Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
OG
You know full well that of the 6 rights that you mention, 5 of them were in place long before the EU
I had them back in 1960.
I remember Harold Wilson bringing in H+S legislation.
Sensible stuff, not the dotty stuff we have now that prevents the kids at Llanelli running onto the rugby pitch after the last game of the season as their Dads and Granddads did.
As for the right to work anywhere in Europe, what a load of rubbish. Unless you are absolutely fluent in all the languages, no chance.
You know full well that of the 6 rights that you mention, 5 of them were in place long before the EU
I had them back in 1960.
I remember Harold Wilson bringing in H+S legislation.
Sensible stuff, not the dotty stuff we have now that prevents the kids at Llanelli running onto the rugby pitch after the last game of the season as their Dads and Granddads did.
As for the right to work anywhere in Europe, what a load of rubbish. Unless you are absolutely fluent in all the languages, no chance.
Think a lot of stayers read the EU ( especially French) legislation and think things are fine. Had it with trex when he started telling me I could extend permis...well perhaps in theory...you try doing it..same with working in Alps. Daughter is a Ski and Snowboard instructor..fluent French..Worked in Scotland and dry slopes on uk.. No chance in France ...in theory she,s eligible and no doubt a few manage it...but French ) as we,ve seen in Dover / Calais and as I,ve been saying all along simply disregard any legislation they don't like.
We think its carved in stone...its a completely different culture/ attitude...( no insult derf)
Vive la difference!!!
Tillson
On the ignore issue..agree with you to a point but listening/ reading their posts give them an audience. To my mind both have proved their attitude and fixed opinions.staying on ignore for me...
We think its carved in stone...its a completely different culture/ attitude...( no insult derf)
Vive la difference!!!
Tillson
On the ignore issue..agree with you to a point but listening/ reading their posts give them an audience. To my mind both have proved their attitude and fixed opinions.staying on ignore for me...
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No insult taken,I'm one of a swarm of African migrants who invaded UK via Europe w ho just happen to speak French and find the french often equally perplexing. As a complete aside,wouldn't it be fun if Scotland went for a reverse Greenland
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36883257
And England had to start policing the Scottish border for migrants the way Hadrian did?
Yikes,just realised that was a bit of a parapraxis,bringing an international empire into the argument. But the Romans did do a lot for us..
Not so,the Health and Safety Act was introduced in 1974 the year after we joined the EU to bring us into line with the EU norms.
And In 1960 the normal Holidays were banks holidays and a fortnight's main holiday.
Environmental laws? Name one!
limited Working hours? Nonsense!
Workplace protection? Non existent back then.
Come off it, they were definitely not in place before the EU
Any more myths you would like demolished?
I don't ignore you preferring to see the nonsense and sly little digs you still keep rather pointlessly attempting.
And your attitude to the French is somewhat "Anti" for a person who doesn't like racism, strange that, is there another word you prefer?
Pity that's all you have to contribute, just anti French comments and personal attacks. (and hiding behind the ignore button)
How brave, attack people and hide. Sort of Brexit from the thread
Daily Excess (Express) this morning
"
98 per cent say NO to EU deal: Forget talks with Brussels and quit NOW, urges new poll
A NEW Daily Express online poll has revealed that 98 per cent of respondents - 3,548 people - want the historic Brexit vote to be enacted now instead of Britain being embroiled in months or years of talks with Brussels bureaucrats.
By DAVID MADDOX"
Of course it was a "Daily Express" poll, but it seems that the realisation has set in that things are not going according to plan with the Government
"If the EU then decides to impose tariffs then Britain would respond but because the UK has a trade deficit with the EU of almost £24 billion a trade war would be more damaging to European countries especially Germany which could lose its biggest car market."
Actually most of them are currently being made here so Germany wouldn't be that bothered, would it?
More nonsense.
"
98 per cent say NO to EU deal: Forget talks with Brussels and quit NOW, urges new poll
A NEW Daily Express online poll has revealed that 98 per cent of respondents - 3,548 people - want the historic Brexit vote to be enacted now instead of Britain being embroiled in months or years of talks with Brussels bureaucrats.
By DAVID MADDOX"
Of course it was a "Daily Express" poll, but it seems that the realisation has set in that things are not going according to plan with the Government
"If the EU then decides to impose tariffs then Britain would respond but because the UK has a trade deficit with the EU of almost £24 billion a trade war would be more damaging to European countries especially Germany which could lose its biggest car market."
Actually most of them are currently being made here so Germany wouldn't be that bothered, would it?
More nonsense.
have you read Peter Mayle's 'A year in Provence?' it's a pretty good description of French psyche. France is very unionised. French do not like buying goods and services from shops owned by or being served by foreigners, consequently, jobs are offered first to French because of the language and culture. Your daughter should join a trade union first, CGT, CFDT, FO etc her pick. She'll then be completely accepted into the system.
It's a bit like if you want to start a business in France, join the local lodge.
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Actually I can't remember the full details but the first ban on smoking fires in London was around 16'00s as the then King didn't like it.
Please don't take this one example though as refutation of your point
From the Independent
"
Payments from a £3bn European development fund were suspended indefinitely by the UK Government, just days after the vote to leave the EU, The Independent can reveal.
In a move that exposes the almost immediate impact of Brexit on the UK economy, businesses say they have been told they will not now receive money that was due to be paid out under the European Regional Development Fund (ERDF).
The fund, designed to promote economic growth, has to be matched by payments from member states and there was speculation the UK Treasury may be concerned about whether the Government can afford to continue paying its share, particularly if it had to meet any shortfall for schemes which extend into the post-Brexit period.
A letter to the then Chancellor George Osborne from a group of London-based companies, which has been seen by The Independent, appealed for the “pause” to be lifted.
The letter – written by John Spindler, chief executive of non-profit firm Capital Enterprise, and signed by several other company bosses – said £3.7m in funding had been agreed in March 2016 to help provide expert support to more than 600 tech start-ups in the City under a scheme called CASTS.
“Until last week we were on track to sign the full funding agreement in mid-July,” the letter said. “So it was with alarm that we heard … that, because of the referendum result, the Department of Communities and Local Government has notified the GLA [Greater London Authority] to inform Capital Enterprise that ERDF projects like CASTS, were to be put on ‘pause’ for an indefinite period.
“We would urge you to unblock this funding which is vital to the tech community in London. [The referendum] result has created a lot of uncertainty and raised questions for what it means for tech businesses in London.”
It is understood the Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG) and the Mayor of London’s office have also written to the Treasury asking for the suspension of payments to be lifted.
The suspension came into effect when Mr Osborne was Chancellor and whether to lift it will be a key early decision for his successor Philip Hammond to take. The Government is expected to make an announcement on the situation in the next few days.
The current ERDF began in 2014 and is due to run until 2020, by which point it is expected that the UK will have left the EU. The total amount available from the fund was €3.6bn (about £3bn), but about 20 per cent is thought to have been given out already. This means that just under €3bn (about £2.5bn) is left. However these payments must be “supplemented by national public and private funds”.
Mr Spindler said Capital Enterprises, which was set up by universities and others to help small start-up companies grow quickly, had already spent about £50,000 in expectation of getting the £3.7m and had 20 people lined up to start work next month.
He said they would look for new investors in the public or private sector if the money was not forthcoming.
"It will have a big impact on the tech sector," Mr Spindler said of the prospect of losing the funding. "Combined with the investment uncertainty after Brexit, it means the tech sector, which has been one of the drivers of growth, particularly in London, is not going to come grinding to a halt but will significantly slow down."
It was unclear whether all or just some payments from the ERDF have been suspended by the Treasury. But there are increasing signs that the suspension is affecting a large amount, if not all, of the smaller funding schemes that receive ERDF money. On 12 July, the BBC obtained a leaked report showing Greater Manchester was going to miss out on £320m of EU funding, including £176m from the ERDF. However, at the time, the Government insisted there would be "no immediate change" to EU programmes.
On Friday, The Financial Times reported funding for small businesses in the north of England, provided under an ERDF-backed scheme called Jeremie, could be delayed. Jeremie has provided a total of £415m, mainly to small and medium-sized companies, since 2010.
Last week David Gauke, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, told parliament he was unable to guarantee the future of EU funds in a shift from the statement given by a Treasury spokesman to the BBC just days earlier. “We will be making an announcement in the not-too-distant future,” he said. Mr Gauke added: “Let me be absolutely clear — as a Government we remain committed to doing everything we can do to strengthen the Northern Powerhouse, to ensure that the north of England fulfils its full potential.”
Have I understood the implication behind this, that the Government will not meet it's part of matching the payments?
On the grounds of being unable to afford to?
"
Payments from a £3bn European development fund were suspended indefinitely by the UK Government, just days after the vote to leave the EU, The Independent can reveal.
In a move that exposes the almost immediate impact of Brexit on the UK economy, businesses say they have been told they will not now receive money that was due to be paid out under the European Regional Development Fund (ERDF).
The fund, designed to promote economic growth, has to be matched by payments from member states and there was speculation the UK Treasury may be concerned about whether the Government can afford to continue paying its share, particularly if it had to meet any shortfall for schemes which extend into the post-Brexit period.
A letter to the then Chancellor George Osborne from a group of London-based companies, which has been seen by The Independent, appealed for the “pause” to be lifted.
The letter – written by John Spindler, chief executive of non-profit firm Capital Enterprise, and signed by several other company bosses – said £3.7m in funding had been agreed in March 2016 to help provide expert support to more than 600 tech start-ups in the City under a scheme called CASTS.
“Until last week we were on track to sign the full funding agreement in mid-July,” the letter said. “So it was with alarm that we heard … that, because of the referendum result, the Department of Communities and Local Government has notified the GLA [Greater London Authority] to inform Capital Enterprise that ERDF projects like CASTS, were to be put on ‘pause’ for an indefinite period.
“We would urge you to unblock this funding which is vital to the tech community in London. [The referendum] result has created a lot of uncertainty and raised questions for what it means for tech businesses in London.”
It is understood the Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG) and the Mayor of London’s office have also written to the Treasury asking for the suspension of payments to be lifted.
The suspension came into effect when Mr Osborne was Chancellor and whether to lift it will be a key early decision for his successor Philip Hammond to take. The Government is expected to make an announcement on the situation in the next few days.
The current ERDF began in 2014 and is due to run until 2020, by which point it is expected that the UK will have left the EU. The total amount available from the fund was €3.6bn (about £3bn), but about 20 per cent is thought to have been given out already. This means that just under €3bn (about £2.5bn) is left. However these payments must be “supplemented by national public and private funds”.
Mr Spindler said Capital Enterprises, which was set up by universities and others to help small start-up companies grow quickly, had already spent about £50,000 in expectation of getting the £3.7m and had 20 people lined up to start work next month.
He said they would look for new investors in the public or private sector if the money was not forthcoming.
"It will have a big impact on the tech sector," Mr Spindler said of the prospect of losing the funding. "Combined with the investment uncertainty after Brexit, it means the tech sector, which has been one of the drivers of growth, particularly in London, is not going to come grinding to a halt but will significantly slow down."
It was unclear whether all or just some payments from the ERDF have been suspended by the Treasury. But there are increasing signs that the suspension is affecting a large amount, if not all, of the smaller funding schemes that receive ERDF money. On 12 July, the BBC obtained a leaked report showing Greater Manchester was going to miss out on £320m of EU funding, including £176m from the ERDF. However, at the time, the Government insisted there would be "no immediate change" to EU programmes.
On Friday, The Financial Times reported funding for small businesses in the north of England, provided under an ERDF-backed scheme called Jeremie, could be delayed. Jeremie has provided a total of £415m, mainly to small and medium-sized companies, since 2010.
Last week David Gauke, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, told parliament he was unable to guarantee the future of EU funds in a shift from the statement given by a Treasury spokesman to the BBC just days earlier. “We will be making an announcement in the not-too-distant future,” he said. Mr Gauke added: “Let me be absolutely clear — as a Government we remain committed to doing everything we can do to strengthen the Northern Powerhouse, to ensure that the north of England fulfils its full potential.”
Have I understood the implication behind this, that the Government will not meet it's part of matching the payments?
On the grounds of being unable to afford to?
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Well spotted!
He didn't manage to make that one stick, did he? and of course coal was a very new form of fuel in the Londoner's homes.
No doubt the smell was something alien after having wood and charcoal fires!
"This growing shortage of wood manifested itself in a price inflation of astonishing magnitude. The cost of firewood was stable until the 1540s, yet it quadrupled by the 1580s and reached ten times its old level by the 1620s. Charcoal, though rather less seriously affected, followed the same pattern in a six-fold increase by the 1660s.
No wonder there was a sudden change on the smell of the "FUG" over London!
Oh so this freedom of labour movement so cherised by stayers insists certain workers join a union...nonesense again trex. Spouting about stuff you,ve never tried to do. French ski instruction is a virtual closed shop.
No, just tell them Flud sent you, that should get you in!
I know many British people who are working in the French Alps as Ski instructors. We used to distribute a brand of Ski / Snowboard goggle for a number of years so I worked in the Industry and we sponsored lots of Brits abroad because they were a key marketing strategy to get to the people who they guided. Its not easy getting a job over there, but that's exactly how it should be. But its no harder for a Brit than it is a French or indeed any other Nationality to get a job. This article sums it up well.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ski/news/Piste-wars-To-call-the-French-system-anti-British-is-ludicrous/
I appreciate your daughter has had issues, but if its because of her nationality she has grounds to fight it, because we're all part of the EU. If we leave, she and the rest of the Brits working over there won't have it so easy.
Really OG?
Racism, a belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior.
I can't see how saying that a particular nation's government has a tendency to ignore certain aspects of EU legislation is in anyway racist. If flud had qualified his statement by saying they ignore the legislation because all French people are too stupid to understand it, then that would be a racist comment.
Then there is humour, which is a grey area! Would it be acceptable to say the French shrug their shoulders at everything and continue to eat cheese? The calling of British limeies (not sure of the spelling)?
I know for a fact that other EU nations disregard aspects of legislation that they don't like. EASA the EU's governing body for aviation introduced a whole load of new rules for airworthiness inspection of aircraft (an annual MOT for aeroplanes). The British CAA rules were much simpler to administer. The inspection and report submission time was Increased by a factor of 3X by the EASA legislation. The actual physical check of the aircraft remained unchanged, but the paperwork side increased by 12X. There had never been an aircraft accident caused by a deficiency in the annual inspection procedure. The physical checks remain identical, so how can a 12 fold increase in paperwork enhance safety? EASA even wanted the engineers to hold a Class 2 JAR medical certificate. You can fly passengers on a public transport flight with this medical certificate and I suspect many engineers would have failed it, putting them put of work.
Guess what the UK's CAA did? Yes, embraced the lot. (The medical bit was kicked out by EASA, after much argument, foot stamping and table thumping.)
I know that in Germany and France, they simply ignore much of the EASA burachracy and use most of their leaner, more streamlined pre EASA procedures. If this happens in this one sector, the probability is that they will be ignoring other EU legislation they don't like. I don't disagree with their stance on this type of thing and think the UK are sometimes fools to themselves for sticking to whatever comes out of the EU like robots. A more relaxed and imaginative interpretation of EU rules, as illustrated here, might help make the EU more palatable.
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You will note I asked flud for his definition of his attitude, but of course he can't answer as he has committed Threxit, and you will note has drifted off topic to continue a series of complaints about the French, which are uncalled for.
Can we get back to the subject?
Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
I agree that the Daily Mail /Express etc are biased and it's OK to point that out and it's ok to draw an inference as to the reliability of the information published.
However, why is that anything linked to in this thread which indicates any negative aspect of leaving the EU is taken as gospel. Sacred unquestionable scripture even.
Take for instance oldtom's artical in The Daily Budgerigar. Why is that a more reliable source of information than the Daily Mail? Who is the final arbiter?