Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Yes, morally it does, but for the consumer on the end of the chain, it makes little difference. In our system we foot the bills.
Corporation tax could be replaced by a tax at source on outgoing products or services, like advance VAT without any claim back, but still it ends up on what we pay.
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True, but my argument wasn't ethically based. We the consumers pay the bills no matter which way these matters are organised.
The morality of company behaviour is very different of course, but morality is difficult to legislate for.
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Indeed, I've long been arguing that we need to aim for a lower standard of living to get to living within our means.
A very effective way to achieve that is with large scale immigration bringing in lower cost workers, thus depressing market wage rates.
We are already on the right lines with few incomes rising and some falling, but we must maintain present immigration levels to succeed.
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I quite agree the consumer foots the bill for the amount of Tax Apple have dodged, or as in the Irish case simply does without services that the money would have bought.
And let's face it profit margins on Apple products are so high they have no need to extort income from tax sweeteners, do they?
I don't think reducing the working wage and living conditions to those of a Chinese slave labourer is anything other than a 19th Century answer, and it won't be well received by the Brexit voters who were expecting "more jobs and more pay!"
Frankly a lower standard of living is already being experienced by a third of working people, who dip in and out of poverty, and no way am I in favour of that.
If you want to personally aim for a lower standard of living, you have my blessing to do so, but don't expect much in the way of company.
But what taxation system ensures all pay their fair dues in cash or kind? To date it's been beyond human wit to devise any that works, short of a more draconian approach as Shemozzle has observed earlier.
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Clearly I'm not saying that or being selective, merely that overall as a society we need to live within our means. That's not a 19th century answer, it's just commonsense.
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That in no way excuses Governments making "Special Tax terms" with any company over and above that extended to all others, is it?
Artificially keeping the population poor is not a modern scientific approach to the problem, as Slavery is the final stage along that path.
It will solve the balance of payment, but only until the public rise in revolution.
We need in fact to prevent the flow of money into foreign hands , reinvestment in a Modern Industrial Society, and properly paid jobs that provide a proper return from taxation, making the nation viable.
The problem quite frankly is preventing the rich behaving like the parasites on society that they actually always have been, and making them responsibly invest in the country that they prey upon.
It won't happen will it? so the choice that has been in operation for the last generation is to buy peace from a sullen public with support payments.
And even that has worn thin as these have been under attack, and people felt the pinch, to the point of the vote for Brexit, which as most people discern was anger against the Government, on the basis if they want the EU it can't be for our benefit.
This should be taken as a warning by the Government, further Austerity by whatever name will result in real civil unrest, and Brexit had better NOT reduce living standards, or there will be very big trouble indeed.
Which brings us back around to the rich and powerful skipping out on tax. Tax is just a means of redistributing wealth. There is plenty of wealth it just isn't distributed in a way that would mean living within means. Do you really need that second 110 m yacht with a deck covered in half naked supermodels?
morality is difficult to legislate for when one is being legislated by a cabal of self interested politicians funded by big business. I kidnof agree with you inasmuch as i dont see that changeing. I like Corbyn, a lot. I'd vote for him and in a parralel world, with an electorate with enough political will he could have changed things. i know - moreso in the aftermath of the brexit vote with, in my view all of its ugly, xenophobic farage/le penn type right wing overtones - that he has a snow ball's chance in hell of ever becoming prime minister in a country like britain. that's very unfortunate, mainly for the british, who i think will therefore not escape from the cabal for a very long time.
Austerity for who? Reducing wages by 10-20% for people who are already having difficulty making ends meet was never austerity for 100% of the population. My Example is Spain (Greece is an atypical basket case) where real wages have gone down that much. And there has never been so many new millionaires since the beginning of the crisis. To me that indicates that something is broken somewhere.
Either we decide to live in society (the Scandinavians seem to do that quite well) or well fall into anarchy because that is what poverty eventually leads to. You don't have food then you go where there is some and you take it...
i worked in a hospital in africa, in - per capita - the second poorest country in the world. 40 to 60% of the population was permmanently unemployed ,living a subsistence life, of sorts. Crime was spectacular. Not in an imperosnal third perosn sense. Directly, the three or so local shopping malls experienced a heist every weeknd on a rotation basis. I deliberately owned a ten year old car. After it had been broken into three times and some of its windows left broken, it was left in peace. Other than not going out at night, or to the beach, or going to guarded resorts over weekends and having a few german shepherds there wasnt anything one could do. The thing i realised is that a collapse into anarchy isnt a catalyst for change. Politics becomes if anything more corrupt. A peaceful democratic shared society isnt a natural imperative - i think it got created post world war two in europe with considerable politcial will. I can easilly imagine it dissapearing without remedy if teh current nationalist/right wing movements take root.
some may call it draconian, but i think the nordic solution of very high taxes and equally high quality public services and so living standards is good
Exactly what I meant in my earlier comment on that subject. But until we successfully answer that problem, we'll need compromises to survive.
The Swedes have achieved something approaching the ideal, but that doesn't appear to have been due to a specific system we could copy. Perhaps it's more due to their national character that they've achieved more equality, a character very different from so many in our society.
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Just when you thought it couldn't get worse!
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Dishonest bankers threaten new financial crisis says Bank of England Governor Mark Carney
‘The incidence of financial sector misconduct has risen to a level that has the potential to create systemic risks by undermining trust in both financial institutions and markets,’ Mr Carney has told the G20
Corrupt bankers represent a threat not only to those they directly rip off but also potentially the entire global financial system, the Governor of the Bank of England has warned.
And the view from "Cloud Cuckoo Land?"
The message conflicts with the view of the new CBI head, Carolyn Fairbairn, who this week said it was time for banks to be removed from “the naughty step” by regulators in the wake of the Brexit vote and that “this is a time for real confidence in what we’re good at”.
In other words don't worry about Brexit, we will Swindle enough to make it work?
Thank heavens for those reassuring words. The Bankers are, as she points out very good at what they do, though party poopers might nit pick about most of those things actually being antisocial, illegal and dangerous.
(and occasionally go catastrophically wrong!)
Welcome to the Financial version of the "Anthropocene Age"
Where not only are humans destroying the environment of the planet, but human society in the cause of greed.(but that's just icing on the cake)
The Ghastly reality is that these financial modern day pirates are all that we have in the way of means to keep our country even marginally viable.
Deregulating the Banks would be as good a decision as Lincoln's to go to the Opera.
May the Force be with us or should that be the "Farce"?
"
Dishonest bankers threaten new financial crisis says Bank of England Governor Mark Carney
‘The incidence of financial sector misconduct has risen to a level that has the potential to create systemic risks by undermining trust in both financial institutions and markets,’ Mr Carney has told the G20
Corrupt bankers represent a threat not only to those they directly rip off but also potentially the entire global financial system, the Governor of the Bank of England has warned.
And the view from "Cloud Cuckoo Land?"
The message conflicts with the view of the new CBI head, Carolyn Fairbairn, who this week said it was time for banks to be removed from “the naughty step” by regulators in the wake of the Brexit vote and that “this is a time for real confidence in what we’re good at”.
In other words don't worry about Brexit, we will Swindle enough to make it work?
Thank heavens for those reassuring words. The Bankers are, as she points out very good at what they do, though party poopers might nit pick about most of those things actually being antisocial, illegal and dangerous.
(and occasionally go catastrophically wrong!)
Welcome to the Financial version of the "Anthropocene Age"
Where not only are humans destroying the environment of the planet, but human society in the cause of greed.(but that's just icing on the cake)
The Ghastly reality is that these financial modern day pirates are all that we have in the way of means to keep our country even marginally viable.
Deregulating the Banks would be as good a decision as Lincoln's to go to the Opera.
May the Force be with us or should that be the "Farce"?
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Daily Express Idiocy of the Day.
"
HANDS OFF OUR BUSINESSES: Calais mayor told GO HOME as she arrives in Kent to woo traders"
KENT traders and leaders are preparing to give the Mayor of Calais a piece of their minds as she arrives in the country to try and steal businesses in a post-Brexit fallout.
Natacha Bouchart is descending in Kent on the charm offensive today, and will speak in Ashford to offer UK businesses the chance to move to Calais and keep ties with the European Union (EU) even after Brexit.
But she will be met with immeasurable fury from the countless Kent traders who resoundly voted to leave the EU, and those who even face daily struggles as they attempt to cross the Channel under attack from Calais Jungle migrants.
Geoff Champs, who runs Champs Bakery in Whitstable, said: “Our country will be fine, we do not need France and Germany, there are plenty of other countries in the world that we can trade with.
“The mayor can come over here but we are not that silly, we will not fall for it, it is rubbish.
Reminiscent of the old Greek proverb
"Those who the Gods would destroy
They first make Mad."
So now according to the Express, Fury greets anyone from the EU willing to do business with us?
Which enemy of the state does the Daily Express serve with propaganda like this?
"
HANDS OFF OUR BUSINESSES: Calais mayor told GO HOME as she arrives in Kent to woo traders"
KENT traders and leaders are preparing to give the Mayor of Calais a piece of their minds as she arrives in the country to try and steal businesses in a post-Brexit fallout.
Natacha Bouchart is descending in Kent on the charm offensive today, and will speak in Ashford to offer UK businesses the chance to move to Calais and keep ties with the European Union (EU) even after Brexit.
But she will be met with immeasurable fury from the countless Kent traders who resoundly voted to leave the EU, and those who even face daily struggles as they attempt to cross the Channel under attack from Calais Jungle migrants.
Geoff Champs, who runs Champs Bakery in Whitstable, said: “Our country will be fine, we do not need France and Germany, there are plenty of other countries in the world that we can trade with.
“The mayor can come over here but we are not that silly, we will not fall for it, it is rubbish.
Reminiscent of the old Greek proverb
"Those who the Gods would destroy
They first make Mad."
So now according to the Express, Fury greets anyone from the EU willing to do business with us?
Which enemy of the state does the Daily Express serve with propaganda like this?