Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

But outside the EU we will be able to negotiate speedily the really worthwhile deals to access fast growing protected markets such as China, India and Brazil which the EU has ignored.

There was no need to quote that article Peter, I'm well aware of the content but despite that have given my reasons for being a Remainer.

But I've extracted the portion above to try once again to get you to see my original posted point.

There's no shortage of German products in those countries, invalidating Lilley's argument. We don't have to leave the EU to trade with them any more than Germany had to.

We just need to learn how to do it, whether we are in or out of the EU.

What makes you think we can learn that once out, if we can't do it when in?
.

 

[Danidl]

I dont think leaving affects property ownership.the chinese own lots of property in the UK,France and Germany.
Danidl...I like your posts,they are useful info and present someone who lives in the EU,but unfortunately the UK seems commited to crashing out of Europe,that suits the Rees Moggs,who want to turn the UK into a Singaporean style tax haven that will attract the elite (why travel to Bermuda when you have a tax haven at home). You have to accept we are leaving,many in the UK will suffer but the wealthy will prevail.
I must say 11% income tax,15% corporation tax,nil capital gains tax,nil inheritance tax,private NHS/Pensions/Social Care,minimal dole or benefits could be worth a try....I wonder if poor man from Huddersfield really knew what he voted for?????
KudosDave

The distinction in respect of property ownership is that EU citizens have rights, subject to the specific laws of the country, exactly similar to any native of that country and vindicated by the ECJ. Chinese Australian , Asian, and Americans do not. They need visas at any time at the whim of the host country.

 

[Zlatan]

What an amazing response, but not a surprise to me. You are unpleasant in the extreme. As to whether I stay or go that obviously depends on the level of conversation and the value, or otherwise I get from being on here. That's both Tom and yourself that have today, suggested I leave - let me keep you in suspense. I might, I might not, there are still a few voices on here that I enjoy talking to and learning from.

Peterl
The process you have found yourself going through is not unique. OG with support from Robdon and Tom have done exactly this to quite a few posters. OG's attitude, infact post almost word for word , is the same to a number of earlier posters. Its all there for all to see, their treatment of Flud ( an early contributor, making perfectly valid and polite posts) was identical to that of yourself, myself,Tillson, Woosh and by memory I think Gray)
OG and Tom are damaged individuals with neither the ability or desire to discuss anything rationally.

This thread has been fantastic and most posters from both sides have been capable of disagreeing and modifying their opinions.
OG and Tom cant do either, they have damaged the atmosphere on here. Many have walked away because of this. OG and Tom see that as a victory. Why moderators allow this to happen, I have no idea.
And OG before you start ranting about my dislikes, I suggest you look how many dislikes from a single individual I have accumulated and how many likes that same individual has given you. ( Its in the thousands)
Its quite strange that only 2 posters on entire forum have more likes than posts. Tom and OG ?? I wonder if there is some link Robdon ?

 

[Danidl]

Further to my earlier remarks about the performance of the NHS in my wife's case where she waited four months for an appointment with a Neurologist, and duly went to the said appointment on the 3rd Nov.
The Neurologist said she would immediately write to our GP with a recommended prescription for the condition.
The place we went to for the appoitment is less than 3 miles from our surgery.
17 days later I ring yet again to be told nothing yet they will ring me when it arrives.
By now I am not impressed.
Why couldn't the Neurologist simply written out a prescription there and then and then sent a letter?
My wife has had up to five separate headached each 24 hours since then, that's about 80 unneccesary bouts since a remedy was prescribed.
Time to look at the Complaints Procedure I decide, to find this
"
Timescale
Please be aware that this Trust aims to provide a timely response to complaints, however, this is determined by the complexity of the investigation. It is anticipated that a response will be available between 25 and 60 working days; however the average time for a response to a complaint is within 40 working days."

The best thing you seem to be able to do is disguise a patient as an animal and then you can get same day service from a Vet

Its easy being wise after the event, but why did you not ask for a prescription from the consultant?.

 

[PeterL]

There was no need to quote that article Peter, I'm well aware of the content but despite that have given my reasons for being a Remainer.

But I've extracted the portion above to try once again to get you to see my original posted point.

There's no shortage of German products in those countries, invalidating Lilley's argument. We don't have to leave the EU to trade with them any more than Germany had to.

We just need to learn how to do it, whether we are in or out of the EU.

What makes you think we can learn that once out, if we can't do it when in?
.

Grant you we were very slow with China. However, you surely agree that HK was a big problem for us in those formative days, still is to a degree but things are improving now.. Germany exports more to the UK than it does to China and has a fairly big trade deficit with them, more than offset by their US figures of course. Post-Brexit will bring a focus that we've not had for far too long. That depends on whatever agreement we get with the previous post at least showing that the EU are beginning to publicly give some positive impetus to the reporting of the negotiations (that's in my view - might still be posturing.

 

[oldgroaner]

I am, truly, sorry to hear that.

Ironic that you should say this, but, the big difference here is that our pets don't get treated on the National Health we have to pay for them ourselves, when we need them. Like you say seems to work well.

Assume you wouldn't have too much difficulty in disguising yourself as such?

Thank you for your sympathetic response and yes, I it is true that I have no difficulty passing myself off as an animal, though I do sympathise with the difficulty in doing so for a Vegetable like your goodself

 

[oldgroaner]

Its easy being wise after the event, but why did you not ask for a prescription from the consultant?.

We did, apparently there is a procedure to follow.

 

[oldgroaner]

Peterl
The process you have found yourself going through is not unique. OG with support from Robdon and Tom have done exactly this to quite a few posters. OG's attitude, infact post almost word for word , is the same to a number of earlier posters. Its all there for all to see, their treatment of Flud ( an early contributor, making perfectly valid and polite posts) was identical to that of yourself, myself,Tillson, Woosh and by memory I think Gray)
OG and Tom are damaged individuals with neither the ability or desire to discuss anything rationally.

This thread has been fantastic and most posters from both sides have been capable of disagreeing and modifying their opinions.
OG and Tom cant do either, they have damaged the atmosphere on here. Many have walked away because of this. OG and Tom see that as a victory. Why moderators allow this to happen, I have no idea.
And OG before you start ranting about my dislikes, I suggest you look how many dislikes from a single individual I have accumulated and how many likes that same individual has given you. ( Its in the thousands)
Its quite strange that only 2 posters on entire forum have more likes than posts. Tom and OG ?? I wonder if there is some link Robdon ?

Here we go again off topic as usual.
And this is the man who has just gone back as far as he can go even to a time before he joined just to out a dislike against my posts.
How pathetic can you get? such a juvenile attack that a kid might do.
The atmosphere on here would be infinitely improved if you ever came out with something, anything to do with the Topic instead of carrying on as if you are the Caped Crusader come to clean the swamp.

Not a single post you have made had any content that put the leave cause in a hopeful light, you are either evasive, or attack someone while wailing about how people attack you, without the slightest undestanding of how foolish you look.

Do us all a big favour: Post on topic, even better, decide which side you are on and find some suitable facts to support that side.

As to Robdon, I have no more idea than you have who he or she is.
How could I possibly know.

Again you criticise the Moderators, why do you do that when you are the worst offender of all for attacking all and sundry as you just took the opportunity to do in this last post?


The individuals who were on the Brexit side ducked out for the simple reason that they could not come up with anything more than excuses and wishful thinking to support Brexit, but you decided to attack all and sundry as a smokescreen instead, and you still persist in doing so.

This is such a regular event that you really need to ask yourself why you are doing it.
That is bad enough and worse you never actually post on Topic either with a convincing argument in favour of whichever side you temporarily support.

Damaged individual am I ? for being constant in my criticism of a damn fool idea like Brexit? while you chop and change as the wind blows?

No not at all, I know when something is foolish and you couldn't resist a gamble with the future of the next generation, without a plan on the basis of wishful thinking.
Now which one of us is the damaged one?

 

[oldgroaner]

From Reuters
"
Frankfurt out of race for EBA, Dublin leads Paris: sources
Reuters Staff

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Dublin and Paris went into a runoff on Monday to host the European Banking Authority after Britain leaves the EU, diplomatic sources said after second round in which Frankfurt was eliminated.
One source said Dublin was only one vote short of a 14-country majority. Ireland has, among other arguments, secured something of a sympathy vote from fellow governments who concede that it will be the hardest hit of the 27 by Brexit."

Luck of the Irish at work here?

 

[oldgroaner]

Also from Reuters
"
UK commits billions to 'industries of future' to ward off Brexit shocks
Reuters Staf
LONDON (Reuters) - Prime Minister Theresa May on Monday announced 4 billion pounds of spending on research and development and regional growth strategies, setting out plans to help the economy grow after Brexit.

Two simple questions, who or what will have the benefit of this money, and where is it to come from, when we are told Taxes are going to be cut?

 

[Danidl]

From Reuters
"
Frankfurt out of race for EBA, Dublin leads Paris: sources
Reuters Staff

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Dublin and Paris went into a runoff on Monday to host the European Banking Authority after Britain leaves the EU, diplomatic sources said after second round in which Frankfurt was eliminated.
One source said Dublin was only one vote short of a 14-country majority. Ireland has, among other arguments, secured something of a sympathy vote from fellow governments who concede that it will be the hardest hit of the 27 by Brexit."

Luck of the Irish at work here?

Apparently Ireland was in the running for both this and the medical research board. My prejudice would have been for the medical board, but our government has decided to waive that one , and concentrate on the banking!

 

[PeterL]

From Reuters
"
Frankfurt out of race for EBA, Dublin leads Paris: sources
Reuters Staff

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Dublin and Paris went into a runoff on Monday to host the European Banking Authority after Britain leaves the EU, diplomatic sources said after second round in which Frankfurt was eliminated.
One source said Dublin was only one vote short of a 14-country majority. Ireland has, among other arguments, secured something of a sympathy vote from fellow governments who concede that it will be the hardest hit of the 27 by Brexit."

Luck of the Irish at work here?

I doubt that, there's a lot more to the Irish that an odd Leprechaun might have you believe. Might attract some Bankers from London, the craic is very good over there.

 

[PeterL]

Also from Reuters
"
UK commits billions to 'industries of future' to ward off Brexit shocks
Reuters Staf
LONDON (Reuters) - Prime Minister Theresa May on Monday announced 4 billion pounds of spending on research and development and regional growth strategies, setting out plans to help the economy grow after Brexit.

Two simple questions, who or what will have the benefit of this money, and where is it to come from, when we are told Taxes are going to be cut?

Forget the negatives OG - this is good news and just what 'we' want to hear.

 

[Zlatan]

Here we go again off topic as usual.
And this is the man who has just gone back as far as he can go even to a time before he joined just to out a dislike against my posts.
How pathetic can you get? such a juvenile attack that a kid might do.
The atmosphere on here would be infinitely improved if you ever came out with something, anything to do with the Topic instead of carrying on as if you are the Caped Crusader come to clean the swamp.

Not a single post you have made had any content that put the leave cause in a hopeful light, you are either evasive, or attack someone while wailing about how people attack you, without the slightest undestanding of how foolish you look.

Do us all a big favour: Post on topic, even better, decide which side you are on and find some suitable facts to support that side.

As to Robdon, I have no more idea than you have who he or she is.
How could I possibly know.

Again you criticise the Moderators, why do you do that when you are the worst offender of all for attacking all and sundry as you just took the opportunity to do in this last post?


The individuals who were on the Brexit side ducked out for the simple reason that they could not come up with anything more than excuses and wishful thinking to support Brexit, but you decided to attack all and sundry as a smokescreen instead, and you still persist in doing so.

This is such a regular event that you really need to ask yourself why you are doing it.
That is bad enough and worse you never actually post on Topic either with a convincing argument in favour of whichever side you temporarily support.

Damaged individual am I ? for being constant in my criticism of a damn fool idea like Brexit? while you chop and change as the wind blows?

No not at all, I know when something is foolish and you couldn't resist a gamble with the future of the next generation, without a plan on the basis of wishful thinking.
Now which one of us is the damaged one?

Although your post has the normal insultory, confrontational tone it is somewhat less condescending and patronising. So well done...it's a start.
And by the way, the reply was for Peterl, as normal you reply.

I just wonder what you would see as good news OG ? The promised investments must surely be good news...

Hand your pc over to Robdon now for him to hit the dislikes.

Seems to me EU are bribing us , seems gangland type diplomacy. Pay us what we want ( not necessarily what we should get) or we wont give you a trade deal...I suspect the EU is losing support in UK because of this. Kudos may well not yet be a leaver but his arguments are more critical of EU. Think many more are seeing it this way...

 

[PeterL]

Thank you for your sympathetic response and yes, I it is true that I have no difficulty passing myself off as an animal, though I do sympathise with the difficulty in doing so for a Vegetable like your goodself

If I were you I'd careful before I went to a Vet, they might just put you down!

 

[oldgroaner]

Forget the negatives OG - this is good news and just what 'we' want to hear.

Again you don't have an answer to the question, this is likely to be like the DUP "Bung" that never materialised.
Of course you want to hear it and ever think of asking questions such as who is going to build these driverless cars, and is the money touted even a hundredth of the cost it takes to develp one?
No wonder you fall for their lies
https://qz.com/924212/what-it-really-costs-to-turn-a-car-into-a-self-driving-vehicle/

If I were you I'd careful before I went to a Vet, they might just put you down!

Now that is tempting!, but alas it would be a cowards way out for me.

 

[oldgroaner]

Although your post has the normal insultory, confrontational tone it is somewhat less condescending and patronising. So well done...it's a start.
And by the way, the reply was for Peterl, as normal you reply.

I just wonder what you would see as good news OG ? The promised investments must surely be good news...

Hand your pc over to Robdon now for him to hit the dislikes.

Seems to me EU are bribing us , seems gangland type diplomacy. Pay us what we want ( not necessarily what we should get) or we wont give you a trade deal...I suspect the EU is losing support in UK because of this. Kudos may well not yet be a leaver but his arguments are more critical of EU. Think many more are seeing it this way...

Cancellation of Brexit would be Good news.
The investments are far too small to be significant and there is no guarantee they will happen, as so many other promises have failed to see the light of day.
Words are cheap and lies cheaper still with this Government.

 

[PeterL]

gain you don't have an answer to the question, this is likely to be like the DUP "Bung" that never materialised.
Of course you want to hear it and ever think of asking questions such as who is going to build these driverless cars, and is the money touted even a hundredth of the cost it takes to develp one?
No wonder you fall for their lies

Now that is tempting!, but alas it would be a cowards way out for me.

Silly, leading questions OG. I'm not in charge of the purse strings but, I do feel both sure and confident that the UK will invest such monies in R&D. Not even Labour would disagree with this? You do of course, because that would seem to be all you do - disagree with everything and if it makes sense you pour scorn over the possibility that it will happen. Come on, lighten up, you'll feel so much better with no need to pretend to be a canine.or whatever ever it was you feel qualified to misrepresent at the local vet.

 

[Zlatan]

"Now that is tempting!, but alas it would be a cowards way out for me."


Always thinking of No1...

 

[oldgroaner]

Although your post has the normal insultory, confrontational tone it is somewhat less condescending and patronising. So well done...it's a start.
And by the way, the reply was for Peterl, as normal you reply.

I just wonder what you would see as good news OG ? The promised investments must surely be good news...

Hand your pc over to Robdon now for him to hit the dislikes.

Seems to me EU are bribing us , seems gangland type diplomacy. Pay us what we want ( not necessarily what we should get) or we wont give you a trade deal...I suspect the EU is losing support in UK because of this. Kudos may well not yet be a leaver but his arguments are more critical of EU. Think many more are seeing it this way...

Here is a thought for you to consider.
The EU really don't care what support it has in the UK as it has written us off already and has (unlike us) planned what to do if we walk away.
If I was them I would breathe a sigh of relief, revise their budget (unlike here were suddenly the magic money tree allows investment we couldn't afford before)
And wave us goodbye, come back when you grow up.
Where does the "Gangland" idea come from? you Bexit fans seem to have a persecution complex.
The EU really really doesn't care about attitudes in the UK
It has an Agenda and plan, we haven't either.