Brake calipers quality

[matthewslack]

All great braes and at good price, but of no use to Wayners. He is looking for rim brakes.

I understand that, but many readers of this thread may like the related but not exactly aligned info!

I had been looking for 4 pot brakes, and had missed the latest wiggle until @AndyBike's post above.

 

[Az.]

I understand that, but many readers of this thread may like the related but not exactly aligned info!

Shimano Deore MT501 Disc Brake | Wiggle

Buy your Shimano Deore MT501 Disc Brake from our Brakes range at Wiggle. £27.99. Free delivery available.

www.wiggle.com

£16.99 - great value for money

 

[saneagle]

When Wayners built his bike, I'm pretty sure he was given links to forks with disc mounts. It's not a big deal to change, but probably a better idea to get a new donor with disc brakes and swap the kit over. You can get them for £40 - £60 from Facebook ads. There is absolutely no point in fitting magura hydraulic rim brakes or any other upgrade to the present brakes. You're just polishing a turd, and for less money, you can get a donor with disc brakes, which would be a much better solution.

 

[chris667]

You're just polishing a turd, and for less money, you can get a donor with disc brakes, which would be a much better solution.

Respectfully, I disagree.

Magura rim brakes can be really excellent for the right situation. Light, and once they're set up they're brilliant. The pads literally snap in and out when it's time to replace them.

I would have no qualms about riding on Maguras. Not the best if you're riding in environments where there's a lot of abrasive mud, but perfectly adequate in daily use. They were designed for utility bikes and they do that job very well.

 

[saneagle]

Respectfully, I disagree.

Magura rim brakes can be really excellent for the right situation. Light, and once they're set up they're brilliant. The pads literally snap in and out when it's time to replace them.

I would have no qualms about riding on Maguras. Not the best if you're riding in environments where there's a lot of abrasive mud, but perfectly adequate in daily use. They were designed for utility bikes and they do that job very well.

It doesn't make sense. for the same price, you can buy a really nice MTB with hydraulic brakes that are 100 times better and safer:

Carrera Vengeance Limited Edition XC Spec Mountain Bike Hydraulic Disc Brakes | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Carrera Vengeance Limited Edition XC Spec Mountain Bike Hydraulic Disc Brakes at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[chris667]

for the same price, you can buy a really nice MTB with hydraulic brakes that are 100 times better and safer:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/404653695021?hash=item5e373d602d:g:pvMAAOSwDMFk7ut8&amdata=enc:AQAIAAAAwNh72Cys0faToBk1i8vCg0QZZ1de6Pp2AzAE/W7+i8D98ab4Ojj/B1ljLfYfPQGjujo1XWGfpWeHqfDzpSW6STtvKtDfmZncwFsqGgmzOKKvN8Z25Pmz0RtYlvqqFTGCJjxohfujRpoN4Ul3zlPmEkaDrS1+Y9k454tQdiLQQXA1JN/pw/yh39+4T1ZIb5/4yX9DamlRgHzdi0SIaZpYE/twj0yjOFhiE+5wufiM+t7MCIBfyouJOlZympi6mTH8oA==|tkp:Bk9SR76V-c2eYw

The Maguras will still be working exactly like they have always done when the bike you've linked to is scrap. That's the point of them - they are utterly reliable, you don't have to think about them once they're fitted.

I would always have a rigid steel fork over a cheap suspension fork as well, as it happens. You've linked to a cheap bike and not one I'd recommend for general transport - if it's doing normal road/commuting duties use it will not stop better or be any safer than a bike with Maguras. Maguras are really excellent brakes which is why so many long distance tourers still have them.

 

[saneagle]

The Maguras will still be working exactly like they have always done when the bike you've linked to is scrap. That's the point of them - they are utterly reliable, you don't have to think about them once they're fitted.

I would always have a rigid steel fork over a cheap suspension fork as well, as it happens. You've linked to a cheap bike and not one I'd recommend for general transport - if it's doing normal road/commuting duties use it will not stop better or be any safer than a bike with Maguras. Maguras are really excellent brakes which is why so many long distance tourers still have them.

The modulation is poor, they wear the rims fast, which can be dangerous, and aluminium rims get contaminated, which can make the brakes grabby.

That ebay bike is just an example. You can get a bike with rigid forks for even less. there are loads to choose from however you want one.

 

[Wayners]

Just for information.
I've got a specialised MTB here I paid £80 for ready to convert with disc mounts. Just need to buy e-bike kit and disc brakes.

My current bike I use everyday and works fine although I'd like better brakes. They work ok but a fiddle to setup. I was asking as plenty of second hand v brake calipers available but my question was is it worth £25ish or just stick with my cheap Clarks set?
I can't justify £200 on a new bike when I got other things needing my money like holiday and new windows. Cost of living has hit me a bit so I've gone tight. Counting pennies. Ha.

If you are minted I'd grab a cheap bike though. Bargains to be had.

I've spent over £200 on parts over last 12 months but that's my choice as I enjoyed tinkering and nothing for sale at sensible money this time last year like there is today

 

[saneagle]

Just for information.
I've got a specialised MTB here I paid £80 for ready to convert with disc mounts. Just need to buy e-bike kit and disc brakes.

My current bike I use everyday and works fine although I'd like better brakes. They work ok but a fiddle to setup. I was asking as plenty of second hand v brake calipers available but my question was is it worth £25ish or just stick with my cheap Clarks set?
I can't justify £200 on a new bike when I got other things needing my money like holiday and new windows. Cost of living has hit me a bit so I've gone tight. Counting pennies. Ha.

If you are minted I'd grab a cheap bike though. Bargains to be had.

I've spent over £200 on parts over last 12 months but that's my choice as I enjoyed tinkering and nothing for sale at sensible money this time last year like there is today

Don't through any more money at it. You will only polish a turd. Some brake pads work better than others. when your present ones wear out, try some different ones to see if they're any better. You might get an improvement, but i never found any that gave consistent braking. The best way to improve braking with rim brakes is to lose weight, so go on a diet. That will save you money and get better braking - win, win!

 

[Wayners]

@saneagle

I was around 16 stone but 2 years ago I dropped to 12st 8. 38 waist at one point. Good grief! Now 34/36 depending..
I'm 13st 3 at the moment but it was Christmas. Ha.
My weight will drop a little over next few months.

Re breaks.
I use clarkes 72mm pads. They are good value and have lasted 2 months so far. I think I'll get another 2 months out of them. 5 pairs in stock.

 

[chris667]

The modulation is poor, they wear the rims fast, which can be dangerous, and aluminium rims get contaminated, which can make the brakes grabby.

That is not borne out by the experience of hundreds of thousands of miles of utility riding and touring. If they were not effective brakes, they would not still be specced on any number of high-end touring and utility bikes.

They will do the job admirably. For a bike used on road in practice they'll be better than many cheap discs, there's less maintenance and they will last longer.

@Wayners I apologise - this is not much help to you. Maguras are rather expensive brakes.

But if your bike has v-brakes and your hub and fork are designed for rim brakes, discs are an expensive upgrade. I would just replace pads, keep everything clean and not worry about it. My bike has v-brakes and it's fine.

 

[saneagle]

That is not borne out by the experience of hundreds of thousands of miles of utility riding and touring. If they were not effective brakes, they would not still be specced on any number of high-end touring and utility bikes.

You won't find them on many decent bikes today. I can't say I've ever seen them on an MTB, nor any road bike. IMHO, they have no place on an electric bike.

 

[chris667]

You won't find them on many decent bikes today.

Kalkhoff, Gazelle, Tout Terrain, VSF and Oxford Bike works all make bikes with Magura rim brakes. There are others, but those are off the top of my head.

You won't find them on cheap bikes like the one you linked to above, because they're not cheap. It's the same reason you don't often see a Brooks saddle on a new off-the-peg bike.

 

[Bikes4two]

Kalkhoff, Gazelle, Tout Terrain, VSF and Oxford Bike works all make bikes with Magura rim brakes. There are others, but those are off the top of my head.

You won't find them on cheap bikes like the one you linked to above, because they're not cheap. It's the same reason you don't often see a Brooks saddle on a new off-the-peg bike.

+1 for all that you say about the Maguras - 15 years on our tandem but not too many miles (10,000 maybe) - never had to bleed them, have changed the blocks a couple of times and the rims don't look to be worn and my iWanson guage shows there's plenty of life left in them and the modulation seems absolutely fine to me.

As for hydraulic brakes being 'hundreds times better' that is most certainly NOT my experience.

Expensive of course but the tandem 15 years ago was £3,5k all in (a Santos with Rohloff fitted) so not outrageous/ If you're luck, uou can sometimes find them second hand.

 

[Az.]

Maguras - 15 years on our tandem but not too many miles (10,000 maybe) - never had to bleed them, have changed the blocks a couple of times and the rims don't look to be worn and my iWanson guage shows there's plenty of life left in them and the modulation seems absolutely fine to me.

That is a valuable recommendation, but price of HS33s is eyewatering.

 

[saneagle]

Kalkhoff, Gazelle, Tout Terrain, VSF and Oxford Bike works all make bikes with Magura rim brakes. There are others, but those are off the top of my head.

See, I'm right. I knew you'd eventually agree.

 

[guerney]

My current bike I use everyday and works fine although I'd like better brakes. They work ok but a fiddle to setup. I was asking as plenty of second hand v brake calipers available but my question was is it worth £25ish or just stick with my cheap Clarks set?

By "Fiddle to set up" do you mean whenever you change brake pads? Having to set things up all over again all fiddly like was why I bought V-brake pads with in-place replaceable pads, which you've reported are a bit thin - I haven't tried mine yet, but the prospect of going through brake pads even faster than I presently am is annoying. If the calipers work ok, why change them? My Dahon Helios has Dahon calipers, which work well. No disc brake option on my bike, but so long as the bike skids whenever I brake hard, I feel this is ok. It's especially worrying whenever I cannot stop at traffic lights, but I usually get around to replacing brake pads before things gets that bad (but not always).

The bike I found dumped in the nature reserve has Clark levers and calipers, the levers are shorter than the ones included in my BBS01B conversion kit, so perhaps more force would have to be exerted to get the same braking effect? That'd be annoying on a ebike, would certainly give a negative impression of the brakes.

Clark brake lever length: 76.2mm

Bafang brake lever length: 120.2mm

 

[guerney]

I am glad to see your brakes are performing well. I think one of the reasons your brakes work so well is because the pads are parallel to the rims and move horizontally and accurately towards the rim, ensuring even wear on both the pads and rim.
I have replaced many worn out rims with ordinary 'v' brakes and in all cases the rim is not worn flat but is'concave'. The rim wears quickly in the middle and at a vulnerable point that causes the wall to splay out or sometimes crack. Ordinary 'v' brake calipers pivot and move the blocks in a slight circular movement rather than purely horizontal, the blocks/pads often have a slight vertical movement as well as inwards and this changes as the pads wear and causes uneven wear in both pads and rims.
View attachment 55822

View attachment 55823

Very interesting post. How thin should I allow a rim to get, before changing it?

 

[AndyBike]

Wayners has no disc brake mounts on his frame.

The one in the link is a front brake.

BITD when discs first made an appearance,before frame makers caught up and started putting mounts on frames we had disc on the front, and V's on the rear.

Back then in them olden days, the only way to fit a rear disc was to use a Hope No2 caliper, which mounted to the frame via a mount that bolted onto the non drive dropout. A Hope hub with an axle shortened to 122mm slotted into part of that dropout mount, an XL skewer(same one used for Hope tandem rears) was used to hold the whole thing together.

Pic of my old Orange Clockwork.using that system.

After that they developed an IS mount that used the same axle/dropout attachment but allowed another caliper sizes to be fitted(The No2 caliper could only be used with a Hope 155mm rotor). Pic 2 is that system mounted to my Ti Raleigh Torus

Pretty much after that point manufacturers started fitting IS mounts onto frames. In the early days it was actually Hope mechanical cable disc calipers that pretty much started the whole shebang in the UK.

Pic 3 showing a 2nd generation Hope mechanical cable brake( from my early hope collection). That was fitted by hooking on to the front hub and clamping around the fork leg.

 

[Wayners]

@guerney

Current Clarks brakes I have adjustment screw (tension) all the way in on one side and fully out on the other which is odd but they are balanced. I'm not happy with that. I adjust every couple of weeks.
Re removable pads. They are holding up well so far but I'm not convinced they are a better option. I've adjusted seating a few times when fixing puncture or to get better performance so I question the benefits? If I slide in new pads im going to have to adjust seating ect. Definitely try yours though.

Interesting thread this. I'm going to read through when I get chance. Currently on a work course and my head is spinning with information. Ha
It's nice this information stays though unlike the information in my brain.