Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

relax have a cup of tea safe from all those nasty people who didn't understand the greatness of it all...

Is Great not pefectly acceptable for the largest of the British Isles? That is, as a purely physical geography term.

That's the point, it was incorrect from the beginning, inviting misunderstanding as reflecting status.

Since the addition was simply to reflect the greater area due to the addition of Scotland to the union, the correct new title should have been Greater Britain, as in Greater London for example. That would not be misunderstood in the way most in this country, including many politicians, seem to understand Great meaning status.
.

 

[anotherkiwi]

That's the point, it was incorrect from the beginning, inviting misunderstanding as reflecting status.

Since the addition was simply to reflect the greater area due to the addition of Scotland to the union, the correct new title should have been Greater Britain, as in Greater London for example. That would not be misunderstood in the way most in this country, including many politicians, seem to understand Great meaning status.
.

After brexit there will be a new name proposed: Greatest Britain Ever...

 

[oldtom]

This is from the people at 'BrexitExposed':

TAKING BACK CONTROL Is becoming a bigger joke by the day.

We could say to the Leavers ‘we told you so’. (We did).

Every country we’ve ever affronted or upset can and - judging by this - will block us at the WTO as we move to gain independent access to trade.

Argentina? Russia? Spain? Anyone in the EU? No, this time it’s little Moldova.

Good luck, Leavers. You clearly knew what you voted for; moving from the strength of the top table of the EU to an organisation where tiny countries you’ve probably never even heard of have a veto against us.

To the rest of us, it looks like ignorant madness.



The fuller story can be found on this link:

u-s-is-said-to-stall-u-k-bid-to-stay-in-1-7-trillion-market

Tom

 

[oldtom]

This from Robert Peston just in case you are not up to speed with the 'Brexit' fiasco:

I am very sorry to do this to you, but it turns out that the incendiary extension to the UK’s period as a non-voting member of the EU - the mooted extra months in “transition” - isn’t really an extension.

It is an “option” on an extension, the right to have an extension.

Yes you guessed it: what we are talking about is another flipping BACKSTOP.

And yes I too am losing the will to live as these Brexit talks descend from giant geopolitics to nightmarish logical puzzles.

Here is the background.

The EU cannot - it insists - agree our preferred version of the Northern Ireland backstop as part of the Article 50 Withdrawal Agreement.

And the reason for this, I am told, is that the scope of Article 50 allows only for a Northern Ireland specific backstop, not May’s preferred UK-wide one.

AND YES, I AM AS PUZZLED AS YOU ABOUT WHY THIS SHOULD BE.

But I am told Robbins, Raab and May have accepted it as a fair accompli. So that is that.

And the related problem with May’s backstop - which would keep the whole UK in an EU customs arrangement temporarily rather than just NI in the customs union - is that it requires a change to EU treaties.

Which would be time consuming and complicated.

So there is a risk it would not be agreed and formalised even by the end of 2020, when the UK’s sojourn as a non-voting EU member, in transition, is scheduled to end.

Hence the need for a POSSIBLE extension - up to a maximum of a year - to finalise May’s backstop and to obviate the need for the EU’s proposed backstop.

So far, so bloomin’ mind boggling.

Pity the poor PM who had to moot this to 27 EU leaders in a 15 minute discourse last night, before their turbot arrived.

But here is where the associated uncertainties may drive many of you into a panic attack, especially if you are a Tory Brexiter.

First, whatever backstop is finally agreed will not be time limited. Ireland’s Europe minister Helen McEntee confirmed that on my show last night.

So any Brexit deal May agrees will allow for the possibility that the UK is permanently in an arrangement very like being in the customs union, and which would make it impossible to do free trade deals.

Second, in a business deal options like the one May is considering normally cost money. So will the EU charge the UK simply for the option of possibly extending the transition? It would be odd and out of character if they didn’t ask for cash up front. But Brexiters would go bonkers if we hand over more money.

Third, it is highly likely the EU’s Northern Ireland only solution will also be written into the Withdrawal Agreement, just in case it proved impossible - even with the extension of transition - to secure the treaty change to allow for May’s preferred backstop.

So here we are at the very essence of EU Brexit juridical insanity, discussing the merits and demerits of including in the Withdrawal Agreement a backstop to the backstop to the backstop.

A triple backstop no less. Goal!!!!!!!!!

Or to put it another way, the Withdrawal Agreement is all about the kind of Byzantine complexity that makes it impossible for mere mortals to know what it actually implies for the integrity of the United Kingdom.

Does that revelation make it more or less likely that Tory Brexiters will imminently launch a coup to try and oust May - by triggering the fateful no-confidence vote?

I’ve just asked them. They are hopping mad. These are dangerous days for the PM.

Tom

 

[oldtom]

Is there any comparison to be made here?



Mmm……..isn't there something scheduled to occur in January 2019, in which some tax cheats incredibly rich members of the royal family, the aristocracy and members of the tory party British society have a vested interest?

Vested interest

noun1
a personal reason for involvement in an undertaking or situation, especially an expectation of financial or other gain: banks have a vested interest in the growth of their customers. • a person or group with a particular reason for involvement in an undertaking or situation: the problem is that the authorities are a vested interest.

2 Law
an interest (usually in land or money held in trust) recognised as belonging to aparticular person.

Tom

 

[Woosh]

this picture sums up UK's current brexit strategy:
(just wait until JRM shows up).

https://www.economist.com/britain/2018/10/20/a-brexit-deal-is-closer-in-brussels-than-in-westminster

 

[tillson]

it's just an increased bribe paid to the EU to maintain frictionless trade until Labour wins the next GE then brexit will be Labour's problem.

God help all of us if that bunch of worker hating champagne socialists gain power. Brexit will be a minor issue by comparison.

 

[oldtom]

This is the latest from the Evening Standard:

Brexit latest: Polls show Brits increasingly believe voting to leave was wrong in hindsight.

brits-believe-voting-for-brexit-was-wrong-in-hindsight-poll-shows-a3963891.html

Tom

 

[Woosh]

This is the latest from the Evening Standard:

Brexit latest: Polls show Brits increasingly believe voting to leave was wrong in hindsight.


Tom

although it comes as no surprise because everyone can see that the brexiteers have been trying to wriggle out of their predictions and promises, that must have made a few people to think again if they are asked to vote a second time.
there is still a huge core 40+% who want brexit.

 

[oldgroaner]

God help all of us if that bunch of worker hating champagne socialists gain power. Brexit will be a minor issue by comparison.

Care to explain why? how can they be worse than the present lot?

 

[oldtom]

History has a habit of repeating itself and there are many similarities around the world today with the early to mid-20th century, particularly the re-emergence of fascism in the UK, the USA, Hungary, Italy and several other places.

It is clear that large numbers of the 'leave' voters are full of admiration for the policies of President Trump and are adamant that they don't want foreigners living in the UK, calling for stringent immigration controls and many even demanding that repatriation of those settled here should be introduced.

Those who feel that way really ought to take a long hard look at themselves and consider this:



Hitler’s Holocaust Started With Death Of One Journalist In 1932. Hitler Called Journalists “The Lying Press”. President Trump Has Called Journalists “The Lying Press” and “Enemies of the People”


2 Weeks Ago An American Journalist Had His Fingers Cut Off One By One, Then His Arms Were Cut Off, Then His Legs. All While He Was Alive. His Head Was Then Cut Off By Saudi Killers Wearing Headphones Who Listened to Music While They Butchered Him


President Trump Said: “Not An American Citizen, None Of Our Business” and “Saudi Prince Denied It Strongly. He is Innocent”.

To those who support 'Brexit' and the fascists who purveyed the idea to them, I have this to say, 'Be careful what you wish for!'

Tom

 

[oldtom]

LBC's James O'Brien has this to say:

THERE IS NO GOOD BREXIT.

There’s only a much worse situation ahead, whatever Theresa May does - and it’s time the ignorant, lying Leavers own up and admit what is obvious to everyone else.

You were - and still are - responsible, Leavers. Now fix it. Cancel Article 50, triggered by you without a plan after a non-legally binding advisory referendum.

Theresa May has only two Brexit options: a disastrous no-deal or a worse deal than we currently have.

He's right of course and it is lunacy to continue with the nonsensical pretence of negotiations in Brussels when it is obvious to all right-thinking people that we are making a huge mistake.

Tom

 

[oldtom]

While the nation is distracted by the shenanigans in Brussels and at tory HQ, the Police Service is being further privatised. Anyone who disagrees that G4S and SERCO are suitable companies to provide the public with the policing it deserves may wish to consider signing the petition I just signed which might prevent this appalling waste of taxpayers' money.

We need more police officers, boots on the ground police officers, not a bunch of amateurs hired by two extremely incompetent companies, only interested in making a profit and paying dividends to people who bank offshore.

Here is the link:

stop-tories-giving-g4s-serco-the-power-to-arrest

Tom

 

[Kudoscycles]

I am starting to think that May will be voted down by the Tories...that stupid idea of extending the transition has annoyed both the ERG and mainstream moderate Tories,she would lose a no confidence vote.
Maybe Rees-Mogg would be a good idea for her replacement,I hate his politics but as PM the EU would realise that no deal is his preferred option so the EU would have to try to avoid no deal and start giving some compromises to avoid no deal.
May is just too weak and too indecisive to continue.
Looks like we are going two ways....no deal or scrapping Brexit,but I just don’t see how the latter can be achieved.
Question Time tonight should be interesting.
KudosDave

 

[Woosh]

Maybe Rees-Mogg would be a good idea for her replacement,I hate his politics but as PM the EU would realise that no deal is his preferred option so the EU would have to try to avoid no deal and start giving some compromises to avoid no deal.

the brexit deal is a cup of poison because nobody can carry it out without a sizeable majority in the HoC to overcome not only the opposition parties but also their own rebels.
If he starts a leadership contest and wins it, there is no way he can find enough support to establish a working majority in parliament. The DUP is pro-brexit but does not want a border in the Island of Ireland so will vote down any deal that does not guarantee no border.
I don't think the EU is bluffing. As trade partner, the EU can lose the UK but the UK can't lose the EU. As for money, the EU works with their own credit card anyway. They don't need UK's money immediately, the ECB can always print a little more to compensate.

 

[Kudoscycles]

There is a need for a Trump or Thatcher now. May is a Libran,they are nice people but terribly indecisive and want to keep everyone happy,the EU realise May’s vulnerability and are manipulating her.
Trump would be selfish and ignore everything other than his goal....that is very dangerous,he would cure the Irish problem by ignoring it. But the EU would then be forced to evolve a deal that avoids the Irish problem,it would become their problem as much as our problem.
Brexit will go to extremes now,either a people’s vote which I think will be remain or crash out with no deal and both the U.K. and EU would have to panic a solution to make important matters work.
May has to go.
KudosDave

 

[oldgroaner]

There is a need for a Trump or Thatcher now. May is a Libran,they are nice people but terribly indecisive and want to keep everyone happy,the EU realise May’s vulnerability and are manipulating her.
Trump would be selfish and ignore everything other than his goal....that is very dangerous,he would cure the Irish problem by ignoring it. But the EU would then be forced to evolve a deal that avoids the Irish problem,it would become their problem as much as our problem.
Brexit will go to extremes now,either a people’s vote which I think will be remain or crash out with no deal and both the U.K. and EU would have to panic a solution to make important matters work.
May has to go.
KudosDave

There is no situation conceivable that makes a Fascist Demagogue a wise choice.
In the last century three nations took that course ,and the two main ones only expunged the curse after becoming smoking ruins, and it took Spain a full generation to rid itself of the blight.

As a method of suicide it can only by compared with deliberate self exposure to a lethal level dose of Radiation poisoning.

The EU would in any case treat him like the imbecile he is, ensuring whatever he wanted never happened.

There is merit in the notion that causing a panic might help, but that has done be done in this country, as the EU will not fall for that.

This is shades of the Harry Carpenter interview of Brian London after the fight with Clay or was it Ali back then?

London: "I had him worried in the third round."
Carpenter: (Astonished) "How on Earth did you think that???"
London: "He thought he'd killed me!"

 

[Woosh]

if TM goes, the ensuing leadership election will cause much chaos and split properly the conservative party. Whoever wins that contest won't be any more able than TM to deliver a brexit deal. The EU's offers are there since two years ago, Canada, Turkey, EFTA or reverse brexit. The minimum level for a NI solution is Turkey. There is no harm in extending the transition, that's the best offer on the table and she is going to take it when she gets enough support from the moderate MPs. The only conservative MPs opposing extending the transition are the ERG, 70 + 12.

 

[oldgroaner]

In the Express; Jackass is at it again

"
"We’ll be out of the European Union, that’s the key. You can’t have everything the same as being in the European Union.

"When you’ve left it’s fancy land, that’s the magical thinking people like Michel Barnier have talked about. There will be differences but the advantages are we have lower cost from the rest of the world and we will not unilaterally increase costs on goods coming from the European Union. That would be folly."

Interesting that somehow he accepts that we will lose the advantage of EU membership, but glides past that to fantasise that we will have lower costs from the rest of the world, without making even the slightest effort to qualify that, which amounts to an admission that we will become a dumping ground for Chinese and Far eastern goods that will spell doom for domestic manufacturers.

The man is a dangerous juvenile Con artist.
Our problem is that this will go down well with the usual level of cognisance of Brexit supporters.

You can fool all of the people some of the time
And Brexit Voters all of the time

 

[oyster]

we will become a dumping ground for Chinese and Far eastern goods

Only for as long as we can afford even them.