She may as well tell the truth.. We may be thick but we are not total eejits. We knew that the statement last christmas was intended to placate and buy time...
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
how is the view from the South?
which is better? a hard border that is mostly automated (like Estonia) or a customs border in the Irish Sea (customs officers working on the ferries)?
Forget The Chequers plan for one moment. Bang on cue, rumour suggests that Harry has blown his beans up Meghan’s chuff and now we have “Royal Baby” on the way. For our Prime Minister, this is a welcome sideshow which is guaranteed divert attention away from her unbroken run of miscalculation, backing the wrong horse and conceiving stupid ideas.
Without any doubt, customs working on the ships or at the ports of holyhead etc. . But you must realise the entire border area including access to scotlands isles is totally porous. A fast boat would be in the inner hebrides from Donegal in maybe two hours.
interesting opinion in the Guardian:
QUOTE:
May consequently has two tasks. First, she must determine whether her government would survive opposition to an effective border in the Irish Sea from the DUP and Commons. But more important, she must decide whether she values the economic integrity of the UK more than the ability to unilaterally change Britain’s tariffs and end migration rights for Polish plumbers.
The EU, for its part, knows it holds all the cards and recognises the danger of giving ground. Its priority is to accommodate Dublin, not London. It also concludes that a government so determined to leave must believe it can look after itself. Brussels has no reason or incentive to make any better offer.
The government has never understood the Brexit process and therefore has always botched it. It expects the EU to treat the UK both as an equally powerful third country, and as a member state still deserving the EU’s protection. It is neither. And so in a battle of red lines, the UK will lose. That is the most brutal lesson of all.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/21/brexit-chequers-salzburg-irish-sea-customs-union
QUOTE:
May consequently has two tasks. First, she must determine whether her government would survive opposition to an effective border in the Irish Sea from the DUP and Commons. But more important, she must decide whether she values the economic integrity of the UK more than the ability to unilaterally change Britain’s tariffs and end migration rights for Polish plumbers.
The EU, for its part, knows it holds all the cards and recognises the danger of giving ground. Its priority is to accommodate Dublin, not London. It also concludes that a government so determined to leave must believe it can look after itself. Brussels has no reason or incentive to make any better offer.
The government has never understood the Brexit process and therefore has always botched it. It expects the EU to treat the UK both as an equally powerful third country, and as a member state still deserving the EU’s protection. It is neither. And so in a battle of red lines, the UK will lose. That is the most brutal lesson of all.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/21/brexit-chequers-salzburg-irish-sea-customs-union
A clear succinct article. See how easy it is to write when one is telling the truth. At no stage has the EU sought to humiliate the UK
But only the first in a series of brutal lessons to be learnt.
It will not take long before we start to lose manufacturing for the EU market. The speed with which that happens will depend to some extent on the barriers that appear, but it will inevitably be a continuously increasing loss as the EU countries start to favour their own. We currently see that with the anti-dumping tariffs on Chinese e-bikes to protect the EU manufacturers, and Brexit places us with China on the outside.
And together with that will be the experience of just how hard it will be to gain replacement markets elsewhere in the world with the limited range of things we can have on offer, our comparatively expensive economy and our geographic position.
I'm only glad that I am the age that I am and well insulated, since it means I won't suffer unduly. But I feel sorry for all those who will suffer the repeat of our post WW2 decline, even the Brexiters who were so misled by lies.
However I still cling to the faint hope that parliament will come to it's senses sufficiently to stop the Brexit process with a new referendum on the Brexit outcome.
.
Interesting news article which includes the sentence: Legally speaking, it can be like Brexit was all just a bad dream.
Today’s ruling shows the triggering of article 50 can be reversed
Jolyon Maugham
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/21/triggering-article-50-reversed-european-court-justice-brexit-bad-dream
Today’s ruling shows the triggering of article 50 can be reversed
Jolyon Maugham
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/21/triggering-article-50-reversed-european-court-justice-brexit-bad-dream
Do they use artificial insemination to be just on time like that?
Or does the PM ring up and place an order with the queen? "Liz I'm in a bit of a bind, can the kids help out again please?"
That is a misleading article title. Nothing has been shown, a group of people,and I wish them well,are constructing an argument .
.. it is still in the forlorn hope catagory. .. Were the UK ,not the Scots , to request the return of the article 50 document, and the 27 agreed to it... No problem!. Done and dusted.
But if anyone of the 27 objected and said no. ..There is a problem. . it is this that the Scots want teased out. . Can the ECJ rule against the clear wording of an international treaty, even if it is in the interests of 24 or so member states?. And there is yet another problem, there is no suggestion that the UK parliament has any interest in doing so.
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As anticipated long ago May is now trying to win Kudos pretending to be tough when the non starter "Chequers plan" was officially rejected.
She was told a month ago this was the case by the EU, but needs to kid parliament and the public here she was doing something.
Whatever makes her imagine a demand for "respect" will resonate with the EU after her and our behaviour of reneging on a previous commitment because of ERG pressure?
And even less likely to appeal to the Brexit Voters, who are by now convinced a change of Government will get them the no deal any of them think they want, even if they don't know why, and it wasn't what they were offered to vote for in the Referendum.
Next comes the brinkmanship that leads to selling what the EU offer to the British public, it has every chance of success, for after all, if you can sell Brexit, you can sell ice to Eskimos
A reader's comment in the Daily Mail sums up at least one of many possible reactions
"
route66, London, United Kingdom, 5 minutes ago
The EU laid out the options? We are the United Kingdom sir, not a collection of tin pot countries calling themselves the EU! We are the cradle of modern democracy, we won TWO WORLD WARS! We accept options from absolutely nobody.
Ignoring the contributors appalling lack of historical knowledge , he appears to be correct! we are not the EU, can't deal with a situation where the other side doesn't agree to accede to our lies and threats for something we, not they, need and are demanding.
She was told a month ago this was the case by the EU, but needs to kid parliament and the public here she was doing something.
Whatever makes her imagine a demand for "respect" will resonate with the EU after her and our behaviour of reneging on a previous commitment because of ERG pressure?
And even less likely to appeal to the Brexit Voters, who are by now convinced a change of Government will get them the no deal any of them think they want, even if they don't know why, and it wasn't what they were offered to vote for in the Referendum.
Next comes the brinkmanship that leads to selling what the EU offer to the British public, it has every chance of success, for after all, if you can sell Brexit, you can sell ice to Eskimos
A reader's comment in the Daily Mail sums up at least one of many possible reactions
"
route66, London, United Kingdom, 5 minutes ago
The EU laid out the options? We are the United Kingdom sir, not a collection of tin pot countries calling themselves the EU! We are the cradle of modern democracy, we won TWO WORLD WARS! We accept options from absolutely nobody.
Ignoring the contributors appalling lack of historical knowledge , he appears to be correct! we are not the EU, can't deal with a situation where the other side doesn't agree to accede to our lies and threats for something we, not they, need and are demanding.
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The Telegraph and Daily Mail are doing their bit just in case of a snap election
"
‘He’s s**t SCARED’ - Jeremy Corbyn’s team fear he will be SUSPENDED from Parliament
LABOUR leader Jeremy Corbyn and his closest aides are reportedly terrified he will be suspended from Parliament for failing to register several historic overseas trips, and are making preparations to stop deputy leader Tom Watson asserting control in his absence."
You have to wonder how many man hours the papers spend on digging dirt to support an agenda rather than reporting real news.
They probably dug, or made this up years ago and have a list of attacks ready for any occasion when Tory power is threatened.
As they clearly do right now.
In fairness it would be nice to see what they would find if they tried investigating all politicians at Westminster!
"
‘He’s s**t SCARED’ - Jeremy Corbyn’s team fear he will be SUSPENDED from Parliament
LABOUR leader Jeremy Corbyn and his closest aides are reportedly terrified he will be suspended from Parliament for failing to register several historic overseas trips, and are making preparations to stop deputy leader Tom Watson asserting control in his absence."
You have to wonder how many man hours the papers spend on digging dirt to support an agenda rather than reporting real news.
They probably dug, or made this up years ago and have a list of attacks ready for any occasion when Tory power is threatened.
As they clearly do right now.
In fairness it would be nice to see what they would find if they tried investigating all politicians at Westminster!
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I believe that Royal Protocol dictates that a bank of “Royal Jizz” filled turkey basters are kept ready and primed for such occasions as the one that we currently find ourselves in. The relevant princess is then summoned to the baster bank strong room, lifts up her frock and is then impregnate with the correct Bob Monk. Such is the efficiency of this process, the prince doesn’t even need to be present. He can be attending royal engagements such as skiing, dwarf throwing, beer drinking or shagging a bit on the side.
Of course the turkey baster process is not infallible and some terrible mistakes have been made over the centuries. These have mainly concerned impregnating daughters or sisters with father’s or brother’s dongwater.
WW2 thanks to Russia. (Yes, USA turned up as well, and others - not meaning to dismiss or ignore them. But the scale of Russia's involvement is almost beyond imagining.)
Looking at this post I thought...I hope no one imagines I said that!
Seriously, though, it just shows how deep the ingrained prejudice is with some voters and that they accept ideas without ever verifying them, and have somehow evaded every effort of the state education system.
On second thoughts I should have said accepted without question it's teachings.
I feel pretty sure, flecc like myself can remember seeing a globe marked up in Red and being given the Gospel according the Governent on "Empire Day" at school, reminding us of our God given duty to bring the light of reason and "Democracy" to less fortunate nations who were lucky enough to be enjoying our benign rule and law.
Hard to believe now but truly it happened!