Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

How is reclaiming land, property and capital into state ownership anything but communism?

Property and capital maybe, but never land.

No-one should ever be able to own land, the whole of this earth's land belongs to all life here, by virtue of being born on this earth.

It's the ownership of land that has so grossly perverted the cost of housing.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

None of those are insults OG. If you spout communist dictate being called a communist is to be expected.
How is reclaiming land, property and capital into state ownership anything but communism?
Communism is a perfectly acceptable method of government for some. Why is it an insult? Especially so when your doctrine is pretty much in total agreement with that of a communist?
Its like taking insult at being called an Audi driver.... When you drive one..??
What would you call your political doctrine bearing in mind you support total state ownership of everything and a free for all for everybody? Its communism OG...!!!,??

If you check I have made no such claims about state ownership, and no one should own land anyway, having said that I have nothing against nationalising things like rail water and power.
Like health they should benefit all.

 

[oldgroaner]

He’s proud to be a communist. I’ve heard Corbyn has lined him up for a job in his theme park, in charge of the assets and savings rinser ride.

I am no Communist I'm a humanist and thus socialist.

 

[50Hertz]

Property and capital maybe, but never land.

Try telling that to The Duke of Devonshire and his horse-faced wife.

 

[50Hertz]

I am no Communist I'm a humanist and thus socialist.

I think you are a kind & well meaning man who considers the needs of others, but a trace of commie does come through from time to time.

 

[oldgroaner]

I think you are a kind & well meaning man who considers the needs of others, but a trace of commie does come through from time to time.

Ah well, there's more than a trace of insanity too there I'm sure!
I suspect the trace is actually of "Leveller" thinking minus the fact they excluded women from suffrage.

 

[oldgroaner]

In the Express they are still pretending Boris calls the shots
"
Brexit masterplan: Johnson handed no deal ‘blueprint’ - as Varadkar issued DIRE warning
WITH Boris Johnson warning the EU the only alternative to his latest Brexit suggestions is no deal, the Prime Minister has been offered a blueprint setting out how disruption kept a minimum if no agreement can be struck.

No Boris, No Deal is off.

 

[oldgroaner]

According to the Daily Mail its all the fault of the Irish
"
The Brexit Showdown: Boris Johnson's blueprint gains momentum in London as MPs swing behind five-point plan... but Dublin REJECTS it saying Britons want to stay in the EU

 

[50Hertz]

I’m sorry for the long post which follows, it is a cut & paste job which I dislike doing. This information is circulating under the heading of What Remainers Refuse to talk about. To me it sounds like BS, but here we go:

WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT THE LISBON TREATY, THE TREATY THAT WILL BE FULLY IMPLEMENTED IN 2020...‍
“What will actually happen if we stay in the EU” is a question no remainer will ever answer but here it is warts and all.
1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU LOSE their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with NO abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with NO exceptions or veto’s.
3: ALL member states MUST adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen, the move is fully cancelled - but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 - as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealths
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.: Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020...
This is the future that the youths of today THINK WE stole from them?
They should be on their knees thanking us for saving them from being turned into Orwellian automatons!

This is the whole reason they are dragging brexit out. So we can get to 2020 then we have no choice OTHER THAN COMPLETE & TOTAL ACCEPTANCE......

 

[Zlatan]

Can we have a source please 50?

 

[oldgroaner]

I’m sorry for the long post which follows, it is a cut & paste job which I dislike doing. This information is circulating under the heading of What Remainers Refuse to talk about. To me it sounds like BS, but here we go:

WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT THE LISBON TREATY, THE TREATY THAT WILL BE FULLY IMPLEMENTED IN 2020...‍
“What will actually happen if we stay in the EU” is a question no remainer will ever answer but here it is warts and all.
1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU LOSE their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with NO abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with NO exceptions or veto’s.
3: ALL member states MUST adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen, the move is fully cancelled - but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 - as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealths
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.: Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020...
This is the future that the youths of today THINK WE stole from them?
They should be on their knees thanking us for saving them from being turned into Orwellian automatons!

This is the whole reason they are dragging brexit out. So we can get to 2020 then we have no choice OTHER THAN COMPLETE & TOTAL ACCEPTANCE......

What utter and absolute rot!
What are you playing at? this is all utter BS
Read the facts here

Myths about the lisbon Treaty debunked

The Lisbon Treaty came into being in 2009 amended and agreed, the final terms agreed and that was the end of the matter.
If ever there was a pack of lies, this post of yours is the worst yet

How convenient that it appears again when public support is needed for Johnson's swindles, working on the principle that the gullible will not check the true facts of the situation.

 

[oldgroaner]

Can we have a source please 50?

This was debunked years ago!

 

[50Hertz]

Can we have a source please 50?

It’s circulating on Facebook and I’ve also seen it in PPRuNe. First source is dodgy, but the second is usually reliable.

I still think the article is BS, but would like to here other thoughts.

 

[oldgroaner]

It’s circulating on Facebook and I’ve also seen it in PPRuNe. First source is dodgy, but the second is usually reliable.

I still think the article is BS, but would like to here other thoughts.

Then If you weren't taken in, I apologise for assuming you had. Your post certainly gave that impression especially this last paragraph
"This is the whole reason they are dragging brexit out. So we can get to 2020 then we have no choice OTHER THAN COMPLETE & TOTAL ACCEPTANCE...... "
I have amended my post accordingly.

What we have there is a piece of dangerous and misleading FAKE NEWS

 

[daveboy]

Most of it is BS. But if you read the link OG has provided some of it is quite worrying. We don't lose our veto but a lot more laws are to be decided by majority vote with no veto. We also wouldn't lose our rebate automatically (this would be decided by a vote) if this vote was a majority vote(I can't see us having a veto) our chances of keeping our rebate would be nil.

 

[oldgroaner]

Most of it is BS. But if you read the link OG has provided some of it is quite worrying. We don't lose our veto but a lot more laws are to be decided by majority vote with no veto. We also wouldn't lose our rebate automatically (this would be decided by a vote) if this vote was a majority vote(I can't see us having a veto) our chances of keeping our rebate would be nil.

Why should that worry you? it's the way our parliament has always worked, since when did the opposition have a veto on the governent unless it has numerical superiority?
Why do you jump to the conclusion we will oppose new laws, when in fact we have only opposed
Here you are.....our influence over EU law making
"
Official EU voting records* show that the British government has voted ‘No’ to laws passed at EU level on 56 occasions, abstained 70 times, and voted ‘Yes’ 2,466 times since 1999, according to UK in a Changing Europe Fellows Sara Hagemann and Simon Hix.

In other words, UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%."

Not very risky was it?


And you should be asking, why do we get a rebate? and what could be renegotiated ?
We have never behaved as real members of the EU have we? just Cherry picked, and now we will end up with nothing at all..

 

[daveboy]

Why should that worry you? it's the way our parliament has always worked, since when did the opposition have a veto on the governent unless it has numerical superiority?
And you should be asking, why do we get a rebate? and what could be renegotiated ?
We have never behaved as real members of the EU have we? just Cherry picked, and now we will end up with nothing at all..

If you can't see the disadvantage of this to the UK then your blinkers need adjusting.
Edit.. You added a few paragraphs after my reply (as you usually do) past voting is no clue to future voting..( if they knew we would veto it then why propose it)

 

[50Hertz]

Then If you weren't taken in, I apologise for assuming you had.

That’s ok, I accept your apology and bestow my forgiveness upon you ;-)

Seriously, everything after the colon in my original post formed part of the article.

I suspect it is fake news and it’s this kind of horse $hit which makes the referendum null and void. We need another go and remain need to improve their efforts to dispel this kind of nonsense.

 

[oldgroaner]

That’s ok, I accept your apology and bestow my forgiveness upon you ;-)

Seriously, everything after the colon in my original post formed part of the article.

I suspect it is fake news and it’s this kind of horse $hit which makes the referendum null and void. We need another go and remain need to improve their efforts to dispel this kind of nonsense.

Thank you your worship.... seriously this is a classic example of the sort of thing that an sway public opinion, as most people not unreasonably accept it on face value.
Something needs to be done to ensure messages to the public comply with the truth.

 

[oldgroaner]

If you can't see the disadvantage of this to the UK then your blinkers need adjusting.

Haven't you read my further post? 98% success in getting our own way over new EU laws?
And we act as full members and pay our share?
I don't wear blinkers, what's your excuse?