Brexit, for once some facts.

Woosh

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Next you'll be calling Amazon a bike shop!
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sorry I was called to work.
and yet, Amazon and Ebay are probably selling more bikes and e-bikes than all the dealers on here put together if not No 1 and No2 in the UK in volume and value.
The market share of the IBDs is shrinking year on year.
At the current rate, it'll shrink to half its current size in 5 years.
The model of smaller IBD has to move over to servicing rather than sale and there lies the rub. Take Shimano parts for example, they can't compete on price against CRC, Wiggle and the likes. So is supplying labour generating enough income to sustain them? I have my doubts.
 
sorry I was called to work.
and yet, Amazon and Ebay are probably selling more bikes and e-bikes than all the dealers on here put together if not No 1 and No2 in the UK in volume and value.
The market share of the IBDs is shrinking year on year.
At the current rate, it'll shrink to half its current size in 5 years.
The model of smaller IBD has to move over to servicing rather than sale and there lies the rub. Take Shimano parts for example, they can't compete on price against CRC, Wiggle and the likes. So is supplying labour generating enough income to sustain them? I have my doubts.
Ebay, doesn't sell anything! Its bike shops advertising on there who sell the bikes. Same with Amazon in most cases.
 
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Danidl

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This discussion was about bike shops.

They aren't bike shops, they are similar to what we use to call department stores. Next you'll be calling Amazon a bike shop!
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Would major prestige brands like ktm Raleigh R&M ( not trying to be parochial here) be fundamentally opposed to selling their product via Argos? I note that major Global brands like Sony have no difficulty. Not their full range of ciurse but some of their ranges..
 
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oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
I use their propaganda against them and you to prove what a fool you have been to trust the brexit lies and false promises that you did.
I really don't know how you can be bothered OG. The troll is described accurately in the following definition, bearing in mind there are other meanings of the word which I have deliberately left out for the sake of clarity.

troll2 | trɒl, trəʊl |

noun

1 a person who makes a deliberately offensive or provocative online post: one solution is to make a troll's postings invisible to the rest of community once they've been recognized.

a deliberately offensive or provocative online post.


verb [no object]

1 make a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them: if people are obviously trolling then I'll delete your posts and do my best to ban you | [with object] : you folks taking this opportunity to troll me, you really need to reassess your values in your life.

Understanding that trolls are mentally deranged allows me to ignore the perverse, provocative rubbish that the one which haunts these pages delivers to the thread on the rare occasions it reports anything even close to topic.

Correspondence with a troll, in my view, is therefore pointless and you should know better than to engage in a battle of wits with an opponent that is only half-prepared!:D

Tom
 
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Woosh

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Ebay, doesn't sell anything! Its bike shops advertising on there who sell the bikes. Same with Amazon in most cases.
their marketing model is different.
No brick and mortar.
Centralised support.
Economy of scale.
 
their marketing model is different.
No brick and mortar.
Centralised support.
Economy of scale.
I know many many IBDs that use eBay and Amazon to advertise their bikes, their websites are just internet shop windows. Ebay is not a shop, Amazon in some cases start to take on stock of good selling items themselves, but I'm not sure many bike brands supply Amazon directly.

Also Amazon and eBay have been around for years, nothing in their strategy has changed that would . could have caused the decline in bikes sold in the UK. (I million less don't forget) and this includes Wiggle / CRC / Internet etc etc...

https://www.bikebiz.com/retail/uk-cycle-industry-predicted-to-sell-1-million-fewer-bikes-this-year

Thats a big decline...
 
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Danidl

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I know many many IBDs that use eBay and Amazon to advertise their bikes, their websites are just internet shop windows. Ebay is not a shop, Amazon in some cases start to take on stock of good selling items themselves, but I'm not sure many bike brands supply Amazon directly.

Also Amazon and eBay have been around for years, nothing in their strategy has changed that would . could have caused the decline in bikes sold in the UK. (I million less don't forget) and this includes Wiggle / CRC / Internet etc etc...

https://www.bikebiz.com/retail/uk-cycle-industry-predicted-to-sell-1-million-fewer-bikes-this-year

Thats a big decline...
Just to tie the two threads together maybe the bike shops should sell cappuccino while your getting your wheel straightened? . As I said previously in France those bike shops would also be servicing mopeds and mowers.
 
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Danidl

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some numbers of interest:

Bike Moving annual totals (Units to August 2016)
Units imported: 2,969,708
Change YOY: -19.85%
Origin in order of volume: Philippines, Taiwan, Bangladesh, Dem. Kampuchea, Tunisia

Electric Bike Moving annual totals (Units to August 2016)
Units imported: 232,146
Change YOY: +237.94%
Origin in order of volume: China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Germany, UAE

Bike Moving annual totals (Value to August 2016)
Value imported: £349,408,000
Change YOY: -12.25%

Electric Bike Moving annual totals (Value to August 2016)
Value imported: £29,855,000
Change YOY: +144.36%
The problem here is that this is all pre referendum. It might be illuminating to see the 2017 figures... remember the pound took a hammering from which it has not recovered.
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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sorry I was called to work.
and yet, Amazon and Ebay are probably selling more bikes and e-bikes than all the dealers on here put together if not No 1 and No2 in the UK in volume and value.
The market share of the IBDs is shrinking year on year.
At the current rate, it'll shrink to half its current size in 5 years.
The model of smaller IBD has to move over to servicing rather than sale and there lies the rub. Take Shimano parts for example, they can't compete on price against CRC, Wiggle and the likes. So is supplying labour generating enough income to sustain them? I have my doubts.
I generally agree, and certainly labour alone can't sustain bike shops. That's why huge numbers closed in the 1960 to 1980 period when bike sales slumped.

But there will still be repair outlets in major urban centres since those sales outlets can't or won't repair.

There's a long established and very successful example of what they may be like on this link.
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most of it may be accounted for by a shift to online purchases though.
No No No No No No, and again no.

a)

This is number of bikes imported into the UK, it doesn't matter how they are sold to the customer. There has been a big decline.

and

b)

And there wasn't a sudden change to internet sales in 2017. The internet has been around for too long now to blame for that, even if internet sales weren't recorded in the total.
 
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This discussion around bike shops, does seem to fit in well with the Brexit debate..

Reason.

People seem to have opinions, that they seem comfortable to share on the net, and I'm sure in pubs and conversations in the real world that are simply nonsense.

Luckily there isn't a referendum on the future of the bike industry, otherwise we'd be doomed to have people voting on things they've clearly had dreams about.

Facts are clearly dead.
 
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flecc

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most of it may be accounted for by a shift to online purchases though.
After many years at 2 millions a year bicycle sales, the Olympic and Tour de France wins caused a sudden jump to 3 millions for a while.

Now in just one year it's slumped back to its natural level, probably as the effect of the track and race successes wore off.

I doubt there's much connection to other factors, though the economy is playing a part.
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Kudoscycles

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Selling bikes on e-bay is really a last resort....reasons
1. E bay is generally considered a bargain basement shop,to achieve sales you have to be cheap
2. E bay takes 10% of the selling price including delivery costs,thats a big chunk out of a £1200.00 bike
3. Most purchasers expect free delivery,on a small part thats ok but on a bicycle?
4. Any problems and the seller ends up picking up the tab,even if the purchaser just says 'I changed my mind'
5. There is a lot of buyer fraud on E bay that can result in a total loss.
Whilst I have a lot of moans about E bay I dont think its the reason for the bike business going through a hard time...I just think many people are short of money and Brexit is causing considerable uncertainty when buying a big ticket item,the Carillion bust is affecting thousands of employees both directly and indirectly....there may be many more. This government is so occupied with Brexit they dont have the time or skills to run the country,people are generally very nervous.
KudosDave
 

oldgroaner

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But you promote the damned paper and it seems spend most of your time reading it...or other rubbish like express.
Enraged communists like yourself and Tom dont have a monopoly on disliking propoganda media, its like most of your arguments, based on generalisations and assumption. Disagreeing with you and Tom does not make anybody a tory; right wing; racist or anything of the sort.
Poorly informed insist on putting things in boxes. It makes things simple enough for them to understand.
Are you completely blinkered? you are your own worst enemy as every time you post there is nothing whatever of substance.
Still I see that you voted for Brexit for the obvious reason that by any standards you were poorly informed about it, but worse, have not learned from experience how misguided a decision that was.
And no matter how simple we make if for you, you still don't get it do you?
I'll simplify it further
Our Parliamentary system is so corrupt and inept it has no chance whatever of benefiting the general public after Brexit, like you it has no idea of the seriousness of the situation or even as in your case understanding what it has done and why.
None of the parties has either the will, intention, or intelligence to even begin to comprehend the nature of the problem we face, and how to go about gaining a satisfactory outcome.
And here is an example of the utter nonsense you come out with.

"Disagreeing with you and Tom does not make anybody a tory; right wing; racist or anything of the sort.

We have never said it did, but YOU have. repeatedy.
This is a assertion that no one else but you has made,
Are you working on the assumption that if a lie is repeated it becomes the truth?

It shows how twisted your views have become, as neither of us have ever made such a suggestion.

Why the do you keep repeating this "Fake News" you have come up with?
you should be ashamed of yourself for blaming others for the things you have invented yourself.
 
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Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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Not for keeping current bike shops in business! Potential doesn't pay any bills.

In fact our 65 millions aren't potential either, it's 50 millions after deducting the registered disabled and under 10s.

My figures are as accurate as is possible, based on the 3% of the 50 millions who could cycle who do cycle with any degree of frequency.
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Both the under 10's and disabled are a massive potential buying group. My 4 year old grandson is on his second balance bike, his little brother at 2 has just started with his old one.
Recent trip to centre parks...every kid there from 3 upwards had some kind of wheeled device, mainly bicycles.
Ebikes should have and tp an extent have opened up many more potential customers. Have a mate who,s had two TKR,s combined with parkinsons. Toyed with a mobility scooter but now using an Ebike..Its helped no end with his walking.
Yes I agree that not entire population ate likely to ever ride bikes but its way more than 3% who might...
Assuming the market is stale is first thing on list to making it so. Thinking only people likely to buy bikes are cyclists of old is bad for business and by evidence wrong. Look how many new recruits there are on here. If you want to examine a stagnant declining market have a look at windsurf industry..
Compared to that bikes are positively bouyant, trouble is the market is now dominated by massive players. Smaller concerns will find it harder and harder to compete.
We have James Cycles, Decathlon, Halfords and Bike Supermarket all within 5 mile radius. The corner shop bike shop just cant compete. ( James IMO are leading way. They have loads of ebikes, a massive children's department and foster the sport in area.( and huge discounts)
 
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Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
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Are you completely blinkered? you are your own worst enemy as every time you post there is nothing whatever of substance.
Still I see that you voted for Brexit for the obvious reason that by any standards you were poorly informed about it, but worse, have not learned from experience how misguided a decision that was.
And no matter how simple we make if for you, you still don't get it do you?
I'll simplify it further
Our Parliamentary system is so corrupt and inept it has no chance whatever of benefiting the general public after Brexit, like you it has no idea of the seriousness of the situation or even as in your case understanding what it has done and why.
None of the parties has either the will, intention, or intelligence to even begin to comprehend the nature of the problem we face, and how to go about gaining a satisfactory outcome.
And here is an example of the utter nonsense you come out with.

"Disagreeing with you and Tom does not make anybody a tory; right wing; racist or anything of the sort.

We have never said it did, but YOU have. repeatedy.
This is a assertion that no one else but you has made,
Are you working on the assumption that if a lie is repeated it becomes the truth?

It shows how twisted your views have become, as neither of us have ever made such a suggestion.

Why the do you keep repeating this "Fake News" you have come up with?
you should be ashamed of yourself for blaming others for the things you have invented yourself.
OG
We,ve been saying same thing to each other for months now, lets just agree to differ and that you are a befuddled old brainwashed angry fool with little else but idealistic , unrealistic, and unattainable goals nobody is even offering you.
You dont want Tories, labour or a centralist compromise..You want something you ain't ever going to get...( but not even sure exactly what you and Tom are campaigning for, only what you are campaigning against.)
Yes, its an unfair world. Get over it. Grow up.

I don't think you even know what you want..Yep, stay in EU. But that sure as hell wont end your continued moaning. Nothing would.
 
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Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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wooshbikes.co.uk
Yes I agree that not entire population ate likely to ever ride bikes but its way more than 3% who might...
3% may ride regularly or use their bikes as primary transport, many more buy bikes then ride only a few weekends a year or just leave them in the garage/shed.
There may be a rule here, the more expensive the bike, the less it gets used.
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Both the under 10's and disabled are a massive potential buying group. My 4 year old grandson is on his second balance bike, his little brother at 2 has just started with his old one.
But I repeat, you cannot run a shop on potential, only an existing successful shop can exploit potential. Thats why Col, supported by me, has been speaking of the many who opened for the perceived boom and are now shutting down. They could only have survived if there was expansion, but there wasn't. Instead there's been major contraction this year, a third less sold.

The 3% is fact for those who will ride bikes with any degree of regularity, and the "way more" you speak of who might ride is just wishful thinking.

They are already buying bikes and owning bikes, bike and car sales for many years have been roughly the same at 2 millions or a little more per annum of each and recently it's been a lot more bikes sold than cars.

But as a glance on our roads shows, most are scarcely ever being ridden. So there's hardly any potential when they already own bikes but don't use them. Even counting only bikes up to 10 years old there are over 24 million bikes in ownership, compared to 31 million cars.

That also questions your child cycling potential. A third of all the bikes sold are childrens, a million a year in the last few years so the market is already being well served and used. But in the UK parents widely refuse to permit their children to ride on roads since they regard it as too dangerous. Again little potential unless you could magically convince them the roads are safe enough.
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