Brakes.
- Thread starter Leedspete
- Start date
Given the weight of most ebikes Pete, a 4 pot is probably better than cable, or 2 pot.
Something like Deore 501/520 (lever and caliper numbers) would suit much better.
Like everything its a case of you get what you pay for, and when it comes to brakes, care must be taken and no scrimping allowed, as that is the single most most important part of a bike that saves you from serious injury or even death.
Something like Deore 501/520 (lever and caliper numbers) would suit much better.
Like everything its a case of you get what you pay for, and when it comes to brakes, care must be taken and no scrimping allowed, as that is the single most most important part of a bike that saves you from serious injury or even death.
Really good point that some completely forget!
IMHO some people simply are not mechanically minded enought to set up mechanical disk brakes properly I, and others, have found.
And up to now (and I do not know any of the makes I have actually adjusted for people over some years, as I am simply not interested in even knowing), once someone with a better understanding of mechanics (not always me I hasten to add!),adjusts them, then suddenly the brakes start to work far better!
On some, it was necessary to replace the pads which were far beyond the end of their useful life, but the owner had not checked properly!
But one is either mechanically minded or not, it's that simple.
It would be interesting for me at least, if someone who really can set up mechanical disks, had a go at the brakes mentioned by the OP here, who could the say, they are good or not good, not just giving a dog a bad name!.....
Furthermore, for those NOT mechanically minded, then shell out for hydraulic brakes, as they are for many (but not for all!), easier to set up! Or go to an LBS for your brake adjustments.
Poor quality disks may have some effect on the apparent braking properties as well, though I have little experience in that area myself.
Though I have mentioned a few times that a metalurgist, whould not fit them the way many people do, even bike shops and manufacturers to!!
regards for a great weekend
Andy
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To elaborate more on these wonderful (sic) brakes. I had no end of trouble with them. The major being when I was coming down a hill and the brakes failed to grip. I had them looked at 3 times by cycle technicians who adjusted them as well as myself adjusting them daily. When I spoke to the company who sold me the bike they were adamant that the brakes would need adjusting but I wouldn’t of thought this a problem but I was doing it daily
I have now changed to line actuated hydraulic brakes as one of my front brake pads actually fell out of the calliper. When I got the brakes changed we found there was no pin holding the brakes in just magnets. I am going to be writing a letter to the company to explain this and hopefully compensate me for the dodgy brakes.
I have now changed to line actuated hydraulic brakes as one of my front brake pads actually fell out of the calliper. When I got the brakes changed we found there was no pin holding the brakes in just magnets. I am going to be writing a letter to the company to explain this and hopefully compensate me for the dodgy brakes.
"Once set up properly"
That is something i've heard about every single brake since the mid 80's lol. The anti V mob, canti fanboys claimed the exact same thing that cantis were just as good as V's, if set up properly when in fact the difference in power and stopping was stark. V's to discs we heard the exact same arguments. Bike forums full of arguing users and always thee same phrase if set up properly was their banner call lol.
There are better mechanical discs out there. These cost more obviously. They are slighly better and address some of the problems single sided and cable only disc brakes face, but again cannot - Repeat Cannot be compared to hydraulics.
The problems with most mechanical systems is theyre maintenance hungry, prone to power drop off, and really really unsuitable for anything other than a gentle bimble along the roads at 10mph.
Nowadays only those who live in a rose tinted fantasy world use the 'Properly set up' silliness.
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So fine for at least 98% of the world's cyclists who never reach the terrifying speeds of over 15 mph.
Probably why some 98% of all bicycles have mechanical brakes and rim brakes ok for most of them.
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I only have one bike (a tandem) with a mechanical disk brake. It's a TRP Spyke on the rear wheel and works very well. Adjustment took quite a bit of time and fiddling about with caliper alignment to get right, but once set up it has been very consistent. The twin piston design of the TRP was a big improvement over the single piston Tektro which was fitted originally.
I have never used hydraulic disk brakes, so can't comment on their effectiveness. To some extent, I feel hydraulic brakes on a bicycle smacks a little of a solution looking for a problem. My Shimano Ultegra dual-pivot rim brakes were quite capable of stopping my 1990's era racing bike from circa 50mph on descents. Perhaps hydraulic disks would have been even better, but I had no 'moments' with traditional brakes.
For me, dual pivot, v-brakes or cantilevers have provided more than enough stopping power with smooth modulation, so I've never felt the need to 'upgrade' to hydraulic. I am not denying that hydraulic may be better, but I've never found any of the other brake types particularly lacking in performance or ease of operation. I'd pick a V-brake over a cantilever for simple set up and overall better performance.
I probably am in the 'mechanically competent' category though and I do tend to (over?) maintain all my machinery to a fairly decent standard.
I have never used hydraulic disk brakes, so can't comment on their effectiveness. To some extent, I feel hydraulic brakes on a bicycle smacks a little of a solution looking for a problem. My Shimano Ultegra dual-pivot rim brakes were quite capable of stopping my 1990's era racing bike from circa 50mph on descents. Perhaps hydraulic disks would have been even better, but I had no 'moments' with traditional brakes.
For me, dual pivot, v-brakes or cantilevers have provided more than enough stopping power with smooth modulation, so I've never felt the need to 'upgrade' to hydraulic. I am not denying that hydraulic may be better, but I've never found any of the other brake types particularly lacking in performance or ease of operation. I'd pick a V-brake over a cantilever for simple set up and overall better performance.
I probably am in the 'mechanically competent' category though and I do tend to (over?) maintain all my machinery to a fairly decent standard.
Indeed, that's how most of the world cycles. Multi millions in Africa, India, China and most of the other Oriental countries, with South America, the Netherlands and Denmark often the same. If you think 10 mph slow, look at the Japanese grandmas who often cycle. For them it's around 6 mph, just enough to stay balanced.
Lots of cyclists Lycra clad, helmeted, grim faced with loads of effort is very much a uniquely British thing, and only since the 1980s since they never used to cycle that way in earlier decades.
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That must be the reason Britain is the country it is. A little island, which rose to the top of the world.
British company Hope Technology, famed for their disc brakes and hubs, are industry leaders.
British Company Endura, known for their clothing, also are world leaders supplying a vast number of mountain bikers across the planet.
Can you name an Indian, or African, or Chinese company which holds such a reputation. I think not.
British company Hope Technology, famed for their disc brakes and hubs, are industry leaders.
British Company Endura, known for their clothing, also are world leaders supplying a vast number of mountain bikers across the planet.
Can you name an Indian, or African, or Chinese company which holds such a reputation. I think not.
l didn't say cable disc brakes were as good as hydraulics, they're not.
What l meant was, once l set up my cable disc brakes properly (so the pads were aligned with the discs, cables adjusted, disc as close as possible to the inside pad) they worked well.
Before that, they were poor, and l looked at changing them. Now, they work well. Not as well as hydraulic, but they're okay.
I am the reverse of that in the 80's I was indeed the grim faced lycra clad, lots of effort cyclist. Now, when riding back from the farm shop on my ex post office bike, dressed in whatever I put on when I got up, 6 miles an hour will suffice. So my sturmey archer drum brakes are ideal.
Back in the late 70s and 80s, I used to bimble along on the roads at 20mph+, indeed on one ocaision was stopped by the Police, to be fair I was going over 30mph in a built up area. But speed limits did not apply.
The side pull brakes on my 27" wheeled road bike were definetly capable of locking the wheels, the main stoping issue was the friction between tyre and road.
OK, so hydraulics are good, but that does not make all the brakes that were safely used for many many years before the hydraulics suddenly 'usuitable'.
By force of arms and slavery. With that empire gone we have only been failing ever since.
Of course not, there's no market for such things for most of the world!
As for Hope and Endura, don't make me laugh. Most of the world won't even know who they are. They haven't exactly rescued our economy, in permanent decline from 1950 to today and still failing.
To succeed we need to make the things the whole world wants, as China does.
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they made things that people made in their own countries and often of worse quality but sold them for a lot less. Over time, that lead to economy of scale and gradual improvements on both cost and quality, then onto innovations.
Good post.
My experiences are similar to yours, and I find them to be true of several brake problems (other too!) I was involved with, over some years, for people that did not have the foggiest of ideas.....
It constantly surprises me, even today, just how little some bike owners know about bikes of any type...... I am still first call for several people, mostly older Ladies, for when ANYTHING goes wrong with their bikes.
Brakes are probably the single most important part on any bike.....
I feel that most of us accept that cars are not understood by the majority of drivers, made worse by modern electronics and the like of course....but bikes are relatively simpler, IMHO, if you take the time to learn! Many don't, so your statement for me rings very true.....
regards for a great day
Andy
Absolutely agree - I find it quite amazing how little some people know about basic machinery and how to operate / fix it. What tends to get on my nerves a bit is the lack of effort (by some people) to try and understand & resolve a problem. I like the phrase: 'I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you'
Yours grumpily ......
I know you didn't. I was replying to Lightnings post. Hence me quoting it specifically lol
Nope, dont think anyones claimed that any were unsafe. They had their flaws.
I initially used cantis - XT, but offroad they werent that good, in the dry yes they stopped you, but in the wet they didnt. I went from there to XTR V brakes, on ceramic rims, which gave better performance in the wet, if you didnt mind the shushshshsh sound.
But in offroad settings bitd we weren't moving at 25+mph
I've followed the developments of the canti. The different types, the small changes - for example the cable which first was seriously thickened, pre stretched, spring assists all developments designed to try to improve the power that was ok for general riding, but as the sport was developing, as peoples skills and confidence increased, we needed more reliable power in all weather conditions.
Cable stretch and give has always been a problem. Hydraulic has no effect like that, which is one of the main reasons hydraulics are used for braking systems, and not just on bicycles, but on cars, motorbike and other vehicles.
If you want a good example of how bad cable brakes were back in the day, go to you tube and watch the early XC racing. Most riders miss the turn and end up in the bushes or off the course because their brakes just didnt have the power to stop them effectively. Its actually quite funny to watch. And I've been there and done that, got the tshirt, and the bruises And all of those brakes were 'properly set up'.
Where did it go from there ?, what did the pros do, what systems did they use to combat the problem. Literally to a team they went onto magura hydraulic rim crushers. And from there to hydraulic disc brakes.
.But the problem here i feel is people like to hate. Its a holier than thou attitude. We don't use those they say in a dismissive sort of way. And to me who has ridden all the systems in a variety of situations, i find such attitude quite frankly ridiculous.
I pick and ride the safest option. Speed is nothing without control.
Current brakes are shimano 4 pots, which for pottering are pretty much ok.I like the way the price has come down and the power has gone up. But i'm changing those to Hopes new Tech 4 V4's on the thicker Ebike orientated rotors, and for the simple reason is that its a better development reflecting the ridding were doing, the increased weight of the bikes, the higher speeds people are reaching.
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