Brexit, for once some facts.

[Kudoscycles]

Daily Telegraph this morning
Two thirds believe Britain is on the right track following Brexit vote, new poll shows
two thirds of people believe Britain is on the right track following the Brexit vote and most believe the economy will do well over the next year, a new poll has revealed.

Research found that 59 per cent of people said the UK is moving in the right direction, including almost 30 per cent of those who voted to remain in the EU in the recent referendum.

The poll, conducted by Lord Ashcroft, shows that the majority of the 8,000 people asked are optimistic about Britain's future outside the union, despite fears that a vote to leave would cause economic uncertainty.

30% of the remain voters have changed sides have they?

Lets see now what could have convinced them?
Dire warnings from Japan.......er no.
May and Boris saying different things............er no.
Not having a plan.......................er no.
realisation that the leave promises will come true..............er no
propaganda that Britain is booming but we have only had a vote...................?
Morbid curiosity..................................?

I just dont believe that poll....everyone I speak to about Brexit is either...
1. Sick of hearing about it already.
2. Leavers think they have been duped by Gove,Johnson and Farage. They also think that if May said 'the people have spoken' then they voted for a package which Boris said included £350million per week to the NHS and a points system for immigration. Now that May has said that those pledges will not be upheld,then the whole referendum vote is null and void.
3. Remainers think that the whole Brexit experiment is looking like a bad idea getting worse daily.
I think everybody agrees that May and Co are making a real mess of it,I havent found anybody who is optimistic about Brexit.
KudosDave

 

[anotherkiwi]

De Gaule is! I can hear him chuckling in his tomb "j'avais raison !"

 

[trex]

why we should be out of the EU for a while.

http://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article/2014/06/05/amis-anglais-sortez-de-l-union-europeenne-mais-ne-la-faites-pas-mourir_4431399_3232.html

 

[Kudoscycles]

David Davis speech...this bit caught my attention.
'Fourth, the government will leave the EU and put the supremacy of parliament beyond doubt.'.....isnt that a contradiction in terms....surely if the supremacy of parliament is beyond doubt,then they should be involved in the decision to quit the EU,not the other way round.....does this mean that parliament will have the final decision to trigger Article 50?
KudosDave

 

[anotherkiwi]

why we should be out of the EU for a while.

http://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article/2014/06/05/amis-anglais-sortez-de-l-union-europeenne-mais-ne-la-faites-pas-mourir_4431399_3232.html

Excellent article, merci @trex !

 

[oldgroaner]

Is this really all that has been achieved since the Referendum?

A Shopping list?

1. to build a national consensus around the UK's position
2. to put the national interest first and act in good faith to EU partners
3. where possible, to minimise any uncertainty
4. to leave the EU and put the sovereignty of this Parliament beyond doubt.

Lets look at those one at a time

1. National Consensus? how do you do that with half the nation at least opposed to the idea of Brexit
2. We have already destroyed the good faith of EU partners, and just what is the "National interest" Animal, vegetable or mineral? give us a clue.
3. Minimise any uncertainty? sorry I'm laughing he cannot be serious! he has said nothing cogent to what they intend to do
4. Sovereignty of Parliament, when acting on an Advisory only referendum and denying Parliament the right to vote on Article 50? He cannot be serious.

Davis is like a Mythical Australian Animal
The Duck Billed Platitude

Sorry but Parliament should get off it's collective backside and have a vote of no confidence in this administration,before more harm is done.

 

[oldgroaner]

Davis's speech must go down as a disaster for his cause, it didn't even make the front page in the Telegraph, and the best the express could come up with was this
NO MEANS NO: Brexit boss David Davis rubbishes chance of second EU Referendum
THE bastion of the Brexit vote, David Davis MP, has rubbished the possibility of Britain being dragged into a second EU Referendum.
What happened to the big revelations on strategy?
Ever helpful I posted this reader comment
"
After a speech that effectively said we don't really want anything from the EU, why not invoke Article 50 TODAY.
You've wasted enough time already, get on with it."

And in the Daily Mail
No second vote to block Brexit, David Davis warns MPs: Minister attacks 'anti-democratic' calls for another referendum

But this was "another referendum" wasn't it?
Never in it's long history has this country had as pathetic a Government as it has now.

 

[oldgroaner]

Radio 5 has joined the pro Brexit debate with their poll saying two thirds of those polled are optimistic about Brexit and the future.

Odd that so many could now have changed their views, despite having no logical reason to do so,unless of course they regard us leaving the EU as inevitable and rather than be apathetic are putting a brave face on their fears.

Now more than ever we need article 50 to be initiated, as clearly the three stooges will be no nearer having a plan in ten years time.
For good or ill the inevitable experiment must be made as soon as possible, for while we do nothing, inevitably the EU will be finding ways to undermine the damage we can do to them, and finding alternative sources for the goods and services we offer.

 

[trex]

no, we need to delay article 50. The poll may be correct, two thirds believe in a bright future now, people like a change of political landscape, but maybe the same two thirds won't in 6 month time when the inflation bites become undeniable. Then parliament will have to debate what brexit is for.

 

[trex]

 

[oldtom]

Radio 5 has joined the pro Brexit debate with their poll saying two thirds of those polled are optimistic about Brexit and the future.

Odd that so many could now have changed their views, despite having no logical reason to do so,unless of course they regard us leaving the EU as inevitable and rather than be apathetic are putting a brave face on their fears.

Joseph Goebbels would be immensely proud that his strategies are still being used today by a fascist government. This was his take on what we are now witnessing:

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

Does anyone still believe the BBC presents unbiased news to a muddled public? 90% of media available to the people is skewed in order to ensure the message from Conservative central office is the only news in town!

I thought television coverage yesterday was hugely embarrassing. Watching Mrs May's attempt at presenting her case had me squirming every bit as much as watching David Davies putting across no message at all, but in strident, blustering tone.

As for the Prime Minister, even Farage has admitted he is worried by Mrs May's thoughts on how to manage immigration. What a complete and utter shambles!

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

no, we need to delay article 50. The poll may be correct, two thirds believe in a bright future now, people like a change of political landscape, but maybe the same two thirds won't in 6 month time when the inflation bites become undeniable. Then parliament will have to debate what brexit is for.

Inflation will not suffice to energise public opinion,as the Government and papers will simply lay the blame at the door of the "wicked and vengeful EU"
It will take real hardship to get through to the people, and even then they are unlikely to react positively.
This will be a long haul.

 

[oldgroaner]

The Telegraph are up beat
"
Japan's threat to cut investment in the UK would hurt - but is unlikely to come true

Sounds more like a promise than a threat to me!

 

[anotherkiwi]

Sounds more like a promise than a threat to me!

Or economic reality. The Japanese aren't into much into threatening either but you wouldn't expect a journalist to know much about culture in other countries would you...

 

[oldgroaner]

Or economic reality. The Japanese aren't into much into threatening either but you wouldn't expect a journalist to know much about culture in other countries would you...

And who was the biggest Hack of all time?
Why Boris of course!

 

[anotherkiwi]

It is because he knows sweet f.a. (football association...) about other cultures that he was chosen for foreign relations.

The first time I saw him on TV I thought he was a new comic taking up the old Monty Python routine: silly hair, silly talk etc. But no! He was running for Mayor of London, how strange...

 

[oldgroaner]

Good old Davis, he has overstepped the mark just as Boris is so fnd of doing
"
David Davis’s claim that it is “very improbable” Britain will stay in the EU single market is “his opinion” – and not policy, Downing Street has said.

The Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union on Monday told the House of Commons that if border controls were not allowed within the single market the UK would most likely leave it.

On Tuesday a Number 10 spokesperson however distanced the Prime Minister from the comments
Asked whether Mr Davis was speaking for the Government, the Downing Street spokesperson said it was the minister’s opinion and that there were “differing views” on the subject.

“Saying something is improbable or probable I don’t think is necessarily policy,” she said."

How can anyone trust this man to go into a negotiation and not let his mouth run away with him?
He is as bad as Boris!
It looks very much like Mrs May is losing or has lost control of these three Brexiteers.

 

[trex]

the three brexiteers have always been looking out for themselves. Mrs May walks a tightrope, trying to convince foreigners that the UK is 'still' open for business while the same foreigners think we are fools to leave the Single Market. UBS has just announced they'll cut 1,500 jobs when brexit happens. I reckon the mood of the 60% would change in 6 months.

 

[oldgroaner]

"No free trade deal until Brexit settled, says Australian minister
Australia’s trade minister has told the UK that any post-Brexit trade deal between the nations will have to wait for his country to complete parallel negotiations with the European Union."
And the negotiations with the EU are under way, so we will be faced with having to undercut the terms that 27 nations can offer?

Not bothering to try would be the smart move here.

 

[oldgroaner]

the three brexiteers have always been looking out for themselves. Mrs May walks a tightrope, trying to convince foreigners that the UK is 'still' open for business while the same foreigners think we are fools to leave the Single Market. UBS has just announced they'll cut 1,500 jobs when brexit happens. I reckon the mood of the 60% would change in 6 months.

The problem is there is no means to change this chaotic situation, is there?