of their policies and watering down others.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,154
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I stumbled an equally cheap but very cheerful salar 40 (old Laurent Giles centre cockpit that will take one around the world on a shoestring). So, leave blighty to learn it's own painful lessons is my advice, and return once the electorate have seen the light.
For those still healthy and young enough, good advice, but for those like myself now too old and no longer fit enough, we're stuck with this mess. Especially galling after fighting hard against this present governing crowd and the idiocy of Brexit.
.
 
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jonathan.agnew

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 27, 2018
2,400
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For those still healthy and young enough, good advice, but for those like myself now too old and no longer fit enough, we're stuck with this mess. Especially galling after fighting hard against this present governing crowd and the idiocy of Brexit.
.
felt similar and then had an epiphany when going sailing on a mates little westerly 21 (about how little - financially and practically - one need to do what one want). But realise I'm also being escapist - whatever I do, the financial consequences of brexit and boris will hit me. And the electorate will no doubt continue as after Thatcher and black Wednesday and blair and brown and Iraq by learning nothing and staggering into increasing cataclysmic self destruction. We seem to solve problems like Kafka said by letting them devour us
 
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Jesus H Christ

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 31, 2020
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I read Farage's response to cheap EU labour deserting our shores and listened to BJ's conversation with Marr.
What on earth has happened in our country when 2 imbeciles can talk so utterly ridiculously and not only be part of our governance but one of them the head of it.
They both spoke like utter lunatics and made totally illogical arguments. What has happened..?
When will some statesman rise Phoenix like from the ashes of our contemptible parties and govern our country decently... I don't see any signs of one yet... But for first time ever, after listening to Boris I actually thought Starmer was worth a gamble.. That's how bad BJ has got.
Just how bad can Tories get, how far can country sink before Labour are victorious? Could this winter really see demise of this lot...
On top of all this, people are faced with an increase in National Insurance, cuts to universal credit payments, increased council tax and soaring energy bills. I’ve pretty missed a few out. This is what Johnson, a man steeped in privilege and his billionaire chancellor has given them.

The only real alternative on offer is a group of millionaire barristers and lawyers pretending to be just like an Amazon delivery driver and feeling the same financial strain.

I think people have simply given up on politics. It’s a vacuum.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,154
30,570
The only real alternative on offer is a group of millionaire barristers and lawyers pretending to be just like an Amazon delivery driver and feeling the same financial strain.

I think people have simply given up on politics. It’s a vacuum.
Even more so today. Sadly one of the rare good ones, James Brokenshire, has just died of lung cancer at the very early age of 53. A very decent unassuming man and good MP for his constituency, he was a very effective Northern Ireland Secretary respected by both sides of the community there in that most difficult of government posts.
.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,154
30,570
The best solution is going after the fit & able bodied long term unemployed. Make a non working life so uncomfortable that fruit picking seems incredibly attractive!
But very often they aren't really unemployed or have no income, just not in a normal job.

Who do you think are committing the over 6 million known crimes a year in the UK? They don't commit themselves, it's a large industry.

Somebody has to locate premises, set up the infrastructure and grow the cannabis and prepare it for sale. Somebody has to smuggle in the heroin and cocaine. And once they are all here, the parallel logistics has to kick in and distribute it all over the country. That network alone must dwarf both Royal Mail and Parcelforce combined.

Then there's that other large industry, shoplifting to order for millions of willing customers eager to buy more cheaply. And for those who find the above too much effort, there's always sitting on their backsides practicing online fraud, by all accounts a nice not-so-little earner.

Crime is probably the UK's largest single industry, possibly employing far more than the total number listed as unemployed. Certainly more than the NHS.

And of course there's the black economy, those off the books working unregistered for cash while often drawing benefits as unemployed.
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Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
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felt similar and then had an epiphany when going sailing on a mates little westerly 21 (about how little - financially and practically - one need to do what one want). But realise I'm also being escapist - whatever I do, the financial consequences of brexit and boris will hit me. And the electorate will no doubt continue as after Thatcher and black Wednesday and blair and brown and Iraq by learning nothing and staggering into increasing cataclysmic self destruction. We seem to solve problems like Kafka said by letting them devour us
You worry too much Jonathon. Just go sailing. Whatever happens you, ll cope and all the angst, complaining and guilt won't make slightest difference.
I look back and think"I, ve done my wack, I, m enjoying myself". I know you, ve done your share, sail off into sunset on your Westerly. Feck em. Just take some windsurf kit with you...
But whilst I, m here...
How on earth does FA think it has the slightest morcel of decency, moral fortitude or integrity in its fight for BLM, Respect, anti racism and equal opportunities when it endorses a deal with the most corrupt, backward thinking, criminal and prejudiced regime in the world. A regime that hunted down, tortured and killed a reporter for speaking against them. A regime that has only recently allowed women to drive (2018) but because its rolling in money... It can buy an 80% share in Newcastle football club. And fans moaned about Ashley, 98 % of them agree with the takeover. It's appalling.
Its like a club taking a stance against organised crime but then selling out to Tony Soprano.
They will probably be banning females attending games, and LGBT... Ohdear, they won't be welcome. Dual standards or what.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,329
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Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
The solution could only have been for this country to radically improve every aspect of its performance whilst still in the EU, to at the very least match Germany. Then, from a position of strength, to work with Germany as an equal partner to either reform the EU to make it more competitive, or leave if unsuccessful in that endeavour.
agreed, but the solution implies moving a lot of capital from our houses (let the house price fall) to invest into more productive industries. Something politicians would hate to do.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,154
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How on earth does FA think it has the slightest morcel of decency, moral fortitude or integrity in its fight for BLM, Respect, anti racism and equal opportunities when it endorses a deal with the most corrupt, backward thinking, criminal and prejudiced regime in the world. A regime that hunted down, tortured and killed a reporter for speaking against them. A regime that has only recently allowed women to drive (2018)
Plus the worst crime of all, Saudi Arabia blocking supplies of humanitarian food to children starving to death, due to their involvement (with the West) in the Yemen civil war. They fear that feeding the children is helping the other side. Who is the other side? Iran, a proxy for the rebels, against Saudi Arabia, a proxy for the western backed government forces. Sunni Muslin versus Shia Muslim once again.

And who set up this appalling mess? The West of course, as usual interfering where they shouldn't be.

.
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
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I believe we are going to sink a very long way, regardless of who gets in next or when.

Brexit was as so many of us warned, an extremely stupid move, doomed to bring failure since Britain had already proven to be a failure since circa 1950. Not that staying within the EU was a solution to our troubles, clearly for us it was only marginally better than leaving.

The solution could only have been for this country to radically improve every aspect of its performance whilst still in the EU, to at the very least match Germany. Then, from a position of strength, to work with Germany as an equal partner to either reform the EU to make it more competitive, or leave if unsuccessful in that endeavour.

Thanks to our pathetic politicians that possibility has of course been blown now we've left and with our prospects so poor I can only see continuing decline to very much lower living standards. How fast that will be depends on how long it takes for our idiot politicians to realise that we are not a great power in the world and stop frittering money away in trying to please the USA by simulating with armaments that we are.

If eventually it dawns that is the best course, we'll be able to try to at least prevent further decline, but alone in the world success is unlikely, given the character we have as a country. What will probably happen though is that little by little we'll be reabsorbed into a form of EU membership as we concede more and more in an effort to keep afloat.

Fortunately I won't be around for much of this so I'll be spared the pain of watching all of it happen.
.
Yes it will be a shame to miss the conclusion of this Whitehall Farce
 
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guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
11,316
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Good article about house prices... Its complicated... Might or might not crash... I wouldn't bet my house on it.... Either way.. I, ll be hanging on to property..
Looking at those charts - house prices don't fall very much or for long, but if this pandemic lasts 20 years (it will, IMHO)... the influence on inflation, interest rates and reduced GDP of all countries would be unprecedented in the modern era... The Great Depression lasted about 10 years, not 20 - it's the most "Comparable" period, when people sold property early and sought "Safe" havens such as gold, so that they could buy much more property later. By "People" I mean wealthy entities.

Buoying the banks substantially without raising taxes (as they usually do), can only ever be a short term fix - (obviously) it isn't a sustainable strategy for decades. It's best to hoard your Krugerrands at home, not in a bank safe...

 
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guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
11,316
3,215
I disagree re not getting anaerobic fitness on ebike.
Look on the body as a machine, a complicated one, but never the less a machine.
Mine is currently capable of producing around 140 watts(guess)... I can use that 140 Watts to jog, cycle, swim or whatever I want... pretty much indefinitely... Trouble is that 140 watt when running, cycling is hardly enough to get up hills, so I make it give 160 going up and on a bike almost nothing going down.
Now our bodies train much better at steady state out puts... Going into short term debt, coughing and spluttering actually is of hardly any benefit at all. Benefits to heart, lungs and muscles are achieved with sustained and probably minor rates over our max steady state out put..
On an ebike you can use your 140 watt out put combined with that of bike to avoid serious short term oxygen debt but sustain a beneficial output for a time long enough to achieve real gains. Going into short term oxygen debt will simply tell the machine... Stop. (especially so when weakened by illness)
It might feel to be beneficial to pant, cough and splutter, and it might help you think you are training but you aren't.
Get on your ebike, set an achievable constant out put, use the econtroller accordingly, ie more help on hills, less so elsewhere and cycle for at least one hour. (a heart rate monitor helps, ie train to a certain constant heart rate..., when not in AF I train to 140)
Jogging when unfit and going into short. term severe O2 debt with soaring heart rate is extremely dangerous and actually is of very little if any benefit.
All this from my heart surgeon..
Train to a raised but sustainable level and enjoy it. Ebike perfect tool.
Because of my recent ebike soldering disaster, I couldn't restrain myself from going out for a jog... ebike is still dead, a work in progress... My home is on a hillside, so I started very slowly heading upwards and within about 20 feet, I became aware of an ache - I could feel a dull aching pain some small region of tightness in my chest. So I stopped. I couldn't feel it when I stopped, only when my body was shaking ie slow jogging. I decided to continue, but kept it very slow. Within 100 yards, I had worked up a bit of a sweat, and experienced a pleasant ringing in the ears - my body loves exercise, and it felt good! After another 40 minutes of slow jogging, I decided I was happy to continue for as far as I could go, because I do believe ebiking - even with my extremely lazy maxed out settings - has strengthened my legs! My thighs were the problem when jogging - hills are all over the place where I live. I haven't actually been out jogging since last November, and the difference is marked! My entire slow jogging session lasted approx 1 hour 20 minutes and I covered 3.54 miles - now that's what I call slow jogging! A good tip is to slow down periodically. Also take a deep breath and sigh, to relax while jogging slowly, every so often (easy to feel stressed). On hills, I kept my steps about 6 to 10 inches wide... my breathing got heavy on hills but I managed. I even managed slow jog the b*stard wall of a hill which leads to my home. There's more nerve activation of muscles with activities like jogging and dancing, which you don't get ebiking - you use more muscles in total while jogging, therefore the watts used are more distributed than when ebiking, which mostly works the legs. If I don't get a heart attack today, I'll go out again in two days time. It's gotta help my thyroid function, ahead of my appointment with the endocriminologist next week. Hope they now have blood test tubes... I've got arthritis in both big toes, my right hip and right shoulder, and not walking or jogging for a year have made all that worse. Movement stops joints seizing up - and ebiking doesn't move those parts nearly as much, in my year long experience. My knees are killing me now and I'm sweating like a pig. Thighs are killing me too, especially the left one.

One great benefit of slow jogging, which I noticed a few weeks after slow jogging twice a week, was added spriteliness and balance. My energy levels were really good back then too, compared to now. Maybe I'll do it again tomorrow...

This guy is slow jogging three times too fast IMHO:

 
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Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
Because of my recent ebike soldering disater, I couldn't restrain myself from going out for a jog... ebike is still dead, a work in proress... My home is on a hillside, so I started very slowly heading upwards and within about 20 feet, I became aware of an ache - I could feel a dull aching pain some small region of tightness in my chest. So I stopped. I couldn't feel it when I stopped, only when my body was shaking ie slow jogging. I decided to continue, but kept it very slow. Within 100 yards, I had worked up a bit of a sweat, and experienced a pleasant ringing in the ears - my body loves exercise, and it felt good! After another 40 minutes of slow jogging, I decided I was happy to continue for as far as I could go, because I do believe ebiking - even with my extremely lazy maxed out settings - has strengthened my legs! My thighs were the problem when jogging - hills are all over the place where I live. I haven't actually been out jogging since last November, and the difference is marked! My entire slow jogging session lasted approx 1 hour 20 minutes and I covered 3.54 miles - now that's what I call slow jogging! A good tip is to slow down periodically. Also take a deep breath and sigh, to relax while jogging slowly, every so often (easy to feel stressed). On hills, I kept my steps about 6 to 10 inches wide... my breathing got heavy on hills but I managed. I even managed slow jog the b*stard wall of a hill which leads to my home. There's more nerve activation of muscles with activities like jogging and dancing, which you don't get ebiking - you use more muscles in total while jogging, therefore the watts used are more ditributed than when ebiking, which mostly works the legs. If I don't get a heart attack today, I'll go out again in two days time. It's gotta help my thyroid function, ahead of my appointment with the endocriminologist next week. Hope they now have blood test tubes... I've got arthritis in both big toes, my right hip and right shoulder, and not walking or jogging for a year have made all that worse. Movement stops joints siezing up - and ebiking doesn't move those parts nearly as much, in my year long experience. My knees are killing me now and I'm sweating like a pig. Thighs are killing me too, especially the left one.

One great benefit of slow jogging, which I noticed a few weeks after slow jogging twice a week, was added spriteliness and balance. My energy levels were really good back then too, compared to now. Maybe I'll do it again tomorrow...

This guy is slow jogging three times too fast IMHO:

Great Post.. Good effort. I suspect any form of exercise is great exercise..
I packed in jogging about 15 years ago, found the repetitive thump thump aggregated my bad knee whereas cycling, with lower impact but still lots of movement actually promoted its lubrication. (physio explained theory)
I agree to a point about whole body being involved in jogging but have noticed since going onto ebike a marked extra usage of shoulders over ordinary mtb. All my cycling is off road and averages around 20 miles for a session... That's a lot of restraining wayward handlebars, absorbing shoks etc..
Main thing for me tho is simple motivation and enjoyment. Jogging would take me around streets of Rothetham.
Emtb (electric mountain bike /pedelec)
took me here yesterday.
IMG_20211008_193840.jpg
IMG_20211008_124237.jpg
I pay less attention to my aching with views like this. When jogging it seems the only thing to think of...
But good luck and good effort.
 

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