Wisper Brake Squeal Driving Me Crazy

[chris301up]

Evening peeps. Finally got myself a Wisper Works 705SE Step-Through and, considering it is over 10 years old, there is hardly a mark on it. However, the brake blocks were a little worn so decided, as a matter of course, to change them for Clarkes, but they 'squeal' badly upon use. Maybe these are a miss-match in some way? But I have used these many times in the past on other bikes without issue. I have tried everything I know in an attempt to sort this problem, including decontaminating the rims with isopropyl alcohol, 'shimming' the brake lever mounting bolts, roughing the block surfaces and 'toeing in' the blocks, but nothing improves the problem. I have now refitted the original brake blocks for the time being. I know they need to 'bed in' but after a week or so I would've expected some improvement. But no! Anyone have an idea what could cause this? Thanks

 

[guerney]

I use those exact blocks and the only time they squealed was when my rims were brand new and covered in totally smooth black paint. Once the paint wore away, it stopped.

 

[PC2017]

Jagwire is what I use, yes Clarks have squealed for me in the past, best to watch a couple of different YT vids on the subject, don't forget they have to point inwards at an angle, only a slight angle, either angle to the front/forward or back; try either way, I can not remember the tech term for it, but it is tricky to get the knack. "Park tool" vids or "RJ the bike guy". I always watch with AD blocker and at 1.25 speed.

If I get some use out of their vids, I go back to the vid & disable AD block and play muted & do other tasks, wash pots etc, they might just get a cent or 2 of Ad revenue hopefully or there is "Super Thanks" to chuck em a quid or 2 if they really helped; only if I am flush. Some argue a quid is 98% more than they would get from AD rev, however YT and TAX man take a cut & then there is exchange rate for $$.

 

[saneagle]

Did you try putting the pads both ways round? The arrow on them is stupid. It says "forwards". What does that mean - forwards relative to the wheel or forwards relative to the bike? Some bikes have the brake in a horizontal position, so it would be up or down.

Without seeing that arrow, I'd put the block in with the red bit towards the back of the bike so that the wheel passes that end first.

 

[Raboa]

Are you toei g the brake blocks in? The back of the brake block need to be out further than the front. When the brakes are pressed against the rim at speed the block will become level due to the braking forces. Undo the bolt, put a small of card onto the back of the brake block, press against the rim and tighten bolt. You can buy tools that help this process Hope this helps

 

[saneagle]

Toeing in is a waste of time. The blocks will just wear faster until they're flat. On an electric bike, they wear very fast.

 

[guerney]

isopropyl alcohol

That degrades rubber, avoid getting any on tyres.

Until the rubber is completely worn through, so that what remains of the block ie the metal scrapes the metal rim (it's happened), Clarke's are easier on rims than most. Some other brands feature rubber compunds which contain ceramic particles to increase friction - I suspect the OP's original blocks wore the rims very smooth, and Clarke's simply need more time to wear the rims. Rim abrasion will increase with accumulated road dirt, friction will change because of oily road grime, therefore I'd avoid cleaning the wheels until squealing stops. My wheels are permanently filty, so I never enounter this problem unless I buy new rims covered in totally smooth paint.

 

[guerney]

You can buy tools that help this process Hope this helps

Thanks for the reminder, as I've been meaning to try some tool to speed up fitting the darn things, so I've ordered these. They might have a slight toe-in, which I don't need, but it appears they may prevent blocks being fitted so that they rub against the tyre (annoying).

Pardon our interruption...

 

[saneagle]

Thanks for the reminder, as I've been meaning to try some tool to speed up fitting the darn things, so I've ordered these. They might have a slight toe-in, which I don't need, but it appears they may prevent blocks being fitted so that they rub against the tyre (annoying).

Pardon our interruption...

Jeez, you guys¡ What's wrong with your fingers? By the time you've remembered where you put those things and went to get them, you could've been done.

 

[guerney]

Jeez, you guys¡ What's wrong with your fingers?

It's my eyes! Aaaargggh my eeeeeyyyyeeees!

 

[saneagle]

It's my eyes! Aaaargggh my eeeeeyyyyeeees!

You still have to look and adjust. The only difference is that you have to wiggle the brake block and that thing into position instead of just the brake block. Anyway, don't let me spoil your fun.

Have you got a chain wear tool yet? With one of those, you can have hours of fun checking and replacing your chain when you don't need to.

Spoke tension tool as well. You can spend many happy evenings checking and adjusting your spokes so that you don't have enough time to spoil your setup by riding your bike.

That just leaves the derailleur hanger alignment checker and the bottom bracket outer face squareness tools. Actually, a frame alignment jig might help too. You'd be surprised how far out of line some frames are, and yours might be one of them. Sorry to scare you, but it's only about £1000 for the set, and it's got to be worth it.

Frame and Fork Alignment Fixtures

Frame and Fork Alignment Fixtures These tools, when used in conjunction with Stein Dropout Alignment tools, provide a reliable and accurate way to align forks and rear triangles of steel bicycle frames. Continuing where dropout tools alone leave off, these tools provide the ability to see the...

steintool.com

 

[chris301up]

You still have to look and adjust. The only difference is that you have to wiggle the brake block and that thing into position instead of just the brake block. Anyway, don't let me spoil your fun.

Have you got a chain wear tool yet? With one of those, you can have hours of fun checking and replacing your chain when you don't need to.

Spoke tension tool as well. You can spend many happy evenings checking and adjusting your spokes so that you don't have enough time to spoil your setup by riding your bike.

That just leaves the derailleur hanger alignment checker and the bottom bracket outer face squareness tools. Actually, a frame alignment jig might help too. You'd be surprised how far out of line some frames are, and yours might be one of them. Sorry to scare you, but it's only about £1000 for the set, and it's got to be worth it.

Frame and Fork Alignment Fixtures

Frame and Fork Alignment Fixtures These tools, when used in conjunction with Stein Dropout Alignment tools, provide a reliable and accurate way to align forks and rear triangles of steel bicycle frames. Continuing where dropout tools alone leave off, these tools provide the ability to see the...

steintool.com

Thank you for all the replies guys. Sorry I didn't respond earlier to individual replies. As mentioned many, many times in the past I never get notifications of replies to my posts. Its sooooooo annoying and difficult to keep track of everything.

Just an update. I removed the cantilevers today and gave them a good clean. Refitted them with some copper-ease (my preferred lubrication) and fitted some more 'shims' onto the mounting bolts so there isn't any unwanted forward or backward movement. Refitted the Clarkes brake pads in their correct order and direction and 'toed' them in slightly using some card between the brake pad and rim. There is still a slight squealing in use, especially from the front brakes, but overall I think it may have improved slightly?

We are off on our hols so don't have time to tinker with the beast now so am hoping that this annoying squealing will diminish over time once in use and the brake blocks have 'bedded in'? I'll try to keep you posted once I return and start using her again. Thanks again everyone!

 

[PC2017]

toei g the brake blocks

Toe-in that was it, I had shoe-in in my head, but that's when you know you have the job...

 

[PC2017]

Toeing in is a waste of time. The blocks will just wear faster until they're flat. On an electric bike, they wear very fast.

I do toe-in for front V-brake, but I mav-rigged a hydraulic pro-bike v-brake on the rear & they are flat mount pads with no option to adjust, the lever is spongy has hell but after 3 years they still work, the pads 12 months old and still going. Amazing for gradual stopping & full on emergency brake with front combined.

There was some dude the other day on the foot bridge, I kept well clear, as he had no brakes and there's a sharp down slop at the end, funny as, his head nearly got stuck in the railings at the bottom.

 

[chris301up]

It's my eyes! Aaaargggh my eeeeeyyyyeeees!

What's wrong with your eyes?

 

[guerney]

What's wrong with your eyes?

Central serous chorioretinopathy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As with many mysterious ailments they don't know why it happens and there's no cure, and it usually happens to airline pilots... I blame long hours viewing bright blue light from LED monitors at work. CSR is the new RSI for IT workers.

If you look at this Amsler grid with one eye and all the lines appear straight, you don't have it in that eye. Also if you don't see big stationary black insect shaped spots.

I don't have AMD, but the self-test is the same:

Straight lines appear kinky when viewed with one eye, with different kinks each eye, but the brain straightens them out when viewed with both. The black spots obscure vision for about an hour in the morning especially, inconveniently in middle vision, then it goes away until I engage in anything strenuous. Jogging improves matters, after the black spots go away. Someday there will be glasses available preprogrammed to correct the kinks for each eye. My retinas could rupture or swelling could reduce, but kinks will remain. Doesn't affect cycling, because my ebike is set up to not require any effort whatsoever.

Bet you're sorry you asked lol!

 

[guerney]

BTW I ordered these yesterday, which (allegedly) can have pads replaced without having to adjust the brakes all over again:

Clarks MTB V-Type Brake Pads Triple Compound 70mm, Elite - CPS955 CNC | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Clarks MTB V-Type Brake Pads Triple Compound 70mm, Elite - CPS955 CNC at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[saneagle]

BTW I ordered these yesterday, which (allegedly) can have pads replaced without having to adjust the brakes all over again:

Clarks MTB V-Type Brake Pads Triple Compound 70mm, Elite - CPS955 CNC | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Clarks MTB V-Type Brake Pads Triple Compound 70mm, Elite - CPS955 CNC at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

The only problem is that when you wheel the bike out of your shed backwards and accidentally touch the brakes, you realise how well that idea works when you get half-way down your first hill.

 

[guerney]

The only problem is that when you wheel the bike out of your shed backwards and accidentally touch the brakes, you realise how well that idea works when you get half-way down your first hill.

Only ordered those because replacement pads were sent to me in error, thought it'd try this type out rather than pay for postage and go through the pfaff of returning the pads for a refund. Besides, minimal adjustment at pad replacement time seems a good timesaver, and replacement pads are cheap. I can't wheel my bike backwards - chain falls off lol. Weirdly, it's perfectly happy going forwards. The tiny retaining pins inspire confidence, and the reviews I saw weren't bad.

 

[saneagle]

Only ordered those because replacement pads were sent to me in error, thought it'd try this type out rather than pay for postage and go through the pfaff of returning the pads for a refund. Besides, minimal adjustment at pad replacement time seems a good timesaver. I can't wheel my bike backwards - chain falls off lol. Weirdly, it's perfectly happy going forwards. The tiny retaining pins inspire confidence, and the reviews I saw weren't bad.

They'll be fine. All brake pads were like that when I was young and bikes had those side-pull brakes.

Pardon our interruption...

www.ebay.co.uk