Brexit, for once some facts.

oldgroaner

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I don't know why you added that long edit about Russification, but as I've shown above, little of it concerns the USSR or Putin so is of no current relevance.

As I've shown, most of the Tatars left the Crimea in the 18th and 19th centuries, long before the Ukraine even came into existence.
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One thing that keeps bugging me is that no experts so far are willing to identify the nerve agent, so why are Boris and TM so certain of what it is?


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Woosh

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One thing that keeps bugging me is that no experts so far are willing to identify the nerve agent, so why are Boris and TM so certain of what it is?


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I've read somewhere that Porton Down people found it was Novichok A-230 albeit that is our own classification.

 

oldgroaner

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I've read somewhere that Porton Down people found it was Novichok A-230 albeit that is our own classification.

And I have read that they had to be pressured and wouldn't commit themselves other than to say"it's of a type"

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Zlatan

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It's pretty serious. The use of chemical weapons is forbidden by international convention. Those responsible may well find themselves in The Hague answering war crimes. The only question is who they are.
I was being ironic D8VEY.
They have invaded a country.
 

Zlatan

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I've read somewhere that Porton Down people found it was Novichok A-230 albeit that is our own classification.

Thought they,d said it was Novickok from early on ?
I did find a report from a Russian chemist which said effects we,d seen were to be expected for Novichok..and that he was fairly certain the pair would never recover. ( but I had to use Google translate ( searched in Russian)) I cant find the thing now ! ( The site isn't even coming up on same search)
BTW...Novichok means " newcomer" ???!!
 
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flecc

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One thing that keeps bugging me is that no experts so far are willing to identify the nerve agent, so why are Boris and TM so certain of what it is?
They aren't, they're bluffing.

Our ex ambassador to Uzbekistan, Craig Murray has called the whole accusation into question, dwelling on the "of a type developed in Russia" being little indication of any possible guilt.

From their reaearch to date, Porton Down refused to give an identity for the substance and had to be persuaded to reluctantly agree that is "of a type developed in Russia".

The government admits that Porton Down was asked only yesterday to try to identify what it was, rendering invalid all previous allegations that there was adequate proof.

We also know that some of a Novichok agent was stolen in Russia long ago and used on a victim in another country by someone not connected with Russia, showing that possession is no proof of user.

The much greater Russian retaliation against our expulsions indicates genuine anger, not the usual resigned acceptance that follows when they've been caught out.

Russia has today called for the UK to prove the accusation by supplying a sample, or apologise. That is clearly not bluff, since they wouldn't risk saying that if they were guilty, knowing we'd have samples.

At present this all adds up to Russia not being involved this time at least.
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oldgroaner

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They aren't, they're bluffing.

Our ex ambassador to Uzbekistan, Craig Murray has called the whole accusation into question, dwelling on the "of a type developed in Russia" being little indication of any possible guilt.

From their reaearch to date, Porton Down refused to give an identity for the substance and had to be persuaded to reluctantly agree that is "of a type developed in Russia".

The government admits that Porton Down was asked only yesterday to try to identify what it was, rendering invalid all previous allegations that there was adequate proof.

We also know that some of a Novichok agent was stolen in Russia long ago and used on a victim in another country by someone not connected with Russia, showing that possession is no proof of user.

The much greater Russian retaliation against our expulsions indicates genuine anger, not the usual resigned acceptance that follows when they've been caught out.

Russia has today called for the UK to prove the accusation by supplying a sample, or apologise. That is clearly not bluff, since they wouldn't risk saying that if they were guilty, knowing we'd have samples.

At present this all adds up to Russia not being involved this time at least.
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To misquote the "A" team Colonel

"I love it when a Tory plan collapses gruesomely in ruins!"
 
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Woosh

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And I have read that they had to be pressured and wouldn't commit themselves other than to say"it's of a type"

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they are correct. They are families. You can attach various functional groups (ester, alcohol, acid, amine, alkyl, carboxyl etc) to the cores as shown. That's what organic chemistry students do. They study how to make the compounds efficiently given the chemical formula and structure.
 
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oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
'Open Britain' sees today's agreement on the nature of the transition period in much the same way as I see it - very similar in effect to 'Operation Dynamo' or the evacuation of Dunkirk for those who may have never heard of that code name.

Remembering all the rodomontade and bravado exhibited by the clowns who led the 'Brexit' campaign....all the promises and threats about how the UK would simply walk away, paying nothing more, etc, this is what we have been forced to accept today and it looks nothing like the 'Brexit' sold to the electorate in 2016:

28827990_2016791955027785_2377075493303059445_o.png

29060893_2016791948361119_6765518162067672082_o.png

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28828423_2016792085027772_2869305693823974638_o.png

29060334_2016792101694437_2829768894350783380_o.png

28947196_2016792105027770_1667926651435572365_o.png

28701101_2016792185027762_6056514437553214276_o.png

In short, all-you-can-eat sovereignty. What a result!

Tom
 
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Woosh

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On the announcement of the transition deal, the Pound rises to near pre-referendum level. £1 = $1.405.
Would you say that parliament may push for second referendum in 2020 and brexit may not happen now?
 

oldgroaner

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'Open Britain' sees today's agreement on the nature of the transition period in much the same way as I see it - very similar in effect to 'Operation Dynamo' or the evacuation of Dunkirk for those who may have never heard of that code name.

Remembering all the rodomontade and bravado exhibited by the clowns who led the 'Brexit' campaign....all the promises and threats about how the UK would simply walk away, paying nothing more, etc, this is what we have been forced to accept today and it looks nothing like the 'Brexit' sold to the electorate in 2016:

View attachment 23890

View attachment 23891

View attachment 23892

View attachment 23893

View attachment 23894

View attachment 23895

View attachment 23896

In short, all-you-can-eat sovereignty. What a result!

Tom
Not being fair there tom!
We have achieved Sovereignty"
As in
British Sovereignty is the right to do
Exactly what the EU want's us to!

And from the EU's point of view

All the Gain without the Pain

We lose, they win
 
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oldgroaner

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On the announcement of the transition deal, the Pound rises to near pre-referendum level. £1 = $1.405.
Would you say that parliament may push for second referendum in 2020 and brexit may not happen now?
No, there was never any chance of that, was there?
They will all be falling over each other with madcap schemes to make a killing out of us!

One thing you can be sure of: the Public will pay a price, and not merely in the short term
And there are lots of problems ahead to make the Markets nervous, not that the plight of the Public concerns them at all.

All that Brexit will deliver is an increase in Poverty for the lower paid.
 
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oldgroaner

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The telegraph this morning didn't even comment on the deal, just an article about Jackass
"
Jacob Rees-Mogg to fling fish from trawler on Thames in protest for fishermen 'betrayed' by May's Brexit deal"

No doubt the River fish will appreciate a free lunch

And in the Express
"
Jacob Rees-Mogg will lead fishing vessel PROTEST against 'DEATH SENTENCE' Brexit deal
JACOB Rees-Mogg is leading a group of more than 60 Eurosceptic Conservative MPs to board a boat for a second “Battle of the Thames” after the “sellout” Brexit deal struck by the Government, it has been revealed.

Fun, but not as we know it.
 

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