Brexit, for once some facts.

[Kudoscycles]

There were 16 million remainers in the referendum vote,possibly 20 million now, the feedback I get is that these voters would look for a way out of this Brexit mess,yet no party seems to be speaking for what is a very large percentage of the electorate.
Keir Starmer would clearly love to stand up and state his position as a remainer but he is frightened of Corbyn.
A combined Labour plus Tory rebels plus SNP plus Liberals could vote down the triggering of Article 50 and force either a second referendum or a general election.
Yet everyone still keeps ranting about 'the will of the people',are we sure that Brexit still represents the will of the people?
KudosDave

 

[oldgroaner]

"
The triple lock that protects the state pension and guarantees it will rise annually by at least 2.5% until 2020 is under threat.
A report from the Work and Pensions Committee says it should be scrapped as it is unsustainable.
It says pensioners have been protected from the public spending cuts that younger groups are suffering. And, after monthly housing costs are taken into account, average pensioner household incomes now exceed those of working-age households.
MPs now claim this is leading to an unfair and skewed economy."
Note that last line; Pensioners are replacing the wilfully unemployed as public enemy number 1.
Lets see now this chart puts us at no 21

Applying that logic to working age households, that must mean they are in Abject poverty, not that the system is skewed towards the pensioners.

Logically that is the real problem as the pensions here are too low, not too large.
And the Government has the Brass Cheek to claim they are too high?

Bearing these facts in mind, can any Brexit voter make a case for leaving the EU (Which has just introduced some new pensions legislation) so that the Tory Government can make matters even worse?

 

[trex]

There were 16 million remainers in the referendum vote,possibly 20 million now, the feedback I get is that these voters would look for a way out of this Brexit mess,yet no party seems to be speaking for what is a very large percentage of the electorate.
Keir Starmer would clearly love to stand up and state his position as a remainer but he is frightened of Corbyn.
A combined Labour plus Tory rebels plus SNP plus Liberals could vote down the triggering of Article 50 and force either a second referendum or a general election.
Yet everyone still keeps ranting about 'the will of the people',are we sure that Brexit still represents the will of the people?
KudosDave

it seems clearer as Mrs May prepares to trigger article 50 that brexit will not have a huge effect if and when it happens. I think the battle has moved on since Ms Gina Miller won her case. The current fight is whether we stay in the Single Market, if not, EU Customs Union.
Anything harder brexit, parliament, the lords and second referendum will block brexit.

 

[oldgroaner]

The secret of being a pro Brexit Politician is to say whatever seems likely to be popular
From the Daily Mail
"
Senior Tories including Michael Gove pen a letter to Theresa May demanding 'hard Brexit' and a clean break from the EU

• Mr Gove is among 'dozens' of Conservative MPs who have signed a letter calling on a tough stance on Europe

And what did Gollum say before and during the Referendum?


The UK would still be able to trade freely within Europe even if it left the EU, Michael Gove has said.

The justice secretary said the UK could be part of Europe's free trade area to avoid trade tariffs, even if it was not a member of the EU single market.

He obviously subscribes to the following moral viewpoint.
Which appears to be a Tory Proverb.

"Normally I cannot abide hypocrisy,
But I'm prepared to make an exception in my own case!"

 

[trex]

the independent has this story: 60 tory MPs signing a letter urging Mrs May to opt for hard brexit. They (those MPs) are as full of contradictions as ever. Those who vote for brexit need more free trade deals like a hole in the head. It's excessive free trade that is responsible for the disappearance of their well paid manufacturing jobs.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sixty-tory-mps-demand-theresa-may-commits-britain-to-a-hard-brexit-a7426811.html

In their letter:

“The UK is ideally positioned to catalyse a new global trading system which works for everyone.”

Since when brexit sponsors like Bamford and Dyson worry about keeping manufacturing jobs in the UK?

 

[Kudoscycles]

This classic meaningless rhetoric 'the UK is ideally positioned to catalyse a new global trading system that works for everyone'
It so reminds me of the rhetoric that preceded the closure of Manston airport...quote....Manston airport is perfectly positioned to become the new UK Chinese trading hub ......why? It has awful transport links,the infrastructure is non existent,no air transport firms would use it etc etc....it closed 12 months later with massive debts.
Why is the UK ideally positioned,it has 23 miles of water separating us from our biggest trading partner,our transport is 20 years behind,we are the centre of the worlds financial hub but we seem to want to kick that out,we don't want immigrants,our wifi system is patchy and slow,we don't speak others languages....it's remarkable that we are doing as well as we are and now we want to tell the world we don't want them.
The best location for European trade is the corridor from Rotterdam to Essen,the new 10 day train runs from Beijing to Duisberg,Rotterdam is a cheaper port than Felistowe,the road/train system spidering out from those locations into Western Europe is very good,we are sure of no tariffs to 27 countries and trade agreements to 50 more.
Local councils in Holland and Germany are very commercial and business friendly,business rates are almost zero and land is offered in return for jobs.
I can see nil reasons why any company would invest in the UK especially inward investment unless massive inducements are provided by this government,after Nissan they are very vulnerable.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

the independent has this story: 60 tory MPs signing a letter urging Mrs May to opt for hard brexit. They (those MPs) are as full of contradictions as ever. Those who vote for brexit need more free trade deals like a hole in the head. It's excessive free trade that is responsible for the disappearance of their well paid manufacturing jobs.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sixty-tory-mps-demand-theresa-may-commits-britain-to-a-hard-brexit-a7426811.html

In their letter:

“The UK is ideally positioned to catalyse a new global trading system which works for everyone.”

Since when brexit sponsors like Bamford and Dyson worry about keeping manufacturing jobs in the UK?

What do these 60 MP's seek to achieve by a hard Brexit?
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

Boris has promised....
1. £350 million a week to be paid to the NHS
2. Free movement of UK people throughout Europe,he doesn't seem to mention EU people throughout the UK.
3. EU and UK citizens full protected throughout the UK and Europe.
4. Irish border 'unchanged'
5. Brexit will not break up the union,note Scotland
6. Retain our 'top table' position with Europe negotiations
7. Retention of the single market then retention of the customs union....he doesn't seem to make his mind on this one.
8. Free trade with the world and no tariffs between the UK and EU.
9. 10% tax free bonus for all goods shipped out of the UK into Europe

Ok ,I lied about the last one,the rest seemed like 'pigs might fly' so I thought I would go for broke.
Well done Boris!!!!!
KudosDave

 

[oldgroaner]

What do these 60 MP's seek to achieve by a hard Brexit?
KudosDave

The Order of Lenin
(Or whatever name it goes by now)

 

[oldgroaner]

Boris has promised....
1. £350 million a week to be paid to the NHS
2. Free movement of UK people throughout Europe,he doesn't seem to mention EU people throughout the UK.
3. EU and UK citizens full protected throughout the UK and Europe.
4. Irish border 'unchanged'
5. Brexit will not break up the union,note Scotland
6. Retain our 'top table' position with Europe negotiations
7. Retention of the single market then retention of the customs union....he doesn't seem to make his mind on this one.
8. Free trade with the world and no tariffs between the UK and EU.
9. 10% tax free bonus for all goods shipped out of the UK into Europe

Ok ,I lied about the last one,the rest seemed like 'pigs might fly' so I thought I would go for broke.
Well done Boris!!!!!
KudosDave

You missed out get Turkey into the EU

 

[oldgroaner]

From Reuters
!
Hammond to announce 1.3 billion pound road boost in budget
Chancellor Phillip Hammond will this week announce 1.3 billion pounds in new spending on roads as part of his plans to bolster the economy as Britain prepares to leave the European Union, the Treasury said on Sunday.

Welcome news indeed!
If the country is hell bent on careering downhill, at least this fine man will have spent enough to have filled in the potholes.

Well perhaps it might be enough to do that at least!

Oh Dear! I was mistaken
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3011999/UK-s-potholes-13-years-cost-12billion-One-six-roads-said-poor-condition-despite-emergency-fund-repair-them.html
According to a source beyond reproach (Daily Mail)
"
UK's potholes will take 13 years and cost £12billion to fill: One in six roads said to still be in poor condition despite emergency fund to repair them

• One in six roads are still in poor shape even after millions of potholes fixed
• Asphalt Industry Alliance says money spent filling in 2.7million was wasted
• A report says that clearing the backlog of repairs could take up to 13 years

The Goodness is flowing, er actually dripping a little might be nearer!

It would appear that even when the country goes downhill it will be a Bumpy ride!

 

[oldgroaner]

From Reuters
!
Hammond to announce 1.3 billion pound road boost in budget
Chancellor Phillip Hammond will this week announce 1.3 billion pounds in new spending on roads as part of his plans to bolster the economy as Britain prepares to leave the European Union, the Treasury said on Sunday.

I occurs to me that is should be about enough to repave the road between the Nissan factory and the docks?

 

[oldgroaner]

"U.K. Prime Minister Theresa May has enlisted her husband, who has worked in finance for more than 30 years, to help her charm business leaders as she prepares to take the country out of the European Union."

Nothing like keeping it in the family is there?
The Goodness will flow in the intended direction.
No conflict of interest of course, perish the thought.

 

[D8ve]

"U.K. Prime Minister Theresa May has enlisted her husband, who has worked in finance for more than 30 years, to help her charm business leaders as she prepares to take the country out of the European Union."

Nothing like keeping it in the family is there?
The Goodness will flow in the intended direction.
No conflict of interest of course, perish the thought.

I like the my partner will provide the charm and looks, hasn't she got any?

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Daily Mail
I think Boris is about to achieve his main objective
"Bumbling Boris's Brexit 'blunder' (part three): After prosecco and trade gaffes... now Johnson is accused of bringing the WRONG notes to Cabinet

• A source said the Foreign Secretary sparked groans of disapproval

• This fuelled rumours the PM is 'coming to the end of her tether' with him

• It is not the first error he has made since taking up the senior position

• Johnon's camp has refuted the fact he was ill-equipped for the meeting

Well done, before long he will have jumped overboard completely!

 

[oldgroaner]

I like the my partner will provide the charm and looks, hasn't she got any?

NO sounds good to me!
Mind you he looks "Second to Bonny" as we say in Yorkshire, it must be he has that G4S appeal?

 

[Kudoscycles]

Hammond on the Andrew Marr show said 'we are going to achieve the best possible deal with the EU' x 14 times,4 times in 15 secs.
Is this the best rhetoric they've got?
Open Britain seem to be saying that we can stay in the single market but leave the custom union,is that possible? Is that good for business?
The Lib Dems are pushing hard for Richmond Park,their vote will surely be about Anti Brexit,it was a heavy remain vote area.
KudosDave

 

[trex]

the government still hasn't got a plan so what else can they say?
official forecasts are gloomy.

 

[Kudoscycles]

It appears to me that staying in the single market involves the free movement of people as well as goods,that would be politically unacceptable by the leavers.
The customs union requires us to accept the import tariffs of the EU ,that would again be politically unacceptable by the leavers.
I think the leavers don't really care whether we continue to trade with the EU,by any form,they will only be satisfied when all of us are dragged down to the income of the poorest,a voyage to the bottom,Remoaners will fight against that.
Do leavers honestly think that we can turn our back on EU trade because we are going to replace it with rest of world trade?
KudosDave

 

[trex]

Outside the Single Market and inside the Customs Union is the solution that the government seems to be heading to, if they cannot negotiate a transitional period. What many leavers do not see is that Customs Union suits cheap labour member countries like Turkey and will cause many banks to relocate.
Whichever way you spin it, the three brexiteers don't have much of a job.