Brexit, for once some facts.

[oyster]

John Crace did a pretty good sketch - with some stonking comments:

Bumbling Boris Johnson takes to the airwaves to lie, lie and lie again

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/25/bumbling-boris-johnson-takes-to-airwaves-to-lie-lie-and-lie-again

 

[oyster]

Can you imagine either tory candidate saying, or even considering saying:

"Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country."

So far, just about everything is saying what they want.

 

[Danidl]

Can you imagine either tory candidate saying, or even considering saying:

"Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country."

So far, just about everything is saying what they want.

..I thought the last phase was Ask how you can Do your country!.

 

[oyster]

Can you imagine either tory candidate saying, or even considering saying:

"Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country."

So far, just about everything is saying what they want.

Interesting that gray198 seems to be able to imagine one or other (or both?) candidates saying something similar.

 

[Danidl]

we were told if we didn't join the Euro it would be an economic disaster, if we VOTED to leave it would be an economic disaster. They could not have been more wrong, and yet they are predicting Armageddon if we leave the safety blanket of the EU. I suppose they could get 1 out of 3 right, but I stay optimistic in the face of all the gloom mongers

I don't remember the first of these, but the second is actually true . Growth rate forgone, Exports up only because of a 20% devaluation in currency.

 

[OxygenJames]

But surely you as an intelligent man can see Johnson is winging it?

Surely?

So?

 

[OxygenJames]

So? (so what to Boris 'winging' it).

To flesh that out a bit. Fingers - come on - from any 'rational' point of view there is pretty much no way out of the problem we face is there. Have you heard of one? One where we get a new deal or leave by Oct 31st without wrecking everything?

I've not (heard of one).

So it's going to take some 'winging'. It's going to take some 'thinking outside the box'. It's going to take some creativity. To be frank it's going to take some luck.

Fingers crossed eh?

We live in interesting times that's for sure.

Enjoy the rest of your day.

 

[oldgroaner]

we were told if we didn't join the Euro it would be an economic disaster, if we VOTED to leave it would be an economic disaster. They could not have been more wrong, and yet they are predicting Armageddon if we leave the safety blanket of the EU. I suppose they could get 1 out of 3 right, but I stay optimistic in the face of all the gloom mongers

That's odd, who told you that if we didn't join the euro it would be a disaster? don't you find it odd that we chose not to join?
Blair was one of it's fans, but he said this
"
December 30 2001
In his new year's message, he made it clear he wanted the euro to be a successful, major international currency.
"'The new year sees the introduction of the European single currency. With so much of our trade and so many of our jobs tied up in business with the rest of Europe, it is massively in our interests that the euro succeeds."
"It remains the government's policy to join the euro provided that the five economic tests we have laid down are met and the British people give their consent in a referendum."
It never happened did it?

It was of course Financial Papers like the FT, that was rooting for the Euro Cameron made no move that way, did he?

And even though we haven't left yet, are you of the opinion we have prospered in the interrim period before Brexit finally happens?
And no one anywhere forecast Armageddon did they? no one at all here is the definition

"What is the battle of Armageddon?". Answer: The word “Armageddon” comes from a Hebrew word Har-Magedone, which means “Mount Megiddo” and has become synonymous with the future battle in which God will intervene and destroy the armies of the Antichrist as predicted in biblical prophecy

And having covered all that we are left with

I stay optimistic in the face of all the gloom mongers

At last there is something we can agree on, if I may add to your remark

I stay optimistic in the face of all the gloom mongers, that once the effects of this decision make themselves all too obvious to the public, there will be a call re apply for admission to EU membership and a return to sanity.

 

[50Hertz]

Nor would anyone believe,6years ago that the USA is running concentration camps on its southern border for CHILDREN.

No one would believe it because it isn’t happening.

 

[oldgroaner]

To flesh that out a bit. Fingers - come on - from any 'rational' point of view there is pretty much no way out of the problem we face is there. Have you heard of one? One where we get a new deal or leave by Oct 31st without wrecking everything?

I've not (heard of one).

So it's going to take some 'winging'. It's going to take some 'thinking outside the box'. It's going to take some creativity. To be frank it's going to take some luck.

Fingers crossed eh?

We live in interesting times that's for sure.

Enjoy the rest of your day.

Snag is you need someone with creative ideas to "Wing it" not coco the clown, someone who imagines "Thinking outside the box" consists of painting it to resemble a bus

The way out of this situation is a further referendum otherwise you risk allowing the fate of the country to be directed by right wing groups under the influence of foreign nations,hostile to the future of our population

 

[Woosh]

Correct and the Withdrawal Agreement included leaving the authority of the ECJ, ,and leaving the security of the single market, how much more leaving did you want?

it's like a tatoo removal.
it seems to me that leavers want to laser off the past 44 years.

 

[oldgroaner]

No one would believe it because it isn’t happening.

A google search on the situation
Are there terrible conditions at USA internment camps for migrants

• ​
• Is it wrong to say the US has concentration camps? The ...
  www.nwitimes.com/news/national/govt-and-politics/...
  As the U.S. warns of dangerous conditions in its migrant detention facilities, Zachary B. Wolf of CNN analyzes the use of the term "concentration camps" to describe the situation o
  • Clicking on the list gave this
  • 451: Unavailable due to legal reasons
    
    We recognize you are attempting to access this website from a country belonging to the European Economic Area (EEA) including the EU which enforces the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and therefore access cannot be granted at this time. For any issues, contact support@leetemplates.com or call 800-589-3331.

But despite that it is clear that CNN has concerns
And here too
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/jun/20/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-compared-migrant-camps-co/

If you want to be pedantic about the term "Concentration Camps"
concentration camps are not the same as death camps. Concentration camps are considered by experts as ‘the mass detention of civilians without trial.

 

[Woosh]

So?

he plays the bumbling Englishman.
he hardly speaks normally, leave alone fluently on any subject.
He is incoherent half of the time.
Do you want to talk like that when you talk to people in the street?

 

[oldgroaner]

it's like a tatoo removal.
it seems to me that leavers want to laser off the past 44 years.

As in this moral tale of the two girls discussing the tattoo an ex boyfriend had on the smallest part of his anatomy
The girl in favour of leave asserted
Did you know he had the word "ludo" tattooed on it? somewhat scornfully

Whereas the one who voted remain said fondly
The last time I looked it said
Llandudno.

 

[50Hertz]

A google search on the situation
Are there terrible conditions at USA internment camps for migrants

• ​
• Is it wrong to say the US has concentration camps? The ...
  www.nwitimes.com/news/national/govt-and-politics/...
  As the U.S. warns of dangerous conditions in its migrant detention facilities, Zachary B. Wolf of CNN analyzes the use of the term "concentration camps" to describe the situation o
  • Clicking on the list gave this
  • 451: Unavailable due to legal reasons
    
    We recognize you are attempting to access this website from a country belonging to the European Economic Area (EEA) including the EU which enforces the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and therefore access cannot be granted at this time. For any issues, contact support@leetemplates.com or call 800-589-3331.

But despite that it is clear that CNN has concerns
And here too
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/jun/20/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-compared-migrant-camps-co/

If you want to be pedantic about the term "Concentration Camps"
concentration camps are not the same as death camps. Concentration camps are considered by experts as ‘the mass detention of civilians without trial.

You should know not to trust the internet, it’s run by foreign agents intent on doing harm to the UK. Trusting the Internet is exactly how Brexit started.

Experts also considered John Worboys to be safe for release. That was until it dawned on them that he’d raped a few more women. Don’t trust anyone with the title of “expert”, they present a severe danger to you and your loved ones. Be warned.

 

[oldgroaner]

I gave in to moral cowardice yesterday, I was late after having the washer repaired and picked up the car from being repaired at the main dealer, so popped into the local Macdonalds to find the car park full of police cars.
"is it a drugs bust " I wondered, but curiosity won and I went in to find they were all sat round one of the long tables tucking into food.

I was tempted to whip out my phone get a swift shot of this homely scene and go on twitter with the caption "in the event of non urgent complaints, please dial 100 or ring your local Mc Donalds"

One of the employees offered,they come in like this quite a lot, good customers and they're no trouble.

When faced with odds of 12 to 1, I chickened out.

 

[oldgroaner]

You should know not to trust the internet, it’s run by foreign agents intent on doing harm to the UK. Trusting the Internet is exactly how Brexit started.

Experts also considered John Worboys to be safe for release. That was until it dawned on them that he’d raped a few more women. Don’t trust anyone with the title of “expert”, they present a severe danger to you and your loved ones. Be warned.

I shall take your EXPERT ADVICE. Oh yes! absolutely ...

 

[oyster]

I gave in to moral cowardice yesterday, I was late after having the washer repaired and picked up the car from being repaired at the main dealer, so popped into the local Macdonalds to find the car park full of police cars.
"is it a drugs bust " I wondered, but curiosity won and I went in to find they were all sat round one of the long tables tucking into food.

I was tempted to whip out my phone get a swift shot of this homely scene and go on twitter with the caption "in the event of non urgent complaints, please dial 100 or ring your local Mc Donalds"

One of the employees offered,they come in like this quite a lot, good customers and they're no trouble.

When faced with odds of 12 to 1, I chickened out.

About twenty years ago, some police attended a non-incident at a friendly local show and fair.

As there was nothing to do, several of them ended up sitting, in full uniform, on the horses of the roundabout. I did take a picture - but think I have lost it, unfortunately.

 

[oldgroaner]

About twenty years ago, some police attended a non-incident at a friendly local show and fair.

As there was nothing to do, several of them ended up sitting, in full uniform, on the horses of the roundabout. I did take a picture - but think I have lost it, unfortunately.

I would have titled it "Modern Mounted Police get Astronaut type high "G" training on the centrifuge...

 

[Nev]

it seems to me that leavers want to laser off the past 44 years.

I agree, what is really amazing is that by all accounts the majority of Tori members are much better off than the average person in the UK, and so they have done very well out of the "system" over the last 44 years.

So why would anyone want to risk what has worked reasonably well, for something that has never been tried before, and for something that could have very serious down sides and doubtful up side. This defies logic, hence my comments earlier, leavers aren't interested in facts, Brexit has become their faith. I really don't see how you can combat that, no argument you put up is going to resonate with them, and I am not sure if a referendum would be much use either.

At the moment I think remain has about a 10 point lead in polls, but remain had an even bigger lead prior to the last referendum and look what happened. It would not surprise me if there was another referendum if leave would win again. People say, oh but we would now know what we are voting for, the problem is that many leavers don't believe anything that challenges their belief in Brexit.

The leave side would have all the charismatic people championing their cause (BJ, NF etc.) it does not matter that these guys are liars and cheats, they are brilliant conn men, more than capable of winning another referendum vote.

On the remain side who would we have, JC? Someone that was so keen on remaining that during the last referendum campaign he went on holiday for a couple of weeks at the height of it. It is well documented that he has never liked the EU, and I get the impression now that he doesn't really care either way if we stay in or leave. Just as long as he does not get the blame either way.

There is a case to be made that next time around some leavers would not bother to vote as they would consider it a waste of time, and that some remainers would vote who did not bother before because they assumed remain would win. There is also evidence that indicates that it is older people who are more likely to vote leave and younger people more likely to vote remain. So as older leave voters die off and younger people reach the age of being eligible to vote then this would help the remain cause.

Would all this be enough to counter act what would likely to another excellent leave campeign, and a hopeless remain one? I really don't see where we go from here, it must be quite nice to be say a Norwegian citizen.