Bosch performance motor error 500 and taking online purchased bike to a local bike shop.

[Wander]

The bike industry needs to adapt to current customers needs.

There is nothing naive about a customer wanting to buy a product and expect good service.

In general, the cycle industry has its head buried in the sand. It needs to adapt to changing demands and expectations. I'm old enough to know what happens if manufacturers fail to recognise change.

It needs to change.

Agreed, nothing naive in what the customer wants. Naive in expecting to get it in this industry.

Maybe you are right about what the cycling industry needs to adapt, maybe wrong, but currently that's the way it is.

Personally I often pay 'full price' for something rather than trawl the internet for the cheapest option knowing that I am supporting a small business & that they will be there for me later. In fact the more expensive the item is that I'm buying the less likely am I to go for the cheapest option.

 

[flecc]

The bike industry needs to adapt to current customers needs.

There is nothing naive about a customer wanting to buy a product and expect good service.

In general, the cycle industry has its head buried in the sand. It needs to adapt to changing demands and expectations. I'm old enough to know what happens if manufacturers fail to recognise change.

It needs to change.

The problem is that bike shops cannot survive on repair work, sales of bikes, accessories and spares are absolutely essential and the internet has messed that up. Already we are losing LBSs and it will get worse.

We went through this before in the late 1960s and 1970s. That was due to bike sales slumping as people got better off and switched to cars, scooters and motorbikes. Many thousands of LBSs shut down across the country since bike repair work alone couldn't earn enough. It wasn't until the mountain bike boom of the 1980s on that they were able to return.

There seems to be upset about the £40 charge, but in fact it was likely to be reasonable and that is where naivety was. It isn't just a labour charge for the 15 minutes you mentioned, it's for the entire operation and to cover the gross costs of labour, premises, insurances, local and national taxes and all other commercial costs.
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[Doomanic]

To think that small independent businesses should, or even could, operate in the same manner as nationwide companies is naive. If they could, you wouldn't need to buy anything mail order as pricing would be the same across the country.
Bike shops selling, for example, Giant bikes, do not operate in the same way as car dealerships selling Ford (other manufacturers are available...) and the Consumer Rights Act is clear that your warranty is with the supplying retailer.
Chains like Evans and Leisure Lakes should, in theory, be able to offer local warranty if you bought from a different branch, but Bob's Bikes is under no obligation to do anything at all if you didn't buy from him.

Your rights are against the retailer (the company that sold you the product), not the manufacturer, so you must make any claim against the retailer.

 

[Mazvol]

mazvol how many miles has the bike done?
I too bought a bosch powered ebike ex dem 2016 in may last year
but my main thoughts were cost of battery replacement not the moter.

bike has only done 315miles , as I have another ebike so I could find myself out of moter warrenty, and if its £600 for a new one is just not viable.

The problem is that bike shops cannot survive on repair work, sales of bikes, accessories and spares are absolutely essential and the internet has messed that up. Already we are losing LBSs and it will get worse.

We went through this before in the late 1960s and 1970s. That was due to bike sales slumping as people got better off and switched to cars, scooters and motorbikes. Many thousands of LBSs shut down across the country since bike repair work alone couldn't earn enough. It wasn't until the mountain bike boom of the 1980s on that they were able to return.

You seem to be upset about the £40 charge, but in fact it was likely to be reasonable and that is where your naivety was. It isn't just a labour charge for the 15 minutes you mentioned, it's for the entire operation and to cover the gross costs of labour, premises, insurances, local and national taxes and all other commercial costs.
.[/QUOT
I am not upset at the price at all, I was replying to the person who said bike shops make nothing much on warranty.

I will let you know when I know the total cost, but for argument sake let's say £40 diagnostics, £40 to remove motor and £40 to fit motor + any admin charge I expect the bill to be around £125 to £150

Workshop time if all goes well and it works first time would be approx an hour total.

If you took a standard MTB to your local bike shop for a service and paid that sort of money, your bike would be cleaned down to components level and greased where necessary your shifting cables replaced, brakes serviced, wheels trued and suspension setup for you etc

I think that undoing the cranks ,taking off a locking ring, 3 screws in a plastic case , unplugging the 3 electric plugs and removing 3 bolts to the motor is less work and time than a service costing the equivalent on a non e- bike.

That is why I said about the price because if anything it looks like the local bike shops have the potential to earn more not less which should be a good thing.

 

[flecc]

I am not upset at the price at all, I was replying to the person who said bike shops make nothing much on warranty.

I will let you know when I know the total cost, but for argument sake let's say £40 diagnostics, £40 to remove motor and £40 to fit motor + any admin charge I expect the bill to be around £125 to £150

Most of my reply was to Denis and the points he made about service.

I'm not going to argue the specifics of your case since neither of us really know all the factors, but from my years in the trade and seeing all the ups and downs over 67 years I have a pretty good idea what is and is not possible. The cycle trade will never have anything approaching car style good service practice, there just isn't enough money in it for anyone to make that possible.
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[georgehenry]

When I bought my first crank drive bike (Haibike sDuro Yamaha) I was more worried about the cost of a replacement battery and how long the battery would last, rather than the motor.

I did want to buy from a local dealer and found one (ebike shop Farnham) 10 miles away from me where I was able to test ride the Bosch and Yamaha systems.

After having a few minor and some more major issues that the dealer fixed for me really quickly I would put buying from a good local dealer right at the top of my list when buying an e-bike.

They are expensive things and if anything goes wrong you get a great deal of piece of mind if you know the place you bought it from will fix it for you quickly with no drama.

This was reinforced for me when just after the expiry point of my two year warranty at 6000 miles the main bearing developed play and the dealer replaced the motor very quickly free of charge with no quibbles.

The battery which I was so worried about failing and the cost of its replacement when I bought the bike is three years old in March and still performing almost like new with no sign that it will need replacing in the near future after just over 8000 miles.

Maybe on a crank drive bike the motors are less durable/prone to wear than the batteries!

 

[Denis99]

However, some of the major cycle manufacturers are now selling direct to the public.

This is a growing trend, and will probably continue.

So where does this leave the customer?
Bikes have become increasingly more complicated, in the main any warranty work goes straight back to the manufacturer. It appears that many ( but not all), bike shops have just become shops that swap or replace part,.

Very little is solvable in the shop, droppers, e mtb motors, forks, batteries giving up the ghost, error messages.

I have supported local bike shops all my cycling life, with the one exception.

What I am trying to say, is that it seems to be changing, and unless the manufacturers and lbs get together to sort this out, then the situation will be frustrating for the buyer.

 

[soundwave]

we have a local hi end bike work shop as in they have every tool for most parts but it is about a 3 month waiting list for a service.

http://www.noahsark.co.uk/bike-service-in-gloucestershire-i51

 

[flecc]

Maybe on a crank drive bike the motors are less durable/prone to wear than the batteries!

That appears to be increasingly true for all but the Panasonic units.
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[flecc]

What I am trying to say, is that it seems to be changing, and unless the manufacturers and lbs get together to sort this out, then the situation will be frustrating for the buyer.

What you've posted here is undoubtedly true Denis, but I think the best answer is much better reliability and longevity. Deal with the cause, not the symptoms.

At present too high a proportion of e-bikes have the worst reliability of any motorised vehicle type on the roads. That has to improve, not just for the customer but for the long term future of e-biking.
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[georgehenry]

Maybe the manufacturers consider their electric bicycles more as an occasional leisure vehicle/expensive bit of bllng for people rather than a real alternative mode of transport and are getting away with it at the moment as many users do not use them hard enough to expose their fragility.

I have had my own little transport revolution by largely replacing my car journey to work with my ebike, but in so doing am travelling around 3000/3500 miles a year and have exposed the limitation of bicycle transmissions and found that when the bearing in my motor developed play, the bearing was not replaced but the whole motor, all be it free of charge by my excellent local dealer.

I may have been unlucky and the new motor may last longer than 6000 miles before the bearing needs to be replaced but it will be interesting to see what my excellent dealer suggests at that point.

There is definitely an opportunity for a motor manufacturer to produce a motor designed to last longer and where the bearing lasts a lot longer and when it eventually will wear can be replaced easily.

Also perhaps an ebike specific heavier duty chain ring, chain and wide ratio 7 speed cassette that is over engineered to cope with more power than you and the motor can produce when using high power settings rather than a bicycle one would ensure its longevity.

Maybe they are happy for you to keep buying replacement parts at regular intervals.

I personally think that 7 widely spaced gears on an ebike would be fine as the extra power of an ebike negates the need for so many closely spaced gears especially in a high milage commuter environment, and I do use mine a lot in demanding off road conditions where fundamental you will cope in almost any situation as long as you have a low enough bottom gear when you need it.

My frustration is that ebikes could provide a brilliant to work and back vehicle and general alternative to the car for shopping and any number of other local trips for very many people.

 

[footpump]

this is fine if your lucky enough to have a local ebike dealer.
all the bikes I liked were about 2k, hence the ex dem route.
I saw on the internet there were bosch trained mobile people who would come to you for repairs etc, when I looked could only find old listing for 2012.
a new cycle shop opened that sells Raleigh /orbea ebikes and is bosch trained registered 9 miles away.
how do you get your bike to the dealer you purchased bike from if miles away?

 

[flecc]

how do you get your bike to the dealer you purchased bike from if miles away?

Sometimes one just has to rise to the occasion. I had a new e-bike's motor fail at 200 miles, so drove to the round trip to the supplier to have it replaced, just over 300 miles. Written off to experience.
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[footpump]

forgot to mention do not have own transport
are there any new Panasonic equipped ebikes.
giant now seem to have synkdrive

 

[flecc]

are there any new Panasonic equipped ebikes.

No sadly. Once the Germans had their Bosch and Daum units they dropped Panasonic who were a bit more expensive.

Then the arrival of the cheap Bafang crank drives etc filled the remaining potential, leaving no way back in for Panasonic.
.

 

[Nealh]

That's why hub motors are ideal for road and light to med trail riding. Two of my 8fun hubs I have replaced the bearing/bearings cost about £3 - £12, so easy to do.

 

[Trevormonty]

Even if LBS miss out on eBike sale they will still benefit from regular maintenace. An eBike is liking to do alot more mileage than normal bike. Not every rider is capable or wants to do service work.