Bosch Powerpack 300, tech help needed

[Indigodee]

I just managed to pick up a new in the box Powerpack 300 battery, and I want to use it with my x-byke,
I was hoping that maybe somebody here, flecc maybe, might be able to help with the pinout of this battery!
I will be looking to buy a 36 v lithium charger, and will hopefully be convertinting it to charge the bosch! As I've done on other packs for my sons wisper.
As it doesn't have a separate charging socket, it obviously charges from the five pins on the bottom of the battery, I just don't know which yet, as I haven't dismantled it as yet.
So, any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance, Dee

 

[Artstu]

To makea start on the issues you face my Bosch charger gives 5 volts to the centre pin when not connected to the battery.

 

[Martin@e-bikeshop]

One of the pins is a communicator pin, this talks to the BOSCH charger, so there may be another hurdle to jump too. I believe when fully charged it re-communicates every 48hrs to check the state.

Also the BMS communicates to the motor when connected to the bike. Not sure how it will work without this communication back.

Why go through the expense of a more sophisticated Bosch powerpack when you can get a more basic 36v pack that will be easier to connect up to the x-byke..

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Unfortunately, if you want to use that battery, you have to change the BMS.

 

[Indigodee]

Thanks for all replies, I may as d8veh reckons change the bms, there are a few on eBay that look like they'll do the job, 40 cell 10s4p but they come from china! So not sure whether I will be hit with duty at the border!
From what I can gather so far, the charger supplies 5v to the centre pin, and 42v to the + and - on pins 2/4.
I'm wondering now, what possible info the bosch motor would be communicating back to the battery, perhaps current consumption? Or maybe a pulse from the torque sensor? In which case maybe I could add a simple pulse generator?
As for the reason for buying it, well, I got it for £50!! Who could say no?
It would be good if I could adapt the BMS that is in it, but can't find a schematic anywhere. But like I say for £50 I got 40 samsung 2000mah 18650 cells for that! Where else could you get that I'm not in a rush as it stands so if I can find more info, I may or may not sort it, and in the mean time I'll order the bms from China, which will probably take a few weeks with delivery, unless anyone knows of a uk source for bms?
Again thanks to all who replied and if anyone else has info it would be appreciated.
Dee

 

[Indigodee]

Further to recent post, I forgot to mention, that no voltage is present on pins 2 and 4 unless the charge indicator button is pushed! So I think the 5v to centre pin is needed to tell bms of charger presence.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The communication requires CANbus protocol. I've no idea how it works exactly, but you'd probably have to make a device that addresses the BMS properly and does the right handshaking to enable it.

If you had the correct Bosch charger, you could bypass the BMS output controls by taking the output directly from the cell-pack.

Wiyhout the charger, you need to fit your own BMS, which is not normally that difficult. You just need a 10S one with a maximum output of about 25A. You won't have to pay duty on it. Make sure you get one with the balance connector. Some don't do balancing.

 

[Indigodee]

Thanks d8veh, I'm not sure about canbus either. So I'll just get a bms and replace it , should fit in the case ok, the only issue I can see is the cells are connected to the bms via a ribbon cable, so I'm not sure if I'd be able to re-use it, in which case I'll just have to rewire it. Still, it'll still be the cheapest
li-on battery pack of quality. Thanks for the help, though, and I wonder if you know anything about the Dapu motor used on the wisper bikes. It has the phase wires, and another 6 wires which correspond to a hall sensor colours, except! It has an extra white wire, which I'm presuming is a speed sensor, perhaps pulsed to the controller. Again I got two of em new for £30
So couldn't say no could I? Lol

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I'm pretty sure that the ninth (white) wire is connected to a speed sensor.

You can use half of this cable to connect the motor to a standard controller.

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-parts/439-a-pair-of-9pin-waterproof-male-female-connector-cable-for-motor-parts.html

Is it a front motor or rear one? I have it at the back of my mind that there might be a compatibility issue with some controllers.

 

[Indigodee]

They are front wheels, I've tried connecting it up to a standard hall sense controller and left white open, but nothing, I wasn't sure if it needed a specific controller with the extra connection, or if it went to a speed sensor attached to the fork/spokes. They don't seem to have been around very long dapu motors, but they are very neat units, and well engineered, they open via a threaded plate instead of the usual screws and gasket. I haven't been able to find any tech info on them so not totally sure what to do with em yet.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The white wire doesn't in any way affect the operation of the motor. IIRC, the compatibility issue might be the phase/hall wire sequence. You can't necessarily connect colour to colour, so you need to find the correct sequence. There's thirty six possible combinations. I would start by going colour to colour except with the yellow and blue hall wires swapped over on one side. Only use a small amount of throttle until it runs properly.