Brexit, for once some facts.

[SHAN]

The term "Donkeys led by Hyenas" springs to mind.
Altrnatively
"Never it the history of human politics has so much been owed to so many by so few."

This is beyond belief, and I would hazard a guess, the tip of a whole corrupt political iceberg.

Cochrane was appointed Commander of the Order of the British Empire (CBE) in the 2016 Birthday Honours for services to business in Scotland.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Cochrane

 

[Zlatan]

Just been listening to JRM on Sunday politics.
Dont really like what he stands for, his privilege etc, but his points were correct and calmly well made.
Basically he was saying if remain feel so righteous and correct in wanting to remain rather than trying to disrupt leaving at every stage those supporting it should stand for election and when in power impart the policies they see fit .( Isn't that how democracy works ?)
Seems a perfectly rational correct attitude. Why isn't anyone representing these views who wishes to continue whinging. What's the expression...put up....or shut up.

OG
I give in. Yes UK were well prepared for WW2, Germans spent less on military than we did in 30's and even if we weren't... It wouldn't have made any difference. Can we move on now and leave WW2 for the history books.

 

[oldgroaner]

Just been listening to JRM on Sunday politics.
Dont really like what he stands for, his privilege etc, but his points were correct and calmly well made.
Basically he was saying if remain feel so righteous and correct in wanting to remain rather than trying to disrupt leaving at every stage those supporting it should stand for election and when in power impart the policies they see fit .( Isn't that how democracy works ?)
Seems a perfectly rational correct attitude. Why isn't anyone representing these views who wishes to continue whinging. What's the expression...put up....or shut up.

OG
I give in. Yes UK were well prepared for WW2, Germans spent less on military than we did in 30's and even if we weren't... It wouldn't have made any difference. Can we move on now and leave WW2 for the history books.

Smooth talking does not disguise the fact that this disreputable politician is promoting a basically wrong decision when even if he has half the brain he would have us believe he would not support brexit.
He does this out of self interest, not in the interests of the public who he regards as unter mensch that can be exploited and abused.
Basically the most evil of con men are smooth talking and appear rational in argument when in fact they speak like this character, who, has been accurately described as the politician for the eighteenth century.
Basically the reply to this man should be how we react to brexit is none of your business, don't let us detain you.
Close the door on your way out

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[SHAN]

, has been accurately described as the politician for the eighteenth century

I would have thought "dangerous, and deranged" more apt.

 

[Zlatan]

I would have thought "dangerous, and deranged" more apt.

But that only makes somebody representing the alternative view more likely to get in power..so why has no one represented your views ?
Yes, JRM is a smooth precise talker but that does not detract from.point he makes.
" If someone wants to remain, stand for election on that policy" .Why is that incorrect ?
What JRM says is irrelevant, the salient point is ( and has been since referendum) why is no one standing for election on remaining.

I,ve been saying same for months now. Remainers rather than insulting deriding leavers just stand for election on your policies. What's the problem ?

Perhaps all remainers know they would not be elected on their policies, in which case their actions are purely to defy democracy.

Really , I am neither leaver or. remainer. I simply want country to carry out the decision given by democracy. (last ref, next ref or a party elected on majority's feelings)

 

[SHAN]

so why has no one represented your views ?

Send my equivalent financial backing to "lord Snooty" an I'll start tomorrow, and I do not jest, and fill bus loads of supporters without any problem.

 

[Zlatan]

Send my equivalent financial backing to "lord Snooty" an I'll start tomorrow, and I do not jest, and fill bus loads of supporters without any problem.

Go for it Shan. I,m skint. Irma wiped me out.
If you get in you could pay back investment loan ten fold...
I trully believe somebody should...with right policies they would walk into no 10..

Suspect essential would be
A) Just left of centre politics.
B) Remain.( or promise of ref2)
C)Something to please leavers.

 

[tillson]

There are alternatives to heavy bottles storing gases under pressure, the cyrogenic containers comprising light aluminium and polyurethane foam can store large amounts of liquidised and adsorbed hydrogen for the periods required. In the event of an adsorbed hydrogen container breaching,, the effect is a steady leak of the gas, not a fuel air bomb mixture. Whether there is the energy demand for trans continent flight, ask yourself why kerosene is not used as a rocket fuel any more.
There is design work yet to be completed, but never is a long time.

A cocktail of hydrogen and oxygen on a commercial airliner is never going to be acceptable. You talk about a steady leak of hydrogen not being a bomb, just a tiny leak is a potential bomb, as I said earlier just four percent by volume in air is explosive, far far less than 4% in an oxygen rich environment.

The dangers and unacceptability of liquid oxygen, liquid hydrogen and members of the public all being in close proximity to each other in an airborne environment aside, there are still issues of being able to carry sufficient for a meaningful flight. Heavy cabling, controller gear, electrical generating plant etc.

For now, I think the medium term future of electric flight lies in unmanned long endurance high altitude observation and monitoring applications. In this field the aircraft can be extremely light and flimsy, not having to withstand the rigours of commercial passenger or cargo use. In this type of use solar panels are feasible for powering the machine and recharging batteries to bridge the hours of darkness.

For commercial electrical flight, something needs to come along that has yet to be invented. A new and previously incomprehensible way to extract power from a material which has always thought to be inert and ordinary. I’m not saying that won’t happen in the coming centuries, I think mankind needs to find a new source of energy to survive, but hydrogen / oxygen bombs on commercial passenger aeroplanes is a non starter from the outset.

 

[SHAN]

Go for it Shan. I,m skint. Irma wiped me out.
If you get in you could pay back investment loan ten fold...

Labour and Conservative fought each other and didn't take The Scottish Nationalists serious, and they got trounced. There is something very rotten to the core, throughout British politics, of which Mogg is part of, but the last thing we / I want is what America "wished for". The Carillion scandal as was Grenfell, doesn't need a lot of digging to find who was in " bed" with who, but the next five minute sound bite buries it. Meanwhile, the political financial "pirates" sail off in their yachts, and the genuinely ill get their benefits sanctioned.

 

[flecc]

Perhaps all remainers know they would not be elected on their policies, in which case their actions are purely to defy democracy.

This sentence contains right and wrong.

It's right that Remainers might not get elected on a Remain platform since the irrationality behind many Leavers decision is unlikely to change.

But it's wrong to say Remainers will defy democracy when they were and are still in fact supporting our parliamentary democracy. The overwhelming majority of the House of Commons backed Remain at the time of the referendum being launched and during the campaign. That was our democratic policy and it should not have been subverted.
.

 

[tillson]

From of all sources, the Daily Mail
"
Top Tories in Chinese 'cash for Brexit' furore: Three ex-Cabinet Ministers targeted by 'Miss Liu' in Mayfair consultancy sting

• Senior politicians were allegedly lured to Chinese company's luxury offices
• They were promised cash and all expenses paid trip to Hong Kong for their info
• Andrew Lansley, Andrew Mitchell and Peter Lilley have all denied wrongdoing

A political storm erupted last night over claims that three former Cabinet Ministers secretly tried to earn thousands of pounds in a 'cash for Brexit' scandal.

The senior politicians were lured to a luxury Mayfair office where they were secretly filmed discussing being paid for telling Chinese tycoons how to make money out of Britain leaving the European Union.


Those targeted were ex-Health Secretary Andrew Lansley, former Chief Whip Andrew Mitchell, and ex-Trade Secretary Peter Lilley. All three last night denied wrongdoing.

True or false? these days it is hard to tell, anyway here's the link
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5292825/Cabinet-ministers-told-China-make-money-Brexit.html

What is odd is it appearing in the Daily Mail. Why? I wonder, what is their agenda here?
It sounds like a classic sting... whose?

Hang on a minute, I’m confused. I thought the Mail was a lying, right wing, Tory scumbag propaganda machine?

 

[Danidl]

A cocktail of hydrogen and oxygen on a commercial airliner is never going to be acceptable. You talk about a steady leak of hydrogen not being a bomb, just a tiny leak is a potential bomb, as I said earlier just four percent by volume in air is explosive, far far less than 4% in an oxygen rich environment.

The dangers and unacceptability of liquid oxygen, liquid hydrogen and members of the public all being in close proximity to each other in an airborne environment aside, there are still issues of being able to carry sufficient for a meaningful flight. Heavy cabling, controller gear, electrical generating plant etc.

For now, I think the medium term future of electric flight lies in unmanned long endurance high altitude observation and monitoring applications. In this field the aircraft can be extremely light and flimsy, not having to withstand the rigours of commercial passenger or cargo use. In this type of use solar panels are feasible for powering the machine and recharging batteries to bridge the hours of darkness.

For commercial electrical flight, something needs to come along that has yet to be invented. A new and previously incomprehensible way to extract power from a material which has always thought to be inert and ordinary. I’m not saying that won’t happen in the coming centuries, I think mankind needs to find a new source of energy to survive, but hydrogen / oxygen bombs on commercial passenger aeroplanes is a non starter from the outset.

Tilson, your knowledge of the dangers of dealing with kerosene fumes is colouring your expectations regarding the use of hydrogen. It's characteristics are utterly different

 

[Zlatan]

Labour and Conservative fought each other and didn't take The Scottish Nationalists serious, and they got trounced. There is something very rotten to the core, throughout British politics, of which Mogg is part of, but the last thing we / I want is what America "wished for". The Carillion scandal as was Grenfell, doesn't need a lot of digging to find who was in " bed" with who, but the next five minute sound bite buries it. Meanwhile, the political financial "pirates" sail off in their yachts, and the genuinely ill get their benefits sanctioned.

This post is a bit beyond me...Thought you were standing ? If so what policies to do what Makron did in France.
I agree politics is corrupt to core but surely its a bit early for you to start with the defeatist attitude.

Extreme left will never get in.( If they do will be purely by inheritance)
A centralist yet caring regime stating it would go back to electorate for confirmation/ cessation of leaving.( or offer remain if you are brave enough)
Trouble at moment we are between devil and deep blue sea.. My feeling is the devil we know is better than red devil we dont, I suspect that's a general feeling.
UK would only vote for an unknown if it was seen as moderate and saying right things. ( labour is doing neither at moment)
Blaming right wing press is completely missing the real situation.

 

[Woosh]

A centralist yet caring regime stating it would go back to electorate for confirmation/ cessation of leaving.( or offer remain if you are brave enough)
Trouble at moment we are between devil and deep blue sea.. My feeling is the devil we know is better than red devil we dont, I suspect that's a general feeling.

a centrist team would still leave (otherwise, brexit will continue bugging the next generation) but would stay very close to membership.

 

[oldgroaner]

" If someone wants to remain, stand for election on that policy" .Why is that incorrect ?
What JRM says is irrelevant, the salient point is ( and has been since referendum) why is no one standing for election on remaining.

It is like him irrelevant because he knows full well that no one in Parliament cares to represent the Remain faction and there is no time for someone to get into any position where they can get elected, before the Brexit deed is done.

So really the fact that 50% of the voting population isn't represented by any politician is a damning comment on the fact that Parliament doesn't represent the people, hence if jackass grease Smug sat down his voice would be muffled.
Like Boris he opens his mouth only to sell himself a better paid job that he has no intention of doing to the advantage of the public.

 

[oldgroaner]

Hang on a minute, I’m confused. I thought the Mail was a lying, right wing, Tory scumbag propaganda machine?

Exactly, so why have they posted that report? have you any idea?

 

[SHAN]

Blaming right wing press is completely missing the real situation.

Regardless of who gets into power, something must be done to stop, permanently, the Philip Greens, Robert Maxwell's, Carillion's, RBS etc of this country. Lessons are never learned. If you saved, and stored your money under your bed as a pension fund, and I broke into your home and stole it, and got caught, I would be prosecuted. These ******D's, do it in front of the government's eyes, wholesale, and get off. Looking at the list of names and connections surrounding Carillion was an eye opener. And don't think it would be any different under a left wing government either, they just have another brand. How long till the Lib Dems shake off their "Party for Hire" image ? that shot them in the foot.

 

[tillson]

Tilson, your knowledge of the dangers of dealing with kerosene fumes is colouring your expectations regarding the use of hydrogen. It's characteristics are utterly different

OK, I am prepared to be convinced and am receptive to new information.

I know for a fact that hydrogen in a concentration of 4% by volume in air is explosive, not just flammable, but explosive. In an environment richer in oxygen, which is highly likely in the event of an on-board leak, that percentage will be even lower. What is incorrect about that?

A fuel system leak is not uncommon, but with JET-A1 etc can be dealt with easily due to its low flash point. A bird strike on for example nearly always results in some form of fuel leak due to the out of balance loads fracturing a pipe. Failure of a low pressure compressor blade will cause out of balance loads that will easily fracture a pipe. There are a multitude of other factors which can cause a leak, but with JET-A1 type fuels they are't usually a problem, the worst that can happen is an uncontrollable fire, but the aircraft may even survive that.

With hydrogen any of the above, "fairly common" events will cause the aircraft to explode. Not catch fire or burn, but explode. The situation is made 10 times worse and 10 times more volatile by the fact that the machine will be carrying liquid oxygen as well.

I worked for many years developing and testing low pressure aircraft fuel systems and have a working knowledge of hydrogen & nitrogen cryogenic systems. We used to use cryogenic techniques to cool aircraft engines and systems to simulate high altitude and arctic operating environments. Hydrogen is so dangerous, I don’t think you understand that the safety measures needed to obtain operator certification for commercial flight would be prohibitive. Flight certification testing is another area I have worked in for many years and a good working knowledge of what’s involved.

I have heard nothing from you that makes anything approaching a sensible proposal for the use of hydrogen to power an airliner.

 

[tillson]

Exactly, so why have they posted that report? have you any idea?

This is just a wild guess.

Could it be that anything reported which has a left wing slant to it is the gospel truth and anything which has a centre to right tinge is nothing but filthy lies?

 

[flecc]

Hang on a minute, I’m confused. I thought the Mail was a lying, right wing, Tory scumbag propaganda machine?

Exactly, so why have they posted that report? have you any idea?

They may be gunning for them, particularly Peter Lilley.

Lilley's a right winger and very anti-EU, the sort the Mail expects to act according, but he's blotted his copybook three times in their eyes.

First was long ago when he privately told Margaret Thatcher she was finished, and then backed John Major for PM.

But since they still had a Tory government, the Mail was inclined to forgive, but then he did it again. After John Major made his impromptu "bastards" speech, he later named Lilley as one of the bastards undermining him. Second black mark.

And in April 2017, just when the party (and the Mail) needed all the right wing strength possible to pursue hard brexit, Lilley announced his retirement as an MP and left the house. A traitor in the Mail's eyes.
.