Brexit, for once some facts.

[oyster]

“Why haven’t we enough vaccine?”

That question requires somewhat more of an answer than the assertion there is a global shortage.

One of the reasons is insufficient glass suitable for making vials. Another is insufficient fill and finish capacity even were the glass available.

I believe all the glass comes from outside the UK - EU and USA (though there could be other sources).

On 31/12/2020, the UK government claimed:
“We will start a vaccination programme using this vaccine next week, with 530,000 doses available from Monday and tens of millions by April 2021.”

I put it to you that things like vaccine manufacturing should be considered in a similar vein to what the USA call strategic reserves. Maybe we do not need the capacity all the time, but it could be worth subsidising factory builds to ensure that, if needed, they can increase that capacity dramatically.

Similar arguments apply to PPE manufacture.

 

[Danidl]

I sometimes wonder if I, m arguing with a Russian bot trying to undermine countries efforts.
Amazing thing they don't see it as at all damaging. If one person chooses not to have vaccine because of their ramblings and then develops covid???
That's the issue I find offensive. They have had vaccines but could easily put others of doing so. If they truly believed all they said they would (should) decline the help.
It must be a frightening world for them. They, ve just let three government know nothing lackeys inject some unknown substance into their arms.. How weird is that. Hypocritical masochists.

Getting even an ineffective vaccine is much better than none. And all the vaccines are much better than ineffective. So I fully agree, we should all be on message that vaccination works. My constant message is that if the product designer designs something has done the experiments ,I see them as the authority..not people who can be compromised by political patronage

 

[oldgroaner]

I sometimes wonder if I, m arguing with a Russian bot trying to undermine countries efforts.
Amazing thing they don't see it as at all damaging. If one person chooses not to have vaccine because of their ramblings and then develops covid???
That's the issue I find offensive. They have had vaccines but could easily put others of doing so. If they truly believed all they said they would (should) decline the help.
It must be a frightening world for them. They, ve just let three government know nothing lackeys inject some unknown substance into their arms.. How weird is that. Hypocritical masochists.

Get help, each post you make becomes more delusional
Tell me what adult would post this garbage.

"It must be a frightening world for them. They, ve just let three government know nothing lackeys inject some unknown substance into their arms.. How weird is that. Hypocritical "

And this from someone who came on here to drain our swamp of people who are impolite.. and has the humorous idea of referring to me as hypocritical??

Just for the record this world isn't frightening for me, it isn't all that much longer I'll be here to laugh at you

And my injection was by one of my GP's nurses, a very nice young lady
So I didn't have
"They, ve just let three government know nothing lackeys inject some unknown substance into their arms.. How weird is that."
And I suspect Flecc didn't have either..

Go on, have another rant if it makes you feel better

 

[oldgroaner]

That question requires somewhat more of an answer than the assertion there is a global shortage.

One of the reasons is insufficient glass suitable for making vials. Another is insufficient fill and finish capacity even were the glass available.

I believe all the glass comes from outside the UK - EU and USA (though there could be other sources).

On 31/12/2020, the UK government claimed:
“We will start a vaccination programme using this vaccine next week, with 530,000 doses available from Monday and tens of millions by April 2021.”

I put it to you that things like vaccine manufacturing should be considered in a similar vein to what the USA call strategic reserves. Maybe we do not need the capacity all the time, but it could be worth subsidising factory builds to ensure that, if needed, they can increase that capacity dramatically.

Similar arguments apply to PPE manufacture.

To be fair Hancock did make some good decisions in this matter, unlike PPE and test and trace
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-rejected-contracts-and-a-hollywood-movie-how-uk-struck-deal-to-guarantee-vaccine-supply-12204044
On the subject of vials
"
Yet from the very start there was a focus on vaccines. According to the former adviser, the DHSC started work on it in January, before there was even a case of COVID-19 in the UK.

Back then, scientists said it was unlikely a vaccine would be developed within 18 months, let alone a year - and that they would probably be around 50% effective when they arrived. Yet, encouraged by Mr Hancock, the Department for Health pushed ahead, in order to make sure everything was ready for the moment the vaccine arrived.


"
One expert warned that there would almost certainly be a shortage of glass vials. Another said that production would be difficult. A third raised the issue of supply chains.

The normal way of doing things would be to fix these issues once the vaccine was ready. But these weren't normal times - so the government determined to resolve them in advance.

Production lines were worked out. Arrangements were made for vaccine "fill and finish". Suppliers for glass vials were found and contracts were secured."

 

[oldgroaner]

It’s breathtaking.

OG was moaning that we haven’t sufficient vaccine two posts ago. Go back earlier in the day and he was criticising the government for ordering too early and potentially having an over supply.

The man is a ******* lunatic. It’s like trying to detox a Heroin addict, only his fix is bashing anything and everything the U.K. does.

You get more amusing with every post

 

[Nev]

Israel have now released some official results of their vaccination programme, here are some of the numbers.

Only 317 out of 715,425 or 0.04% of people became infected a week after becoming fully vaccinated against the disease. Fully vaccinated in this context means receiving both doses of the Pfizer vaccine. Of the vaccinated people who were infected, 16 had to be treated in hospital, or 0.002% of the initial total.

A domestic healthcare provider (Maccabi Healthcare Services) released some trial data. It showed that out of 163,000 people given both shots of the vaccine, only 31 became infected, compared with 6,500 infections among a control group of unvaccinated people.

Maccabi said the data suggested the vaccine was 92% effective which is very close to the efficacy Pfizer obtained in their own trials.

Of some concern to us here in the UK, the figures showed that 42% of Israel's 834 critically ill patients had already received one shot of the Pfizer vaccine. That figure dropped to 2% after the second jab.

The full story can be found on the link below.
Israel Covid vaccine data shows extremely low rate of infections | World news | The Guardian

 

[flecc]

I think we should sack Jonathon Van Tam, Chris Witty and Patrick Valance then appoint Flecc, OG and Danidl.. Job done.
These three know way more than those government lackeys.
Its pointless making any points on here. Complete waste of time. If at every juncture folk just dismiss folk making one side of argument as lackeys what is the point of discussing anything.

But you aren't discussing, you are just closing your mind as usual to any balance of views on the facts:

Fact 1: Some of the government scientists actually backed the herd immunity idea when supporting the government. That is what justifies me calling them lackeys. And I'm not alone, Woosh has also posted that they conform with their employers.

Fact 2: The vaccine manufacturers have expressed strong disagreement with extending the interval between doses so in view of the well known ability of this disreputable government and particularly the prime minister to adopt expediency before evidence, it's justifiable and in our own interests to discuss that.

Fact 3: These "experts" are statistically wrong in saying that two far more widely spaced jabs gives protection to more people than having the higher risk people given both doses according to tested recommendation. I have some support there too, from Danidl this time, who also doesn't believe this is an advantageous strategy.

Fact 4: Everyone's circumstances vary and some like me are at hardly any risk at all of contracting the Covid-19 virus, despite my being in a highest risk group.

Fact 5: The sub-fact of Fact 4 being it doesn't mean highest risk of catching it, something that misses most people it seems. It only means highest risk of suffering more or dying if I do catch it. Since I have hardly any risk of catching Covid-19, I'm at so close to zero risk of transmitting it to others that it could reasonably be discounted.

Fact 6: This government and their advisors and scientists have made the world's worst mess in dealing with Covid-19, in deaths, in infection rates and in vast expenditure to achieve this failure. This alone makes it both justifiable and advisable to question everything they do in this matter and not just blindly accept.

Pair of you are perfectly willing to accept all the benefits, neither of you have actually suffered yet because of covid and you both take the jab. Then afterwards say its all done wrongly. Hypocrites.

That is dishonest of you since I've posted and you've read that I mainly accepted the jab on Friday in case it might give more protection against me transmitting it to others, despite that being so marginal a possibility it might not have been worth bothering with.

Putting others first in a faint possibility does not make me a hypocrite and I strongly object to that usage.
.

 

[Zlatan]

But you aren't discussing, you are just closing your mind as usual to any balance of views on the facts:

Fact 1: Some of the government scientists actually backed the herd immunity idea when supporting the government. That is what justifies me calling them lackeys. And I'm not alone, Woosh has also posted that they conform with their employers.

Fact 2: The vaccine manufacturers have expressed strong disagreement with extending the interval between doses so in view of the well known ability of this disreputable government and particularly the prime minister to adopt expediency before evidence, it's justifiable and in our own interests to discuss that.

Fact 3: These "experts" are statistically wrong in saying that two far more widely spaced jabs gives protection to more people than having the higher risk people given both doses according to tested recommendation. I have some support there too, from Danidl this time, who also doesn't believe this is an advantageous strategy.

Fact 4: Everyone's circumstances vary and some like me are at hardly any risk at all of contracting the Covid-19 virus, despite my being in a highest risk group.

Fact 5: The sub-fact of Fact 4 being it doesn't mean highest risk of catching it, something that misses most people it seems. It only means highest risk of suffering more or dying if I do catch it. Since I have hardly any risk of catching Covid-19, I'm at so close to zero risk of transmitting it to others that it could reasonably be discounted.

Fact 6: This government and their advisors and scientists have made the world's worst mess in dealing with Covid-19, in deaths, in infection rates and in vast expenditure to achieve this failure. This alone makes it both justifiable and advisable to question everything they do in this matter and not just blindly accept.



That is dishonest of you since I've posted and you've read that I mainly accepted the jab on Friday in case it might give more protection against me transmitting it to others, despite that being so marginal a possibility it might not have been worth bothering with.

Putting others first in a faint possibility does not make me a hypocrite and I strongly object to that usage.
.

Well I strongly object to you calling such as Chris Witty lackeys..
And your facts are wrong. The advisers never ever attempted to or planned on going for herd immunity. In a briefing PV was asked at what level would it be achieved. He explained the concept but never even suggested it was a goal. The people that did were the Swedes, who npot long ago you were holding in great regard for their approach.
The only people pushing that our govt had herd immunity as a goal last March was the Guardian.
PV 's actual comment was the country would have a degree of herd immunity with the inevitable rise in cases. He was totally taken out of context, by such as Guardian, suggesting he was setting herd immunity as a goal. He said no such thing.

 

[oyster]

To be fair Hancock did make some good decisions in this matter, unlike PPE and test and trace
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-rejected-contracts-and-a-hollywood-movie-how-uk-struck-deal-to-guarantee-vaccine-supply-12204044
On the subject of vials
"
Yet from the very start there was a focus on vaccines. According to the former adviser, the DHSC started work on it in January, before there was even a case of COVID-19 in the UK.

Back then, scientists said it was unlikely a vaccine would be developed within 18 months, let alone a year - and that they would probably be around 50% effective when they arrived. Yet, encouraged by Mr Hancock, the Department for Health pushed ahead, in order to make sure everything was ready for the moment the vaccine arrived.


"
One expert warned that there would almost certainly be a shortage of glass vials. Another said that production would be difficult. A third raised the issue of supply chains.

The normal way of doing things would be to fix these issues once the vaccine was ready. But these weren't normal times - so the government determined to resolve them in advance.

Production lines were worked out. Arrangements were made for vaccine "fill and finish". Suppliers for glass vials were found and contracts were secured."

But these things should be thought about when there is no imminent threat.

Good old emergency preparedness.

Yes - good that things started happening. But should a lot of it already have been in hand and the relevant plans launched?

 

[Danidl]

Well I strongly object to you calling such as Chris Witty lackeys..
And your facts are wrong. The advisers never ever attempted to or planned on going for herd immunity. In a briefing PV was asked at what level would it be achieved. He explained the concept but never even suggested it was a goal. The people that did were the Swedes, who npot long ago you were holding in great regard for their approach.
The only people pushing that our govt had herd immunity as a goal last March was the Guardian.

Zlatan. I am not sure who in the UK was promoting the Herd Immunity concept. But I am very sure where I was and when I heard about it. Ireland had just announced that the Italy Ireland Rugby match was being cancelled, in March of last year and I was in the Sony Shop in Belfast having a conversation with the guy running it. Very unusually, Belfast Centre was empty, because the Mammies had voted with their feet and were keeping their kids out of School, despite A.Fosters instruction. I was able to park directly outside the shop on Grosvenor Street.. which anyone with familiarity with Belfast would be astonished. I had just deposited my daughter at her( essential) place of work and returning home and picking up an item I had ordered . The guy told me about this UK policy, which I expect he had picked up off the many TVs . I told him instantly it was bonkers, and we agreed to differ.

 

[flecc]

Well I strongly object to you calling such as Chris Witty lackeys..
And your facts are wrong. The advisers never ever attempted to or planned on going for herd immunity. In a briefing PV was asked at what level would it be achieved. He explained the concept but never even suggested it was a goal. The people that did were the Swedes, who npot long ago you were holding in great regard for their approach.
The only people pushing that our govt had herd immunity as a goal last March was the Guardian.

Utter nonsense. The politicians did speak of Herd Immunity as a goal and PV had the opportunity to say it was undesirable but kept his mouth shut on that as a good government lackey should.

And once again you are being dishonest. When posting on the Swedish approach and always elswhere, I always said that I did not believe in herd immunity. You won't find anywhere that I've said different. As I always made clear, my belief in the Swedish approach was in their choice of balance of lives against avoidance cost, and I and the Swedes have been proved right. As I posted they've spent hardly anything in Covid defence compare to our astronomic waste of billions and have a lower death rate than us.
.

 

[vfr400]

as you said, those who bought at $20 a share have realised some profit so they can't lose.
How about those who joined the bandwagon only in the last week?
What goes up on a hot air balloon will come down just as quickly. As soon as the market makers decide to pull the plug, the price will plunge.
They make money whichever way the price moves.
I reckon the craziness will end some time this week.

Did you not read the rest of my post?

This will not stop until the establishment finds some way to stop these guys communicating and buying shares. Expect to see some sort of censorship and regulations coming shortly.

More shocking info about Game Stop: Apparently, the financial institutions reloaded their shorts when the share price was $400, then they got the Whitehouse and others to put pressure on Robinhood and the other share dealing platforms to not allow the shares to be bought, though they still allowed to sell, so the price would go down and they could mitigate some of their previous losses. It all fits in with what Romanian Tvee showed in the video above. That is real illegal market manipulation. This isn't going to end well.

Watch the price of silver. You can hardly buy any at the moment. As a punishment to the financial instituions they're targeting that next, then they'll be on to other commodities. They've figured out that all the main financial institutions have considerably shorted silver to drive the price down. If they buy 1 billion ounces, the entire financial system will crash. This is going to be interesting to see how it pans out.

What I find more interesting is to see what side people choose to support. Traditionally, left wingers would have been supporting the little guys, but it's surprising how many seem to hate them for whatever reason. The same with right wing commentators, who were traditionally for free markets. This is really making them all come out of the closet and show their true colours. Which side do you think Biden's going to be on after all those financial institutions paid for his election campaign?

 

[oldgroaner]

Zlatan is right though. He’s spot on matey.

The pair of you are as bad as each other

 

[Zlatan]

'The best advert for Brexit': European press reacts to EU Covid vaccine row

Continental newspapers give harsh verdicts on the European commission’s actions

www.theguardian.com

And this is the Guardian...

Worldwide vaccine figures(%age of target reached)

 

[Zlatan]

The pair of you are as bad as each other

Your first compliment in four years.

 

[oldgroaner]

But you aren't discussing, you are just closing your mind as usual to any balance of views on the facts:

Fact 1: Some of the government scientists actually backed the herd immunity idea when supporting the government. That is what justifies me calling them lackeys. And I'm not alone, Woosh has also posted that they conform with their employers.

Fact 2: The vaccine manufacturers have expressed strong disagreement with extending the interval between doses so in view of the well known ability of this disreputable government and particularly the prime minister to adopt expediency before evidence, it's justifiable and in our own interests to discuss that.

Fact 3: These "experts" are statistically wrong in saying that two far more widely spaced jabs gives protection to more people than having the higher risk people given both doses according to tested recommendation. I have some support there too, from Danidl this time, who also doesn't believe this is an advantageous strategy.

Fact 4: Everyone's circumstances vary and some like me are at hardly any risk at all of contracting the Covid-19 virus, despite my being in a highest risk group.

Fact 5: The sub-fact of Fact 4 being it doesn't mean highest risk of catching it, something that misses most people it seems. It only means highest risk of suffering more or dying if I do catch it. Since I have hardly any risk of catching Covid-19, I'm at so close to zero risk of transmitting it to others that it could reasonably be discounted.

Fact 6: This government and their advisors and scientists have made the world's worst mess in dealing with Covid-19, in deaths, in infection rates and in vast expenditure to achieve this failure. This alone makes it both justifiable and advisable to question everything they do in this matter and not just blindly accept.



That is dishonest of you since I've posted and you've read that I mainly accepted the jab on Friday in case it might give more protection against me transmitting it to others, despite that being so marginal a possibility it might not have been worth bothering with.

Putting others first in a faint possibility does not make me a hypocrite and I strongly object to that usage.
.

I don't suppose for a moment out resident comedy duo considered that aspect of accepting the vaccination.
Too much thinking beyond their bigotry involved.

 

[oldgroaner]

Encouraging results from Israel after second doses
Small number of infections after second dose of vaccine

 

[flecc]

Encouraging results from Israel after second doses
Small number of infections after second dose of vaccine

Indeed, but this extract is worrying though:

"Last week’s health ministry figures may provide further concern for the UK policy. It showed that 42% of Israel’s 834 critically ill patients had already received one shot of the Pfizer vaccine. That figure dropped to 2% after the second jab."

Doesn't look like much immunity after one jab.
.

 

[oyster]

'The best advert for Brexit': European press reacts to EU Covid vaccine row

Continental newspapers give harsh verdicts on the European commission’s actions

www.theguardian.com

And this is the Guardian...

Worldwide vaccine figures(%age of target reached)
View attachment 40539

Out of date.

Inherently.

The figures for Wales are delayed - only verified figures are reported. So possibly a few days behind. Whereas England seems to add numbers as soon as they think another vaccine has been injected.

 

[Woosh]

. Which side do you think Biden's going to be on after all those financial institutions paid for his election campaign?

I don't know but I suspect he would try to curb robinhood and WSB.
They are pushers - the short squeeze may ruin some hedge funds but certainly ruin the life of many more inexperienced investors.
Buying those highly volatile shares is trading, not investing.
Years ago, I tried day trading for about 4 months on CMC, mostly on currencies and market indexes. I did OK for a while until I got fleeced.